Who's reading what?

Was Albert Camus a better goalkeeper than George Orwell? Have your say here.
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Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:24 am

k-j wrote: China Mieville I've been meaning to read for ages... I've only read one short story and thought it was so-so. Where do I start with him, Perdido Street Station is what most people recommend?
I didn't like that one - can't quite remember why, but I think I put it in the 'gratuitously unpleasant for no real reason' category. But I did read The Scar, which is in pretty much the same world - the ending was a bit disappointing (which does happen a bit with him) but I was drawn into the characters - similarly with The City, The City, where I could never quite believe the main premise but the story was fun. Embassytown you might like. He takes a bit of acquiring, but looking at the range you read I think you'd enjoy him.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:21 pm

David and I have both read (readen?) Railsea I liked it, and he sounded like he was going to before his post was eaten by the database upgrade glitch...
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Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:21 pm

Oh, and Kraken is a bit of a supernatural London romp...
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Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:12 pm

Nash wrote:Just wondering if you remember which anthology it was in.
It was in The Weird, Nash - another book of which every home should have a copy. I've found several new writers through this book and I've still only read about 75% of it.
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Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:14 pm

Thanks Ros and Ian for the Miéville suggestions. If you had to pigeonhole him, would you say he's more "fantasy" than "SF" or vice versa, or which of his novels are more of each?
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:50 am

k-j wrote:It was in The Weird, Nash - another book of which every home should have a copy. I've found several new writers through this book and I've still only read about 75% of it.
That's a good looking anthology there, k-j! I think I've got most of the pre-1980(ish) stories in other books, I used to collect those old '60s/'70s Pan/Fontana/Mayflower etc anthologies. It'd be good to read some of the moderner stuff, I must get around to that one of these days.

Good to see Blackwood's 'The Willows' in there. One of the best.
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Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:25 am

Impressive list k-j, I haven't read many of them so very helpful to have as a guide.

I read Mieville recently for the first time, The City, The City. I would say fantasy, but I struggle to separate fantasy and sci-fi at times----- but I know I don't like sci fi (in terms of space ships and space travel etc) so I am going with fantasy for this one as I did enjoy it.

Unlike Ros I enjoyed the premise - a big suspension of disbelief but an intriguing concept that made me think a lot about other real examples. No plot spoilers so won't say too much.

Reading second of Gentlemen Bastards books right now.

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Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:22 am

bodkin wrote:David and I have both read (readen?) Railsea I liked it, and he sounded like he was going to before his post was eaten by the database upgrade glitch...
I did like it, but I was reading it while we were taking a brief furlough in that London, and when we got back I found I'd somehow lost my momentum. I was enjoying it, though.

I am on record as saying I think Embassytown is brilliant. I still do. When I read it, it was my impression (from a review I'd previously seen, which had persuaded me to give it a go) that he was usually "fantasy" but this was his first excursion into "sci-fi".
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Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:51 pm

David wrote:
bodkin wrote:David and I have both read (readen?) Railsea I liked it, and he sounded like he was going to before his post was eaten by the database upgrade glitch...
I did like it, but I was reading it while we were taking a brief furlough in that London, and when we got back I found I'd somehow lost my momentum. I was enjoying it, though.

I am on record as saying I think Embassytown is brilliant. I still do. When I read it, it was my impression (from a review I'd previously seen, which had persuaded me to give it a go) that he was usually "fantasy" but this was his first excursion into "sci-fi".
I enjoyed Emabssytown, but I think I may have missed the point...

I wonder if there is an underlying assumption of a better understanding of linguistics than I have...

e.g. there's a central point about the language of the hosts, how they don't have _something_ but how that connects to their double voices, needing real things to be similes or not having a word for <a certain concept> (I'm trying not to mention what I think is a key point from late in the book here) I am not really sure. OTOH maybe I am reading too much into it, maybe the real message is just : "they are different, the point is you cannot understand"???

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Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:37 am

Currently about halfway through a re-read of All the King's Men. This time around I'm finding elements of Warren's style irritating, and I'm struggling, in general, to be entertained.

This isn't a particularly good (or bad, depending on how you look at it) example, but it's the first one I found:

Jack Burden took refuge in the past. The other two (his roommates) sat in the living room and argued and drank or played cards or read, but Jack Burden was sitting, as like as not, back in his bedroom before a little pine table, with the notes and papers and books before him, scarcely hearing the voices. He might come out and take a drink or take a hand of cards or argue or do any of the other things they did, but what was real was back in that bedroom on the pine table.

What was back in the bedroom on the pine table?


Fuck off. It's the repetition. It gets to me after a while. And when a new object is introduced (a chair, a shoe, a fence, etc), you sometimes dread how many more times it will be named and spotlit throughout the paragraph and in the next one, and maybe the next one too. His prose has a way of looping back on itself. Sometimes it's lovely. Sometimes I tell him to fuck off.
Raisin wrote: I, Lucifer by Glenn Duncan which is awesome, written from the perspective of you know who (not Voldemorte), and in my opinion very funny and well-written.
Read it not too long ago myself (but long enough to have forgotten an opinion or two about it). It was definitely funny. But I'd only say well-written in a particular way: the level of the sentence. Or at least mostly on that level. Beyond that I found the prose screamed for attention, and that it was stylistically in debt to Martin Amis. Still, I was entertained.

Just remembered that at the time I had changed my opinion a little about the Martin Amis feel, but I don't remember why or exactly what distinction I had made. I just know that I was ready to debate someone who was of the opinion that Duncan was a mere Amis imitator. Anyway, even now I feel like I'm shitting on him too much. I did enjoy the book after all. 3/5 stars sort of thing.

A Fire Upon the Deep finished up about where I expected. It was the ideas, and not necessarily the writing that carried the novel. Competent craftsmanship, but no real artistry.

And finally, I'm happy to report that The Angel Esmeralda: Nine Stories by Don DeLillo arrived in the mail today. I'm looking forward to diving in.

And kj, holy fuck. That's probably the greatest single post that's ever been made in this thread.
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Wed May 07, 2014 10:51 pm

Travis wrote:The Angel Esmeralda: Nine Stories by Don DeLillo arrived in the mail today.
Read it yet, Trav? I thought it was a mixed bag but worth it for one or two real gems. Also interesting to see how his style changed over the 25-30 year period (?) the stories span.
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Thu May 08, 2014 2:09 pm

Recently read Life After Life by Kate Atkinson. I think I have read all her novels now and I am well impressed.

Personally I find she treads a wonderful line between "being a little bit SF" and compelling renderings of everyday life...

I am also reading Haruki Murakami as and when I find him in charity shops (which is where some of the Kate Atkinson's came from) I enjoyed Dance Dance Dance. Norwegian Wood fell a little flatter but was sort-of OK. I am currently enjoying The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle.

I am also, since there won't be any new Iain M Banks SF books, slowly filling-in his non-SF books. So far they're not as good as his more brightly coloured alter ego. I read The Wasp Factory long ago, and while I got something from it, it was too psychopathic to actually say I "enjoyed" it. Transition was I think a concept that has already been done better by lesser authors. The Business I did enjoy, although it left me with a feeling that it was rather "light" and I just now read Stonemouth which again was OK, but spoiled for me by a slight overdoing of the tone of menace, which had me paging ahead to check the protagonist didn't get maimed or killed, and again not so much to it when all was said and done. Some people have recommended The Bridge and his very last one The Quarry appeals quite a lot...

...but all-in-all, so far, his SF is hugely superior. I mean its a large pile of books to which the label "masterpiece" can be attached in several different places.

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Thu May 08, 2014 2:34 pm

bodkin wrote:I am also reading Haruki Murakami as and when I find him in charity shops (which is where some of the Kate Atkinson's came from) I enjoyed Dance Dance Dance. Norwegian Wood fell a little flatter but was sort-of OK. I am currently enjoying The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle.
I was thinking of Norwegian Wood for my next Murakami, it's been a few years since the last. Just because I've always liked the song, I guess. Wind-Up Bird I enjoyed mostly for the amazingly-written (and uniquely horrific) Mongolian interlude. I can also recommend Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World (though that was my first and I suspect I might not like it as much if I read it again), not so much Kafka on the Shore which was a bit Murakami-by-numbers. His stories do all seem to be very similar indeed, formulaic in fact, though not necessarily in a bad way, which I think is why I stepped away from him for a while.
I am also, since there won't be any new Iain M Banks SF books, slowly filling-in his non-SF books. So far they're not as good as his more brightly coloured alter ego. I read The Wasp Factory long ago, and while I got something from it, it was too psychopathic to actually say I "enjoyed" it. Transition was I think a concept that has already been done better by lesser authors. The Business I did enjoy, although it left me with a feeling that it was rather "light" and I just now read Stonemouth which again was OK, but spoiled for me by a slight overdoing of the tone of menace, which had me paging ahead to check the protagonist didn't get maimed or killed, and again not so much to it when all was said and done. Some people have recommended The Bridge and his very last one The Quarry appeals quite a lot...

...but all-in-all, so far, his SF is hugely superior. I mean its a large pile of books to which the label "masterpiece" can be attached in several different places.
I've never read any of his SF but really ought to - where does one begin with the Culture?

I thought The Business was dire; my favourite Banks is The Bridge which is coincidentally rather like a Scottish Murakami - actually Murakami's characters also drink a lot of whisky don't they? Hmm.
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Thu May 08, 2014 7:32 pm

k-j wrote:I've never read any of his SF but really ought to - where does one begin with the Culture?
I knew somebody would ask that!

Note that only about 2/3 of them are Culture novels.

If I was to recommend a Culture starting point, I would say either Consider Phlebas for completeness -- it was the first, but the Culture are mostly off-stage; or The Player of Games which is, I think the first centred on them.

Other than that they are all good. Use of Weapons has a contrived structure and is thus possibly harder work. I wouldn't start with that.

All of the last three: Matter, Surface Detail, The Hydrogen Sonata -- are excellent. But there isn't a "dud" anywhere in the set and they are not intended to read in a particular sequence. There is the odd character who reappears in a later book, but it isn't critical to the plot, as I recall.

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Thu May 08, 2014 9:17 pm

Not being a sci fi fan I didn't really get into Ian Banks culture novels although most would suggest these are his most creative novels.

I have read all of his non sci fi ones except his latest. Wasp Factory is my favourite - almost gothic. The BRidge I liked too. Of the others Business I agree is light. I would recommend Whit and Complicity and maybe Espedair Street - all lighter than the culture novels but enjoyable.

Just finishing third of Gentlemen bastards trilogy myself.

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Thu May 08, 2014 9:27 pm

Where would you recommend starting with Murakami?

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Sat May 10, 2014 4:46 am

Elphin wrote:Where would you recommend starting with Murakami?

Elph
From what I've read, Hard-Boiled Wonderland - if you're in a hurry - or maybe Wind-Up Bird if you're OK with girth.

If you feel like some non-fiction, Murakami's book on the Tokyo subway sarin gas attacks - Underground - is well worth reading.
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Mon May 12, 2014 12:56 am

Ah! Murakami! I've been through nearly everything he has written.

I'd say, start with Kafka on the Shore, follow up with Hard-Boiled Wonderland.
After those two, you will be ready for anything.
I don't think Wind-Up Bird is the best one to start with if you're not familiar with the Murakami universe; but that's just my personal opinion.

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Mon May 12, 2014 3:45 am

Magpie Jane wrote:Ah! Murakami! I've been through nearly everything he has written.
What did you think of IQ84?
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Mon May 12, 2014 9:09 pm

Travis wrote: The Angel Esmeralda: Nine Stories by Don DeLillo arrived in the mail today.
k-j wrote: Read it yet, Trav? I thought it was a mixed bag but worth it for one or two real gems.
I seem to agree. I loved The Starveling, and Human Moments in WWIII and Midnight in Dostoevsky were good as well, if I'm picking a top three. I was particularly unmoved by the second section (which includes the titular story), although The Runner was ok and elements of Esmeralda do stick with me.
k-j wrote: Also interesting to see how his style changed over the 25-30 year period (?) the stories span.
Yeah, but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. There's something more minimal about the older work, and there's a shedding of that as the stories progress. You can really see it in the last story, which, I think, is the most densely packed with that delicious observational stuff:

These were his notes, years and miles of scrawled testimony that he'd once compiled about the movies he saw. Name of theater, title of film, starting time, running time, random thoughts on plot, principals, scenes and whatever else occurred to him--the talky teenagers seated nearby and what he said to shut them up, or the way the white subtitles disappeared into white backgrounds, stranding him with a raging argument in Korean or Farsi.

He paid careful attention to rain in movies. In foreign films, set in northern or eastern Europe, it seemed, sometimes, to be raining God or raining death.

It was a dense white summer day and there were men in orange vests jackhammering along the middle of the broad street, with concrete barriers rimming the raw crevice and every moving thing on either side taking defensive measures, taxis in stop-and-start pattern and pedestrians sprinting across the street in stages, in tactical bursts, cell phones welded to their heads.

There's something of the everyman, something of the transcendent, and there's more of it in the later stories.

And how about the cell phones? :p It was fun to see them appear.

What strikes me the most about the collection though is how DeLillo has a fascination with imagining the lives of strangers, with assigning them some narrative form. Which isn't the least bit odd if you buy into the premise that we've outstripped our Darwinian selves in ways that make such a fascination inevitable. There's something inherently bizarre about the modernity that we've created. We're evolved to handle life on a certain scale, but we've built something bigger and faster, and we've filled it with strangers, and they zip by at 60 miles per hour and leave slowly diffusing contrails at 20 thousand feet. They're living and dying, nameless, just outside our own thin walls.
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Mon May 12, 2014 11:47 pm

k-j wrote:What did you think of IQ84?
I enjoyed it ever so much. Don't think anyone but Murakami could have got away with a storyline like that. Basically a mainstream slap-bang suspense plot, but handled ad modum HM and staged in the magical HM universe, it went down extremely well with me. Rather different from his other books, I think, but I'd rate it on a par with most of them.
One thing that peeved me a bit, though, was that he seems to recap overmuch here, giving 'brief summaries' at regular intervals (maybe, I thought grimly, to accommodate attention-span-challenged readers?), but this is a minor complaint.
All in all: For me, a terrific read. But I know several sensible people who wouldn't touch it with the distal end of a bargepole.

And you, what did you think?

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Tue May 13, 2014 4:05 pm

Magpie Jane wrote:
k-j wrote:What did you think of IQ84?
I enjoyed it ever so much. Don't think anyone but Murakami could have got away with a storyline like that. Basically a mainstream slap-bang suspense plot, but handled ad modum HM and staged in the magical HM universe, it went down extremely well with me. Rather different from his other books, I think, but I'd rate it on a par with most of them.
One thing that peeved me a bit, though, was that he seems to recap overmuch here, giving 'brief summaries' at regular intervals (maybe, I thought grimly, to accommodate attention-span-challenged readers?), but this is a minor complaint.
All in all: For me, a terrific read. But I know several sensible people who wouldn't touch it with the distal end of a bargepole.

And you, what did you think?

Jane
I haven't read it. I've heard pretty mixed (which is almost a euphemism for "negative") things about it, mainly that the story doesn't justify the length or the trilogy format (which you sort of allude to with the recapping), and that it's rather samey and not a progression for HM. So it's interesting to hear that you thought it different from his other stuff.

I've still got plenty of earlier Murakami to read, and if after all that I'm still interested I'll probably read IQ84.

I'd kind of like HM to have a go at something really horrific, malformed and evil.
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Tue May 13, 2014 4:14 pm

Travis wrote: There's something of the everyman, something of the transcendent, and there's more of it in the later stories.
Yeah I agree with this. One thing that struck me was that most of the stories don't really read like the work of a short-story writer - more like sketches of novels that never took off. In fact I first came across the title story as a chapter of "Underworld". So the stories are heavy on atmosphere and relatively light on plot.
And how about the cell phones? :p It was fun to see them appear.
Yes, you can't accuse DeLillo of shying away from cellphones and email. In fact his characters are usually a bit too ear-bleedingly modern, I find!
What strikes me the most about the collection though is how DeLillo has a fascination with imagining the lives of strangers, with assigning them some narrative form. Which isn't the least bit odd if you buy into the premise that we've outstripped our Darwinian selves in ways that make such a fascination inevitable. There's something inherently bizarre about the modernity that we've created. We're evolved to handle life on a certain scale, but we've built something bigger and faster, and we've filled it with strangers, and they zip by at 60 miles per hour and leave slowly diffusing contrails at 20 thousand feet. They're living and dying, nameless, just outside our own thin walls.
I rather think we've evolved to construct all kinds of modes of existence and adapt accordingly - to handle life on whatever scale we build. But definitely the communal anonymity of urban life is a big theme in DD.
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Thu May 15, 2014 10:30 pm

OK, time for another update - this covers mid-Jan through March:

The Portrait of a Lady - James

I didn't enjoy every minute of it but it is a brilliant work of art, a true "portrait". I enjoyed James's preface too, where he explains at length what he was trying to achieve - a purely character-driven novel, where everything unfolds as (more or less predictable) consequence of character. Given how complicated characters are this is wildly ambitious, but James has that unique painterly style which makes it hard to detect any flaws in his work. There's a feeling of satisfaction when you step back and look at the whole. I think I'm starting to understand James now and will read more.

The Houses of Children - Coleman Dowell

One or two of these short stories I thought were really staggeringly good. There were a couple of oddballs, experiments which didn't quite come off, and the rest were somewhere in between. Worth a look, especially if you're into the mid-century mid-West setting.

Around the World in 80 Days

It's all about Fogg and Passepartout isn't it? Apart from them and their amusing relationship, it's pretty dull. I suppose it's better if you don't already know about the twist at the end.

The Lusiads - Camões

National epic of Portugal, using the story of Vasco da Gama's navigation to, and initial encounter with, India as a frame for the glorious history of the people. I tried to read it in Portuguese but gave up and switched to a 100 year-old translation pretty damn quick. Interesting because Christianity, and the hatefulness of the Moors, plays such a big part - but Camões is happy to have the Greek gods directing events throughout! I enjoyed the action as da Gama sails round the Cape and up past Ethiopia, finally crossing to India to announce Portugal's arrival on the Colonial scene, but 50% of this is just a dreadfully overblown recital of old battles of no interest to anyone but a scholar of Portuguese history.

Martian Time-Slip - Dick

Excellent, focused novel about suburbia and schizophrenia (or "autism" as it's referred to here). I really loved the idea of the Martian colony with its petty union power-mongers, bored housewives, and black-marketeers peddling Earthly delicacies. And the gradual slippage of reality is better done here than in any other Dick novel I've read. Gubbish... gubble gubble... quite terrifying really.

Howard's End - Forster

Yep, this deserves its reputation for sure. Much meatier than "A Room With a View" which I didn't like. High-quality prose, too.

The Secret History - Tartt

My wife's been bothering me to read this for years. Initially I was bowled over by the writing; Tartt's style is hugely impressive. I was hoping for a bit more plot-wise from the second half and there were one or two details that didn't quite make sense to me. But I can see why it was such a hit when it came out 22 years ago. Far more gorgeous and accomplished than a first novel has any right to be.

The Cook - Harry Kressing

Amusing tale of an infernal stranger who arrives in a small town and goes about enslaving it to his will. No-one knows who was behind the author's pseudonym. A "cult" novel well worth seeking out second-hand.

Redshirts - John Scalzi

I bought this for the wife but she didn't like it. I did. It's a very self-conscious meta-novel with loads of funny jokes for Star Trek fans. I thought the metafiction and time-travel were handled very well indeed, and far from ending up vacuous or smug as this kind of thing often does, there is an undercurrent of real pathos... it sort of reminded me of "Flatland" in that respect. Leaves you with an uneasy feeling about reality.

Jacob's Room - Woolf

Interesting but not particularly enjoyable early Woolf novel. At least it's short. You can certainly see Woolf experimenting in the direction of her later masterpieces here. It's episodic like The Waves and there are flashes of Dalloway in the style. If the idea was to protest or mourn the waste of a life in the war, I think it could just as well have been done as a short story without all the early chapters.

The Recognitions - Gaddis

Definitely the most difficult book I've ever read. About 1/3 of the way through (i.e. page 300) I resorted to an excellent online guide/concordance which really help steady the ship. Before that I was floundering. But it's a work of genius, and I don't say that just through literary Stockholm syndrome... like other great novels, you have to teach yourself how to read it and I guess once isn't enough. What I liked: the brilliant disembodied dialogue, the hilarious coincidences, the scene with Otto Pivner and Frank Sinisterra and the fake bills, the incredible multifaceted exploration of identity and what it means to be genuine or not, the black-comic deaths toward the end. What I didn't like: the heavy-duty religion (but I liked the crazy unravelling of old man Gwyon into Mithraism), the endlessness of the New York party scenes, the sheer impenetrability of some of the scenes with Valentine, e.g. his walk through the zoo with Wyatt. DO NOT TRY TO READ THIS BOOK WHILE DRUNK!

Stand on Zanzibar - John Brunner

So bad I reviewed it on librarything: https://www.librarything.com/work/21041 ... /107035985

Our Mutual Friend - Dickens

Yes! Having enjoyed Bleak House I decided to give OMF a try, hoping it would be similar, and boy am I glad I did! This is my fifth Dickens novel and the first that I've unequivocally looked forward to picking up each evening. There are still one or two moments of watery sentimentalism, and of course it wouldn't be Dickens without ludicrous coincidences to drive the plot, but the writing here is often brilliant. I've rarely seen a place (London) so consistently and poetically described in prose. The river runs through the novel as it does the city, the silent, omnipresent engine of the novel, and the streets and the weather are scarcely less memorable. I also felt that the characterisation here was the most sophisticated I've seen in Dickens - with two or three exceptions, there are no 100% good or evil characters, there's lots of nuance and some characters, notably Headstone, actually change or develop over the course of the story. Jenny Wren is a delight, and the social satire is hilarious. I'm pretty sure Dickens ran out of room/time and had to manufacture the ridiculous explanation for Boffin's behaviour, but that doesn't really matter I think. Now I want to read some of his non-fiction, I have a feeling I'll like it.

Annihilation - Jeff Vandermeer

Rather a let-down, this. Overhyped I think. Firstly, it's ridiculous to market this as a trilogy. This first installment is short and not a lot happens. If the other two parts are similar, we're talking a standard novel that's been cut into three purely for marketing/commercial reasons, which I don't approve of at all. Although satisfyingly Lovecraftian in places, there is also some pretty blatant Freudian symbolism which really should have been avoided. The flashbacks to the protagonist's past/married life are dull. And although it's a good effort, I'm not sure Vandermeer's first-person female narrator convinces. Not terrible, but not what I'd hoped for. Don't think I'll bother with part II.
fine words butter no parsnips
David
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Sun May 18, 2014 7:05 pm

I am, again, greatly impressed by your prodigious reading efforts, k-j. I can't follow you too far into the results, but I too remember greatly enjoying Our Mutual Friend. And, because (at that time, so far as I can remember) it hadn't been subject to the classic BBC Sunday teatime adaptation, it was like reading a new, wholly unknown Dickens. Which was great.

A youngish sallowish gentleman in spectacles, with a lumpy forehead, seated in a supplementary chair at a corner of the table, here caused a profound sensation by saying, in a raised voice, 'ESKER,' and then stopping dead.

I must read more James. (Have you read The Master by Colm Tóibín? Terrific non-James James.)

I think I've read pretty much all of PKD now (maybe not the later stuff), and a lot of them have sort of flowed into each other in my mind, but I remember Martian Time Slip. Very good. Unsettling.

Oh, and I've read Howards End too. (No apostrophe?) That's the one with the extensive dissection of Beethoven's Fifth, isn't it? And Lionel Bast. Very interesting character.
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