Are you Experienced?

[camus]

It's been a subject of contention ever since The Experienced and Beginners forums were created. Personally I think the divide serves no particular purpose any longer. Perhaps at one stage it did?

It seems the general consensus is there is no reason for them both existing? So on that note should the Experienced and Beginners forums be amalgamated? if so, what should we call the newly combined forum?

Are there any issues you foresee, with a combination?

Now from my point of view there are the technical details to consider. How easy is it to amalgamate? Well the answer seems to be - potentially, quite easy.

I found the following link - https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2153845 If you scroll down you'll see a post containing:

All you have to do is delete one subforum. When a subforum is deleted, you will be asked what you want to do with the posts. One of the options is to move the posts to another forum.

So in theory that sounds a relatively simple process (he says) That said it's a very old post and I'd certainly have to do some more digging.

Perhaps I should create a voting poll?

Anyhow, thoughts appreciated.

Cheers
Kris

[Morpheus]

Slightly funny story that I forgot to mention to John but I know of another poet who came to look at the boards on here and mentioned that they were frightened by how good the poetry in beginners section was at the time

Instead of an amalgamating Kris, you could rename beginners board as the daily share and light comment board. Detailed crits are welcome too but there's no expectation. Is that about right John?

[Magpie Jane]

Hi there, Kris -

This subject was discussed at some length about a year ago:
Discussion/Poetry Discussion/Beginners
started by Ray, and running from 09 Sep 2022 to 13 Sep 2022.

You, and anyone interested in the question, might find something useful there.
Perhaps even some sort of solution. Or inspiration for brand new ideas.

All the best,
Jane

[Lia]

Ah you've started a discussion thread already, Kris. That's smashing.

If it's really possible, and if all the poetry from Beginners can be safely merged with Experienced so that nothing was lost, then I think it would be a great thing to do. I appreciate what Morpheus is saying about a daily poem board, but I wonder if that's the right thing for Beginners itself, when the years of poems on there are workshop poems and feel like they belong to the main poetry forum just as much as the Experienced poems do. Perhaps there could be a daily poem category somewhere on PAT if it was found to be needed?

These are just thoughts, of course, but I also think it would be great if the Haiku Train was pinned to the newly combined forum, if that's possible, simply because the Haiku Train is excellent! Plus, it's a useful tool to help the words flow again.

As for the name of the newly combined forum, I haven't got any worthy ideas just yet, but I'm keen to see what others think.

A voting poll would be a very good idea.

Lia

[Morpheus]

I wasn't suggesting we should keep beginner's board. I was saying that there are accomplished poets like John where they are just looking for regular read, share and short reaction rather than a line by line critique.

The BBC used to have a board for free style critique and a board for review by numbers where we had to do school report type reviews giving scores and explanations across various categories.

Eratosphere has its metric/non-metric boards and some people stick rigidly to one board or another. There's also a detailed deep end critique type board although I've never used it.

I think the line by line in depth critiquing style I would normally associated with Not is something that is deserving of it's own category and it would be a useful learning tool for new poets to see poems broken down and analysed. There's some fabulous critiquing goes on that eventually gets lost in feed.

[Lia]

Hello Jane,

I didn't see your comment go up. I've been looking at that discussion to see how it turned out. Over all, it does seem that most are in favour of combining the two forums, but also that there might be other sub forums for other purposes, too.


I'm often a bit slow on the uptake, Morpheus, but I see exactly what you're saying now, so thanks for clarifying.

I was on a US board maybe twenty years ago now, and they had the main forum and then a heavy crit forum. The main forum was still a workshop, but a commenter could only offer up to three suggestions (suggestions that were separate from punc and typo comments). If the author then asked for more advice, the commenter could offer further suggestions. The heavy crit forum lived up to its name. It wasn't as busy as the main forum, but it worked. Maybe something like that could work here?

At this point, I think the majority of us are aware of each other's preferences, but it does take a little while to find out exactly what poets want. It does seem that John prefers gentle feedback. (It would be lovely to hear from John about this.) And he's not the only one on the forum that does. Others, such as myself, like to be pushed a little bit. I love the feeling that comes with bouncing ideas off of someone. I will say, though, that any critique should be constructive otherwise the author can lose confidence in what they're doing.

I wonder if John would be comfortable posting on the main forum (if the amalgamation took place)? But strangely, it is only all of us commenting on his poems anyway. Again, I think it would be good to hear from John on this.

Perhaps, if a vote takes place and the forums are combined, we can all see how it feels and then see if something needs to be done after the dust settles. There's always the private Touch, too, if anyone feels like they need it from time to time. (Something sounds wrong about what I've just said.) It offers a quiet place, is what I mean to say.

Lia

[camus]

Thanks for the input so far, appreciated.

So I think a simple poll is in order. That way we'll have a definitive answer to work around.

Cheers
Kris

[Morpheus]

I might give John a nudge towards this thread.

It's best for him to confirm but I think he uses Beginners board to stop Experienced board becoming overwhelmed by his prolific output.

In truth I don't use the boards, I navigate by latest content so my feed is generally dominated by John's work and I like John's poetry so it doesn't bother me.

[jisbell00]

Hi folks,

Morph kindly pointed me here. nice thread. I don't mind detailed crits, but mostly don't want to overhwelm the boards. And I like votes, unlike today's GOP.

I guess I would add that having two threads doubles people's exposure to poetry, and poets' exposure to people. I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

Cheeers,
John

[Lia]

Hi Morpheus,

I understand, and I also see why Beginners was chosen - it's not used as often as the main forum.

If you navigate by latest content then I suppose it already feels like one forum to you. I tend to start on the main board and work out from there unless I'm coming directly from a notification.


Hi John,

Thanks for confirming the detailed crits (which I didn't realise) and also that it's mainly to do with not wanting to overwhelm the boards. You make a good point about exposure, but I think a bigger problem is the main forum and the daunting thought about posting on a forum that seems like it's for experienced writers only rather than it feeling like a welcoming place where all kinds of writers can work together. Maybe something new will come out of it, too. I do think PAT needs a bit of help - not a complete overhaul but a friendly kick.

Lia

[jisbell00]

Hi Lia,

I've just finished posting a MS. and am happy to try posting on Epxerienced awhile to free up Beginners. There should be a venue here for that, I agree. It's friendly.

Cheers,
John

[Leaf]

I don't post poetry here any more, but here's a possibility: just let the poet state what level of critique they require, with specific questions for critters if they wish.

[camus]

Leaf,

I don't post poetry here any more

Is there a particular reason for that?

Every little helps!

Cheers
Kris

[Leaf]

Just don't have enough time at the moment, Kris. My arthritis is flaring and I'm sleeping more than usual. Still writing when I can, though