Saying Hello

[Denis Joe]

Hello All,

Thank you for my membership. This seems to be a great site, with exceptional quality to the work posted.

I live in Liverpool and am active in the poetry scene here. I am a trustee on the board of North End Writers, a charity that promotes creative writing and poetry. I also run the poetry group for the charity.

Poetry is my main interest and I am particularly interested in American 20th Century poetry (especially Zukofsky, Carlos Williams and John Kay)./ My other passion is traditional Japanese form. I despair at the quality of much Western approached to tanka, Haiku, etc. It seems many of the writers seem to just see the forms as a matter of syllable count.

I have been working with the chõka form for a few years. I began with adhering to the demands of the structure, but I felt confident enough to try to bring it up to date. I will post some of the results on The Poet's Graveyard and hope that you find them interesting enough to critique.

I never see any of the pieces that I write as 'complete'; even the best poem can be improved upon, so I welcome any suggestions that would help improve my work.

Again, many thanks and I look forward to working with you.

Yours,

Denis Joe

[Ros]

Thank you for my membership. This seems to be a great site, with exceptional quality to the work posted.

You're starting off on just the right foot, Denis Joe Good to have you here.

We have a 'haiku train', but it isn't, it's just short poems written in response to each other. If you'd like to set up some sort of exercise or something to share what you've learned about haiku and tanka, I think there are many who would be keen to learn. Check out Arunansu - he's keen on such forms as well. It would be good to try to write more formal haiku.

I don't know much about the chõka form so I'll await your postings with interest. Hope you enjoy it here.

Ros

[David]

Hi Denis. Hope you enjoy yourself here.

I've had some dealings with a Liverpool poet called Alan Corkish. Is he one of your peers?

[chicory]

Hello Denis Joe - I just joined yesterday - I like Euro writers better than American - I (try to ) write poetry in Italian also.
I just read about the magazine The Rialto yesterday . I belong to another UK based forum but it is overran with Americans! LOL

[delph_ambi]

Hi Denis -- I've just been here two or three days myself. We newbies are taking over!

[chicory]

So Delph-ambi... Are we like the zoombies
taking over the cyber - site. The Night of The Living Living ?
Auwaaaaahhhh

[nar]

Hi, Denis Joe.

Nice to meet you.

I despair at the quality of much Western approached to tanka, Haiku, etc. It seems many of the writers seem to just see the forms as a matter of syllable count.

Best stay away from some of my efforts then.

Warm welcome.

- Neil

[bodkin]

Hi and welcome...

I'm aware of the way to do "proper" haiku, but usually urge to do faux-ku is overwhelming...

Ian

[Marc]

Guilty as charged on the haiku front!

Perhaps I'll try and ride the train a bit more correctly to the form..

Anyway, welcome!

Marc

[k-j]

Greetings. I'm a fan of Zukofsky too! I still haven't got around to reading all of 'A', though. Have you read his flower poems and his sonic transliterations of Catullus? His essays are also very good.

[brianedwards]

Greetings. I'm a fan of Zukofsky too! I still haven't got around to reading all of 'A', though. Have you read his flower poems and his sonic transliterations of Catullus? His essays are also very good.

Ditto and ditto regards reading all of 'A'. Tried to buy it last year actually, but couldn't get a copy from amazon --- my lifeline for English language books, being in Japan. His essays are incredible.

B.

[k-j]

Ditto and ditto regards reading all of 'A'. Tried to buy it last year actually, but couldn't get a copy from amazon --- my lifeline for English language books, being in Japan. His essays are incredible.

I have 'A' parts 1-12, which I think might be the best parts... the opening with the winter Bach concert is just sublime. A couple of years ago I read his prose fiction - 'Little' and three or four short pieces - and though it has its moments I found it more annoying than anything else; maybe I just wasn't in the mood.

[David]

I've just finished an anthology of American poetry, and there are three Zukofsky poems in there. Never heard of him before. There's one Catullus poem, that I like very much. They are sonic transliterations, you say? Wow.

[Denis Joe]

.

I read his prose fiction - 'Little' and three or four short pieces - and though it has its moments I found it more annoying than anything else; maybe I just wasn't in the mood.

I think that that is an issue with poets. They think just because they can put pen to paper that they can write fiction as well. there are a few who can get away with it, but they are few and far between.

I regard 'A' as a superior work to Pound's Cantos. I struggled through them but I find that they are very uneven and I think that Pound was 'losing it' in some parts. Zukofsky managed to maintain the poetry throughout.

From another post on Sestina, if you are not familiar with it, Mantis, by Zukofsky is an excellent example.

It seems to me, from discussion with other poets, that the role Zukofsky played in revolutionising poetry, is very underestimated.

[k-j]

There's one Catullus poem, that I like very much. They are sonic transliterations, you say? Wow.

I think the idea was to English them based on close sound-equivalence rather than sense. So you get something in English that sounds very similar to the Latin, but (on the face of it) may not make much sense - but actually, they often do end up making sense. It's a lot of fun to read.

I can't think of another poet who has such a consciously musical way of writing, whose poetry is so deeply concerned with the sound and music of language, in subject as well as style.

Denis, I agree Z was an inventive and relevant poet for lot longer than £ (although again, I've only really sampled the cantos).

Interesting stuff, perhaps a mod could hive it off into its own thread in Poetry Discussion?

[BenJohnson]

Welcome to the site, you seem to have stirred up an interesting discussion already which is great. I also agree with your opening comments about haiku and syllable counts, luckily there is a movement towards what defines a haiku and the irrelevence of syllable counting.