i read on war and the prince at an impressionable age,,, and the former probably has changed how i interact.
anyone read the art of war? are they sorta relevant to the aspiring poet - at all?
anyone here read any of the war manuals?
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Ros
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Think I read some of the art of war at some point... why would they be relevant to poetry? Poetry = opposite of war, perhaps? Machiavelli probably not so useful for the poetry, either!
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Travis wrote:Isn't what's "relevant to the aspiring poet" a determination to be made by the aspiring poet?
yes, and did i or did i not ask the aspiriting poet for their determination
?"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
What you did was ask for guidance on whether or not specific works are relevant to your growth as a writer. As written, the question appears to presuppose the existence of an objective yes or no answer, as well as a level of homogeneity among writers that's far too precise to come anywhere close to describing reality. Hence my largely rhetorical question.
And now I have another question, no less rhetorical, but at this point much more relevant: Do I need to brush up on my reading skills, or do you need to crank up the pellucidity? I suspect the presupposition of an objective yes or no answer here is something that I can afford.
And now I have another question, no less rhetorical, but at this point much more relevant: Do I need to brush up on my reading skills, or do you need to crank up the pellucidity? I suspect the presupposition of an objective yes or no answer here is something that I can afford.
There's only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. (Martin Amis, "Money")
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Magpie Jane
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Pellucidity! - - Gawd, I love that word. Had to look it up on Wiki. One of the enlightenments I received there, was:
As a sort of answer to your question, Clemonz:
1. Yes. Any kind of readingstuff is relevant to the aspiring poet.
2. Not everything that's relevant is necessary.
Jane
As a sort of answer to your question, Clemonz:
1. Yes. Any kind of readingstuff is relevant to the aspiring poet.
2. Not everything that's relevant is necessary.
Jane
Everything looks better by candlelight.
Everything sounds more plausible on the shortwave.
Everything sounds more plausible on the shortwave.
no, no i wasn't asking that why would you think so?What you did was ask for guidance on whether or not specific works are relevant to your growth as a writer.
i don't think discussion has to work how you think... rhetorical or not, i'm finding your hostility rather rude.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
wasn't asking whether it CAN be relevant - i was a little interested in HOW something like a war manual is relevant to other people's writing, tho not just that - also WHAT tangential lit. is relevant to YOU, and so on,As a sort of answer to your question, Clemonz:
1. Yes. Any kind of readingstuff is relevant to the aspiring poet.
2. Not everything that's relevant is necessary.
i thought it could be an innteresting / illuminating discussion, it's a shame it wasn't deemed perspicuous enough to warrant any attention beside over rhetorical attaoks... ANYWAY, i don't understand your point 2 are you saying something so trivial?
i wasn't THINKING of anything, before i wrote the OP, beyond highly selective use of metaphor. but meh, i don't see what the point is in talking to myself about this - at least now i know how unwelcome it is.
edit i find it q. peculiar how much reading on war changed how i think about my behaviour... it was over a decade ago, but i still think of it whenever forced into being defensive, etc.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
I'm not too worried about being perceived as rude, but I am sorry that you think I'm hostile. The tone I was aiming for was playfully captious. As you can probably tell, I don't have a friend on the planet.clemonz wrote: no, no i wasn't asking that why would you think so?
i don't think discussion has to work how you think... rhetorical or not, i'm finding your hostility rather rude.
I feel like your question has already been answered in my previous post, although the irony in this one seems equal to the task as well. But to answer you straight out, I thought so because I read it that way. And I read it that way because that's the way you wrote it. Or so I believe.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rd53Wu ... 9KIByRa8T4[/youtube]
There's only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. (Martin Amis, "Money")
so you're calling me a liar?
yes, that is hostile - not seemingly so, just hostile.
yes, that is hostile - not seemingly so, just hostile.
well maybe you should work on that.I'm not too worried about being perceived as rude
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
personally i tend to find hostility the sign of a weak, brittle mind - one that thinks too much of itself ah.
also one that can't see the wood for the treesare they sorta relevant
edit personally i found it a rather amusing diverting question - why not go pose on someone elses threadclemonz wrote:anyone here read any of the war manuals?
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
clemonz wrote: so you're calling me a liar?
No. I believe you regarding your intention. I'm saying that it came off differently, and that I believe others would agree with me.
There's only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. (Martin Amis, "Money")
what?Travis wrote:clemonz wrote: so you're calling me a liar?
No. I believe you regarding your intention. I'm saying that it came off differently, and that I believe others would agree with me.
ok, well i think you / they shouldn't r bother with my motivations when replying to me - they are often confusing.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
or deconstructive readings?
i know, anyway, that e.g. the art of war won't be relevant to me, unless it is - and it strikes me as an intriguing idea.
another thing that's changed how i write / am crearive, is reading about zenn doing in the kyoto school of philosophy... so perhaps there's something there, i don't know.
i know, anyway, that e.g. the art of war won't be relevant to me, unless it is - and it strikes me as an intriguing idea.
another thing that's changed how i write / am crearive, is reading about zenn doing in the kyoto school of philosophy... so perhaps there's something there, i don't know.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
just this. i barely even understa\nd what you are saying here - that i want someone to choose what books i say have influenced my writing [regardless of what do?]?clemonz wrote:no, no i wasn't asking that why would you think so?What you did was ask for guidance on whether or not specific works are relevant to your growth as a writer.
i explained my OP pretty thoroughly in the post with all the CAPS. i don't mean to seem rude, or to have gotten angry at you... best wishes man.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
It seemed to me like you were asking if the particular works you mentioned would help you grow as a writer (of poetry). There's not much more to it than that. I mean, I am making the case that's it's not my reading of it, but instead your writing of it that was the cause of my confusion, but that's a different point.
There's only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. (Martin Amis, "Money")
Travis wrote:It seemed to me like you were asking if the particular works you mentioned would help you grow as a writer (of poetry). There's not much more to it than that. I mean, I am making the case that's it's not my reading of it, but instead your writing of it that was the cause of my confusion, but that's a different point.
OK. well i guess there was an ELEMENT of that - but how does it make ANY sense to say that no-one can provide any advice [at all] on whether this literature can help one "grow as a writer"? how is it any different to asking what literarture can help - and if THAT question cannot be answered, then...
confusing.
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."
Yeah, but I wasn't saying that. General advice can of course be given pretty much regardless of context. But your question seemed to me to be asking for something that only you could provide.
There's only one rule in street and bar fights: maximum violence, instantly. (Martin Amis, "Money")
well, it wasn't a yes / no question - it was meant to be massively open ended, leading to all sorts of wild discussion - except, that is, on THIS
sorry if I was hostile
sorry if I was hostile
"It is not necessary that a poem should rely on its music, but if it does rely on its music that music must be such as will delight the expert."