The Cult of the Noble Amateur
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ray miller
- Perspicacious Poster
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This is a lot better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2z-Cd3luqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2z-Cd3luqA
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
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Ros
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https://genius.com/Hollie-mcnish-embarrassed-annotated
While I agree with the message, if reading the words as a written poem I'm not particularly impressed with it as poetry.
While I agree with the message, if reading the words as a written poem I'm not particularly impressed with it as poetry.
Rosencrantz: What are you playing at? Guildenstern: Words. Words. They're all we have to go on.
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Antiphon - www.antiphon.org.uk
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Antiphon - www.antiphon.org.uk
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ray miller
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 7419
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am
I think it's ok, I quite like that kind of thing. I can see why it would be popular. I think Kate Tempest is a whole lot better and I'm surprised that it would win any awards. What I really struggle to see is how anyone could claim it to be utterly lacking in, or rejecting craft, as Rebecca Watts described it.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
Hi Ros, I think what you say makes good sense again.
Here’s an interesting interview with Watts and Paterson on the BBC, yesterday.
Paterson and Watts respond:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09nrsg1
This is an interesting viewpoint too.
Robert Hampson wrote:
Doesn't Rebecca Watts raise a larger issue than that binary - namely, the phenomenon of populism?
Since New Labour there has been a knee-jerk 'anti-elitism' which has been very selective in terms of which elites it attacks: not the Windsors and the aristocracy, not the wealthy and the oligarchs, not even elite sportspeople ... but the educated (unless they went to Eton), the expert ...
McNish's reply below is disappointing: that snide reference to 'high-register vocabulary' seems to me to confirm part of Watts's argument. Shouldn't poets be interested in the resources of language? At the same time, the use of 'high-register' is itself interesting: isn't it precisely an instance of the 'high-register vocabulary' for which Watts is being attacked.
Robert
Hi David,
It’s not McNish that enrages me, it’s the phenomena her case represents. I do not dislike her. I do not even really dislike her work, I just don’t think it’s very good as literary poetry. For her Poetry to win the Ted Hugh’s Award and be chosen for publication by Picador shows that the Poetry establishment has lost touch with what is important (Poetry and honest literary criticism) and is too interested in what is popular and personalities (poets should never be put on pedestals). I believe this case brings into questions all the literary awards now. I also believe there’s a lot more integrity in the small Poetry press and journals than the big ones, in terms of criticism and selection. Maybe PN Review will change this though with Watts article.
Cheers,
Tristan
Here’s an interesting interview with Watts and Paterson on the BBC, yesterday.
Paterson and Watts respond:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09nrsg1
This is an interesting viewpoint too.
Robert Hampson wrote:
Doesn't Rebecca Watts raise a larger issue than that binary - namely, the phenomenon of populism?
Since New Labour there has been a knee-jerk 'anti-elitism' which has been very selective in terms of which elites it attacks: not the Windsors and the aristocracy, not the wealthy and the oligarchs, not even elite sportspeople ... but the educated (unless they went to Eton), the expert ...
McNish's reply below is disappointing: that snide reference to 'high-register vocabulary' seems to me to confirm part of Watts's argument. Shouldn't poets be interested in the resources of language? At the same time, the use of 'high-register' is itself interesting: isn't it precisely an instance of the 'high-register vocabulary' for which Watts is being attacked.
Robert
Hi David,
It’s not McNish that enrages me, it’s the phenomena her case represents. I do not dislike her. I do not even really dislike her work, I just don’t think it’s very good as literary poetry. For her Poetry to win the Ted Hugh’s Award and be chosen for publication by Picador shows that the Poetry establishment has lost touch with what is important (Poetry and honest literary criticism) and is too interested in what is popular and personalities (poets should never be put on pedestals). I believe this case brings into questions all the literary awards now. I also believe there’s a lot more integrity in the small Poetry press and journals than the big ones, in terms of criticism and selection. Maybe PN Review will change this though with Watts article.
Cheers,
Tristan
This amused me from Tim Allen.
Tristan
Cheers,What is so great about piss poor middle class poets pretending that they are working class and then patronising the working class to an audience that is mostly middle class anyway. Perverse. Bonkers. But its been going on for ages, long before Tempest and McNish.
Tristan