Poetry Forum

I think tastes in poetry are very fragmented John.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/ ... ompetition.

Hi Phil,

I think you're right and I respect your ecumenicalism. However, i do think as people have moved away from rhyme and meter, people's ears have atrophied and stuff passes for rhyme and meter that previous generations would have found disappointing. Dawn-morn, for instance, a rhyme you'd have to pay me good money, and a substantial sum, to get me to write. Morn I think is a dead word, and using it to get a rhyme with dawn just makes it worse. It's lazy and does not compliment one's readers.

Cheers,
John

I must admit I hardly noticed the rhyme. I was more interested in the personification, probably because of Tony's recent poem, which I also enjoyed.

Yup! You and I have different tastes. Yours is probably broader than mine is, at least in terms of modern English-language poetry. But I stand by my comment on rhyme, that useful musical device, and how it works.

Cheers,
John

Always remember the use of morn at the end of this poem...

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... -innocence

True! But that's a perfect rhyme and it's just over 200 years ago, when the word was not yet dead: "Here is the cock that crowed in the morn."


Cheers,
John

...but Blake has a timeless quality John Time to resurrect morn...

https://www.proleartthreat.co.uk/forum/ ... 17#p231596

Ah! Well yes, timeless is a good word for Blake, his poems seem to stand outside time's passage.

Caleb's use of morn bothers me a fair bit less, it's not rhyme-driven (and somewhat ineptly so). It is honest and doing yeoman's work, not bent to fit a slipshod rhyme scheme. Of course, i did just tell Caleb that i feel bide is dead and can't be resurrected. Except in the phrase to bide one's time.

These are all very interesting questions. Here is some pretty nice modern rhyming IMO: https://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis ... ttage.html

Cheers,
John

The final stanza is a killer. Liked the 'brewing dusk'.

Yup. And 'unjust.'

Cheers,
John

Some Eliot quotes...

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/2 ... r-quartets

Macavity wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:11 am

...but Blake has a timeless quality John Time to resurrect morn...

https://www.proleartthreat.co.uk/forum/ ... 17#p231596

When I click on that link, I get my poem The Matchmaker. Didn't you mean to link to a Blake poem?

Oh oh oh, I see. You were talking about "morn" and I just used it in a poem. I must say, when someone references a poem of mine for any reason -- especially you, Phil -- it makes me feel like I've "arrived".

Caleb, the end of all your arriving will be to see that you’ve never left.

Phil, thanks for those links toEliot. He was a massive influence on me 40 years ago, and I’ve spent decades not reading him. But he is transformational. These days, I just reread Yeats, which is kind of stupid. But Yeats sings in my ears.

Cheers,
John

The philosophical side of your poetry John prompted me to think of Four Quartets.

Four Quartets is intermittently breathtaking. Thank you for the compliment!

Early or later Yeats John?

Oh! Later Yeats mostly. The emperor's drunken soldiery are abed.

Cheers,
John

A poem addressed to Elizabeth. I like the water-moon eyes.

Cheers,
John

Yup, Harrison is very good and Yeats continues to blow me away. My wife loves that song, she writes on apples.

Cheers,
John

I'm not that much engaged by Yeats, his politics and beliefs, I find Eliot a more engaging read. However, sifting his poems, reading the notes on them in my book, and watching lectures on YouTube, has helped me to appreciate him more.

You prefer Eliot's politics?

Yeats had an astonishing ear. I leave the rest to the biographers!

Of course, Bob Dylan said he'd kill for Brian WIlson's ear.

Cheers,
John

certainly not John.

Yes, you make a valid point about biography.