Voting panel is up for IBPC for May

[Ros]

You have until lunchtime on Saturday.

[Danté]

Is this staying up here beyond the closing date?
As it does kind of imply some relevance in resepct of the posts on this board allbeit at the eleventh
and a half hour. Would it be cynical to ponder that there might be a shortage of material from the
higher echelon to submit?

Might I suggest that this section would benefit from having a moderator who actually
participates here, who could maybe flag up posts to see if the poets might be
interested in participation of the monthly submissions?
I think one or two people working here, kind of keep their light under a bushell
but a gentle poke could get by the shyness and add some diversity to the submissions.
After all the list of mods for here is longer than some of the poems and yet no-one actually
works here amongst us innexperienced folk.
I know time is precious, and accept that there are one or two that drop by and crit
but the lack of an active moderator who mucks in on a regular basis is glaring.

I'll await any constructive thoughts on these matters with a tingling anticipation.

Regards

Danté

[David]

If anyone likes your poems, Tim - and I do, sometimes - I'm sure they'll nominate them. That goes for anyone's, surely? And you can nominate anything you like.

Oh look, my brief comment is longer than the list of moderators.

I think the mods (the mods!) do participate a fair bit here, but if you think they don't then - as perception is everything - perhaps they don't. Not on a regular basis, anyway. Point taken. I will try harder.

Cheers

David

[Ros]

Inexperienced? You've got more posts that me! I've been trying to encourage people all month to nominate poems they think are worthy of consideration - I put a reminder up last week (which I removed this morning when I put this message up instead). You can spot an excellent poem as well as I can, I'm sure.

Is this staying up here beyond the closing date?
As it does kind of imply some relevance in resepct of the posts on this board allbeit at the eleventh
and a half hour. Would it be cynical to ponder that there might be a shortage of material from the
higher echelon to submit?
Danté

I don't quite get what you mean here. As discussed to death when we started this venture, anyone is free to nominate anything from anywhere. This is the voting for the poems that have been nominated, so, no, it won't be up past the closing date. What would be the point?

Those who consistently write well are noticed, e.g. mes and suzanne recently being featured, invited to write in Exp.

I admit the point that a mod spending more time in Beg would be a good idea, though. It's a matter of time, I'm sure.

Ros

[Danté]

David

I am not bothered about my own stuff, but appreciate your reply in respect of it, both here and on
the threads they occupy. My enquiries are general and not directed for any motive that revolves
around myself. Surely a dialogue that is aimed at some improvement for others is not an unknown
concept at PG. I would simply like to have some polite debate in respect of the possibility of there
being a moderator present on this forum who is happy to work on this board without feeling that they
are in some way missing out on being a high-flyer by doing so, that includes actually posting work here.
It would require a person who does not worry about appearances, i.e. someone who is not superficial.
I think this board would benefit from something of that nature, rather than it appearing like
some kind of obligation that is expected, to have to be fulfilled by some moderators.

I appreciate, as I am sure many others do the time that moderators put in running the place.
It seems to me, that having one who actually works here could be an improvement.
That might actually help with getting the ratio of nominated works to a level that appears less biased.

Regards

Tim

[David]

Now that's an interesting idea. I don't want to overestimate the us-and-themishness of Experienced and Beginners, and if a mod pops into Beginners it ought to be like a friend dropping in rather than a visit from the Queen, so if we (or I) have given the wrong impression, we (or I) are screwing up.

I have noticed that you do act as a sort of mentor for some folk here, which is highly praiseworthy.

I'm not sure how your idea would work, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't. Maybe we should have a think about that.

Cheers

David

[Danté]

Thanks Ros

I greatly appreciate your reply. I guess we all work with what we perceive and along the way take into account the perceptions of others and meet somewhere in-between.
I only say it how it looks from my comfy chair, but I am always open to how it looks from another angle.

I am not wishing to have a pop at anyone, it’s simply a case of raising issues and if one happens to get resolved it’s a bonus.

I think that this board could use a little more of the mod’s guiding hands in respect of nominations and some opportunity for the writers here to see some posted work in this forum so they can reply to it without having to go upstairs. Surely if one accepts a position of being a moderator of a given forum, considerations of time and motivation ought have been pondered before accepting such a position. If a mod has insufficient time to be active on the board that they have their name over, it would be a good idea to have one or two more nominated that can fulfil the role. At least that way there is more likely to be someone to be about when life circumstances keep others off.

The point of perhaps having the nomination thread here beyond the end of the month, would be so it’s there right in the place one is working. And of course have one upstairs as well, we wouldn’t want any kind of implied favouritism, would we?

I’m perfectly happy to exclude myself from all competitions, just in case anyone thinks I am feeling left out.

Many thanks

Danté

[Danté]

Thanks David

A think about it, yep that´s a step

all the best

Tim

[David]

I’m perfectly happy to exclude myself from all competitions, just in case anyone thinks I am feeling left out.

No need for that. You stay in here and take your chances with the rest of us.

[Ros]

The point of perhaps having the nomination thread here beyond the end of the month, would be so it’s there right in the place one is working. And of course have one upstairs as well, we wouldn’t want any kind of implied favouritism, would we?

Tim, I still think you have the wrong end of the stick - the nom thread is under the IBPC forum, it's not in exp or beg. Absolutely on purpose - we made it that way from the beginning. And I post reminders in both forums. We've expressly tried to make it open to all, so I'm a bit upset you haven't viewed it that way.

Ros

[Danté]

Ros

Yes I can see your point, no upset intended simply a discusion.
I appologise if you feel I have made a remark that you have taken personally.

I am sure I am not the only one who sticks around just here and would be more comfortable if we had
the place for nominations right to hand. Also those of us who just have the beginner's page permanantly
in a browser window might forget such things as deadlines or simply not think of it at all.
A number of nominations have been put up by moderators, it would be nice if that extended to this
board as well, as would any other advantage that is present up top, by having the lion's share of
moderator input. I think we all want what's best for the forum as a whole, I think there is room for
imrovement and that is where I am coming from. If I did not give a toss about the place I'd keep it zipped.
It's a beginner's board, not a no go area.

thanks

Tim

[Ros]

Tim, I'm not taking it personally, and not offended - discussion is good. I think I'm right in saying mods certainly did nom from Beg last month.

I'm just hoping that people in Beginners do look around a bit. For example, we started the Exercises forum especially for people who wanted to stretch themselves a bit and try something different - and I see you have done a couple - but very few from Beg seem to have had a go. Perhaps it would help if those in Beg indicated if they wanted 'tougher', more serious crits, and the mods could have a go then. People vary: some want to write quickly and move on, some want to work at something for a while.

Plus, of course, if you're serious about going further, then you probably should look at the poems and the crits in Exp, and get a feel for what people think works. C'mon, change that bookmark!

Ros

[Danté]

No worries Ros,

Yes discussion can be useful.
I don't think it's the quality of the crits, it just seems that maybe a little more of this board being
a different place rather than a lesser place coming over could be a positive.
The Mods are generally respected, and as such their participation in all matters that exist on
either board ought to be reflecting that in equal measure in my view.

If nothing else it's got some thought happening, if one tiny improvement occurs it will
have been a worthwhile discussion.

all the best

Tim

[Cooper]

and it appears Lovely has gone.. phew. There's an improvement for both forums

[Elphin]

Tim

You have started a valuable thread. I'll be the first to confess I haven't been around this Board as much as I used to - but then Im not on the Experienced Board as much either, such do the other pressures of life wax and wane.

Good suggestion re the Nomination thread - Im not sure that technically we can have the thread appear in Beg Exp and in the IBPC forum. I'm sure Ros will continue to work on soliciting as many nominations as poss - I for one am really appreciative that she has taken on the coordination of the IBPC. Its early days and things will evolve. There is certainly no intent to exclude anything posted in Beg - as Ros said mes and suzanne were nominated last month. For some reason this month seems to be quieter in terms of nominations.

I dont think anyone posting in Beginners needs to feel they can't crit in Exp - certainly there is an open invitation to anyone to crit anything I post, if I ever get round to it. And I will cetainly get back to the Beginners board - there are many posters here that I enjoy interacting with, and you are on that list Tim.

thanks for prompting a friendly and polite debate - after some events in recent months its good to see we can all have these discussions without descending into rancour.

elph

[Danté]

Cooper

Your are of course welcome to join this debate.
I am hoping that you will reflect upon the personal nature of your comment here and edit it.
My reaction would be the same if it were posted by someone else and it said the same thing
about you.

all the best

Danté

[Danté]

Thanks Elp

Good to see you here.

Yes it's good to see that a discussion can occur without the carnage.
Most of the barriers that prevent people posting critique in experienced are of a person's own making.
As are most of the other issues that relate to moving up as far as I see it.
There have plainly been instances of people that have moved up by invitation to the detrement of
their creativity. I would dearly like to see that effect lessen and watch writers flourish in that
environment as they progress. I firmly beleive that an easier to perceive sense of equal value across the
two boards would go a long way towards people feeling less intimidated during their transition.
I am not suggesting that there has been any negative motive, simply a little oversight.
PG caters for a great diversity, that ought to be seen more clearly to have equal merit.
Perhaps then, a greater confidence would encourage more to participate in nominations and have
a desire to have work put along-side work put forward from experienced.

all the best

Tim

[Ros]

Come on though, get up there and vote!

[David]

I have started to go through some of the back numbers in Beginners and it's been an enjoyable experience. There is undoubtedly some good stuff there.

What I've also noticed is some gushing encomia (encomiums?) of poems that, personally, I don't think really deserve them, but that's the subjective beauty of the thing. There actually seems to be a flourishing mutual appreciation society there, which is interesting.

Anyway, my question really is why, if someone likes a particular poem so much, they don't nominate it for the IBPC. We're being completely democratic about the process - anyone can nominate anything, there is no moderator filtering going on, and you don't even need a seconder to be included in the monthly poll. The answer must, sadly, be what Tim suggests - that posters in Beginners feel in some way that IBPC is an "Experienced thing", and they might as well ignore it.

I wish they wouldn't.

I'd like the whole board to be a unified experience. It's difficult to organise that. If anyone thinks it could be organised better, please let us know. I, personally, promise to consider all suggestions. I don't promise to agree with them.

[ray miller]

I've a suggestion I fear won't find much favour. A unified experience would be more probable were there just A Board, no Beginners or Experienced.I'd prefer it that way, if only as a matter of principle, and I can imagine some arguments to the contrary but I also imagine all the people sharing all the world...

[Ros]

I think the problem there, ray, would be the matter of crits. I post stuff in Exp not because I think my poems are 'advanced' but because I want serious, detailed crits. I feel this is (or should be) the difference between the forums. So if I want that, I have to be willing and experienced enough with modern poetry to be able to do the same in return. This takes time to do properly and needs a familiarity with poetic terminology and structure. Not everyone wants this for their poems or has the time/experience to provide it for others, and that's as it should be.

Large general forums with a high throughput have a general tendency to attract many superficial comments and then the poems disappear off the end of the list.

Ros

[Danté]

I'm with Ros on the two board approach.

I don't think the level of critique is much of factor in any of the potential considerations.
Here are a couple of ideas. A reminder like the start of this thread in respect of nominations
could be placed here each month.
Posts that are obviously well written could attract an offer of being moved up from a moderator
providing there are no issues with the author's conduct in any other respect.
We see plenty of stuff coming down, but very little going the other way.
If that offer is applied when a moderator feels there is sufficient merit in the individual work
it might enable a better degree of interaction between the boards and give those who have
an element of wishing to gain some sense of achievement a small token of recognition.
It might require some additional text in respect of the board's overview, but it could serve
well in allowing those who take up an offer of having a piece moved up, to get a feel for
the experienced board without them putting presure on themselves to perform at that level
unless they are comfortable doing so. Not a golden ticket, simply an opportunity to dip a toe
into the water and get feel of the place. I don't see anything radically wrong with the current
set up, I do however think it could be maximised a little better and give a better overall
perception in respect of the initial queries I have raised.

As I say, just a couple of ideas

Tim

[JonJonJon]

Wow, that's some read guys . I would like to agree with the observation that sometimes people may feel they are obliged to like others poems if they are nice about theirs or vice versa. Open and honest feedback helps the most I think, the good and more importantly the bad. The trap is that sometimes you may like or not like a poem but you don't really understand why so it is hard to leave feedback other than 'I like it' and 'I hate it' best not shared.

[ray miller]

Ros I'm not trying to be difficult or make a big issue of this and I appreciate what you say about the tendency of general forums to have a high level of superficiality. As far as I'm aware though, people don't get invited in to the Experienced section due to the quality of their crits. I certainly didn't.(I slept with a Moderator, since you're wondering. Don't ask which one.) I don't regard my crits as being detailed, sometimes they are serious, and neither am I particularly well acquainted with modern poetic terminology. I suspect that a few others would feel similarly underqualified. Mostly, though, I just feel uncomfortable with the potential for elitism, although in practice I don't believethere is much.

[David]

I must admit that I am quite partial to the idea of just having one board, and always have been. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it might be.

On the other fora of which I have a little knowledge, one (PFFA - Stalinist dullards) is very strict on who posts where, and the other (Wild - nice people) lets anyone post anywhere, the only difference between boards being the level of criticism the poster is after. They do however have three boards, and rank beginners are encouraged to stay in the lower one.