As Twig is Bent

[Jasper]

Thanks for the read and comments folks.
Those whom know me know that this removal of my works is my normality!

J

[arunansu]

I liked the images, though I didn't enjoy the repetition at the end of each strophe. However, its a nice write. Great title.

[Jasper]

I didn't invent the form, A. Some dead bloke did! And the repetition's meant to exemplify cyclical/recurring natures/themes.

Thanx
J

[Ros]

Hi Jasp, Nice to see some of your work! I think this works well for what it is, but seems a bit quaint perhaps for modern readers? Doesn't seem to contain any of the slynesses and tricks you suggest we all put in our poems! Broth, toil, noble brow all seem to hark back to an earlier age. But if that's what you're aiming for, and I suspect you are, then it's good. I might take issue with 'hand made cloth' - did he really weave it himself? And I think someone so competent in the kitchen would know how long eggs took to boil - I suspect that line is there for the rhyme. Great title.

Ros

[stuartryder]

wasp, why isnt this in experienced?

[David]

Yep, good stuff, very old-fashioned as Ms. Ros has already pointed out, but that's fine by me. My only suggestion would be that the final stanza is a bit glib in terms of ostenatiously pulling things together, like the end of a sermon. Something more startling, maybe? Not changing the tone of the poem, which I like a lot, but ... something. Knoworramean? (Isn't that an Australian town?)

[Jasper]

Dunno, D... I wrote this so loooonnnng ago. And I lothe this Banana Repulic full of chummy rock-apes and ludites upon which I'm imprisoned by nothing more than birth...see the one I posted in Exp for more detail.

Thanxs all... I suck, and I know it!

J

I could have quiet easily done this

Of feet encased in muddy roots,
His ho' too long her turn and soil
Grey nurses seedlings’ - tender boots,
Behold a pieceful mind at toil.

[brianedwards]

This is much better than the one you posted in Experienced but probably not contemporary enough to suit either board really.

Just out of interest, who do you read?

B.

[Jasper]

What do I read?
People, my friend, like a book... and you're an ass with none other than an interest in your own mind!
I did warn you...just out of compounding interest of course

[brianedwards]

Warn me? I'm starting to think your name really is Jasper.

[Jasper]

In more ways than you can ever imagine, my fiend.

[Ros]

Keep it pleasant, chaps!

[Lovely]

Very dear Jasper, I like this so much.

Your 'heart' here for me is felt in an instant.

"Behold a peaceful mind at toil" is beautiful, the repeats for me are welcome in this
fine piece of work here. This was 'a pocket full of sunshine' for me. A sweet escape
to take me away, where my body cries and there are only butterflies.



Always love to know and indeed hear more.

All peace to you, Jasper.



L x

[Jasper]

Awww... you is so sweet, Lovely!
I've no certain voice nor preferred form... I actually tried to imagine being a woman when I wrote this!
Being a bloke all the time sucks... except when there's a good blue to be had.
Glad you like... but it's ancient! And I adore old world language... F--- novelty!
J

Ros...I love critisim. As long as it's rationally justified!
If not, it's on!
Mind you, I never carry grudges. I just get even and walk away.

[brianedwards]

Yep, no risk of any unpleasantness from me Ros. I only ever address the poem, never the poet. I felt on this occasion that the poem was too archaic for a contemporary poetry site and the question I put to the author was genuine.
No ill feeling intended towards Jasper and I'm sure there's none taken on his part.

B.

[Jasper]

The Poets' Graves Workshop... and I'm full of contempt for em

[Suzanne]

Jasper!

Yea! great to see something of yours.
I enjoyed the images are appreciate the repetition of pattern.

The title is great. A pleasant read.
Suzanne

[BenJohnson]

God it works for me Jasper. I read it all and enjoyed the read.

Stuff contemporary, there are no rules to say you should only write a certain way all the time. This is a 'workshop' isn't it and workshops generally contain writing exercises and experimentation, at least in the off-line world. For me every poem I write is an exercise and an attempt to do something different.

To me you have proved by this posting that you are capable of different styles and I appluade that.

[Lovely]

Very beautifully put Ben johnson. What you say is so true.


Warmth to you.

L x

[Jasper]

Am glad you like it, Ben.
I wish I could submitt much more but my hands are tied by HACKERS and SNITCHERS. Mind you, if they'd simply ask I'd give my works to them!

J

[brianedwards]

God it works for me Jasper. I read it all and enjoyed the read.

Stuff contemporary, there are no rules to say you should only write a certain way all the time. This is a 'workshop' isn't it and workshops generally contain writing exercises and experimentation, at least in the off-line world. For me every poem I write is an exercise and an attempt to do something different.

To me you have proved by this posting that you are capable of different styles and I appluade that.

Some truth in this, certainly Ben.
The site does claim to be a "Contemporary Poetry Forum, Creative Writing Workshop and Arts Discussion". The word contemporary appearing at the head of this title has perhaps affected my understanding of these boards.

That said, the idea that poetry should be written in contemporary or everyday language is not universal. the term "contemporary" is in itself problematic, suggesting, as it does, that it is possible to be something other than that: that it is possible to somehow exist contemporarily and yet be historic, non-contemporary.

In his preface to The Lyrical Ballads (1798), Wordsworth called for a poetic language that spoke to men in the language of men, in other words in accessible everyday language. The same volume contains Coleridge's "Ancient Mariner" in which the language was archaic even for the period in which it was written.

Keats defended his own use of archaic language thusly:

Therefore, if archaic words pervade my verse it is not out of a hope that taking recourse to such-like seeming affectations by themselves would lift my muse to sublime heights of the past; but, conversely, I poetise them mainly for reasons of effectual rhyming and in recognition of the fact that these discarded words had kept company with the best in literature. Furthermore, I feel secure in the knowledge that Spencer and Chaucer amongst many other of their ilk infused their inimitable writings with usage of archaic words; and therefore, I feel, by using any such words I am by no means committing any grave transgression which contemporary writing may find it difficult to digest.

This is particularly interesting when juxtaposed with T.S. Eliot's assertion that:

the past should be altered by the present as much as the present is directed by the past

Archaisms appear frequently in the modernism of Eliot and Pound, just as grammatical inversion is a common feature of much post-modern poetry (see John Ashbery, Frank O'Hara, for example).

However, what all of these writers share, from Wordsworth on, is I think, an interest in moving the art of poetry forward. Of course, this notion in turn presents us with a whole set of new problems and questions, but it is in addressing these questions that poetry can become something new. An awareness and adoption of past styles, trends, concerns etc, should not detract from this goal of newness. Creative and creation do, after all, share the same root. One cannot create something old, despite any amount of supposed creativity: 'tis mere repetition.

Excuse my ill-thought out ramblings.

B.

[brianedwards]

God it works for me Jasper. I read it all and enjoyed the read.

Stuff contemporary, there are no rules to say you should only write a certain way all the time. This is a 'workshop' isn't it and workshops generally contain writing exercises and experimentation, at least in the off-line world. For me every poem I write is an exercise and an attempt to do something different.

To me you have proved by this posting that you are capable of different styles and I appluade that.

Some truth in this, certainly Ben.
The site does claim to be a "Contemporary Poetry Forum, Creative Writing Workshop and Arts Discussion". The word contemporary appearing at the head of this title has perhaps affected my understanding of these boards.

That said, the idea that poetry should be written in contemporary or everyday language is not universal. the term "contemporary" is in itself problematic, suggesting, as it does, that it is possible to be something other than that: that it is possible to somehow exist contemporarily and yet be historic, non-contemporary.

In his preface to The Lyrical Ballads (1798), Wordsworth called for a poetic language that spoke to men in the language of men, in other words in accessible everyday language. The same volume contains Coleridge's "Ancient Mariner" in which the language was archaic even for the period in which it was written.

Keats defended his own use of archaic language thusly:

Therefore, if archaic words pervade my verse it is not out of a hope that taking recourse to such-like seeming affectations by themselves would lift my muse to sublime heights of the past; but, conversely, I poetise them mainly for reasons of effectual rhyming and in recognition of the fact that these discarded words had kept company with the best in literature. Furthermore, I feel secure in the knowledge that Spencer and Chaucer amongst many other of their ilk infused their inimitable writings with usage of archaic words; and therefore, I feel, by using any such words I am by no means committing any grave transgression which contemporary writing may find it difficult to digest.

This is particularly interesting when juxtaposed with T.S. Eliot's assertion that:

the past should be altered by the present as much as the present is directed by the past

Archaisms appear frequently in the modernism of Eliot and Pound, just as grammatical inversion is a common feature of much post-modern poetry (see John Ashbery, Frank O'Hara, for example).

However, what all of these writers share, from Wordsworth on, is I think, an interest in moving the art of poetry forward. Of course, this notion in turn presents us with a whole set of new problems and questions, but it is in addressing these questions that poetry can become something new. The above poem does not qualify as either modernist or post-modernist in its adoption of some "old-fashioned" poeticisms and so it is not the use of these techniques that causes any offence, but rather its failure to do anything novel.

An awareness and adoption of past styles, trends, concerns etc, should not detract from this goal of newness. Creative and creation do, after all, share the same root. One cannot create something old, despite any amount of supposed creativity: 'tis mere repetition.

Excuse my ill-thought out ramblings.

B.

[Jasper]

I like you much better when you ramble B
Poetry is a personal choice of passionate matter. And as such, authors should challenge both themselves and each other/s to top all of those dead shits.
They had their chance and say...and died, thank christ... YAYYYY!

Now it's OUR turn... and to me anything with pulse, pen and purpose qualifies as contemporary. Except Howard at PFFA who's the first 3 letters only of course! Maybe even the first four if one simply asks a Japanese tourist to say it really quickly *smirk*.

J

[Lovely]

Nice thread everyone. I like the purpose and goal to these discussions here as we are All learning and seeing more. This is good.

Very interesting. At times we need this to open out inside ourselves to see and feel more and eventually give more in the wonderful art
of poetry.

Loved the comments and the special mentions about the old poets........very nice indeed.

May we all learn to change dust into gold and become alchemists ourselves-------- as poets.


Cheers

L

[JonJonJon]

Behold a peaceful mind at toil. This definitely sums up my experience when reading such an emotionless, turgid and deeply dull poem. I searched for a point, to no avail.