Critting for Beginners - please read!

[Ros]

Looking at the recent posts in beginners, I thought it might be an idea to try to give some guidance on how to criticise poems and offer the right sort of advice for improvement, particularly for those new to writing and commenting on poems.

The comments in this forum are generally very friendly and encouraging but I think we could do more to help each other improve our work. So I thought you all like a go at this exercise to get the ball rolling. Please just add your thoughts to this thread.

Let’s Critique a Poem Together

This exercise is borrowed from “In the Palm of Your Hand” by Steve Kowit, via Wild Poetry Forum

The Missing of You Hurts

O you who were there all the time
to show how much you truly cared,
so that I knew you’d evermore be true,
and gladden my heart like the sun-kissed clime.

But left me like the tide goes out
and we can never stop it or get it repaired,
You are the only one I care so much about
and yet where is to be found another like you

when I look within myself or even out?
I often cry thinking of you know who,
and your last goodbye
And yet it is indeed to me a huge question mark why

you left me here to feel this way
like I am dead inside
making it the one and only happy day
where I can see your sweet hazel eyes and face.

So I wish you would come back to me
and the two of us wander the beach, happy and free,
for you know I still carry you in my heart
no matter even if you did that day depart.

Give your first impression of the poem.

Then:
1. Be honest, did you read the whole poem? If not where did you stop and why?
2. List one example of a cliché used.
3. List one example of an overused end-rhyme pair.
4. List one example of an archaic word used in this poem.
5. List one example of inversion of the syntax.
6. List one example of generic sentimentality.

Finally, give your critique of the poem.

The purpose of this exercise is not to teach you how to critique a poem, although it may do that, it is to show you bad poetic techniques. It will hopefully help you look more closely at what you are writing, and show you what to consider in the revision of your own work.

Ros

[Danté]

Ros,

I think this an informative addition to this board. My only concern is that perhaps there could be some people who are complete beginners wishing to
embark upon a writing and posting/critiquing experience, who have or feel they have a very rudimentary understanding of written language.

There is an openness within this board to be inclusive, which is self evident and I don't think I'm the only one who is perfectly happy to see
people replying in a manner they are comfortable with while exposing themselves to a wide range of replies which can guide them towards
what is an improved way of writing and a more analytical approach in reading and replying.

I'm not for one second suggesting that I advocate a back patting regime or an outlet for anyone's random drivel, but what I don't want to see
is a potential contributor to the forum feeling that they've got to become more informed before they can have a go here.

There is generally a strong likely hood that the obvious will pointed out to serial can't be arsed individuals while at the same time
those who are trying can be nurtured towards improving their approach.

I'm not suggesting your post is over bearing, I'm simply adding my thoughts as per the invite.

Kind regards

Danté

[Ros]

Tim,

I take your points, and would certainly not want to intimidate anyone who is just feeling their way in all this. On the other hand, I do feel that this forum sometimes has been a bit back-patting, perhaps because people don't have a feel for how to offer criticism. This exercise was an attempt to show the way forward there, as well as giving people something to think about for their own work.

I pinched the exercise (with permission) from a forum for beginners very like this one, where it had produced some thoughtful replies.

There is an equal danger, I think, of underestimating the ability of people here. I think once they have an idea of what works when critting, the quality of remarks will be very useful. We want to encourage those who want to improve and learn - it's always a bit scary trying to do something new, but I'd hope those who are keen will take the risk and give the exercises a go.

I know, the ideal is for the more experienced members to give long and thoughtful crits to everyone. And although many of us try, it is all voluntary and done in people's spare time, and we're just not covering everyone. So I thought some general guidance would be useful.

Ros

Your crits are always very thoughtful, by the way, and we do appreciate the effort you put into the forum.

[zootsuitmod]

I found this very interesting to read.
I struggle to crit, and believe I always take the easy option when having to write something about another persons work.
If there is a structure that can start you off on the road to writing valid and insightful criticism, then I for one would like help.

However!

Is 2010 to be open season on cliché, sentimentality and the use of the word archaic.
Who is the arbiter here? Who decides that a style is archaic? Why is cliché such a villan? And in this sh***y world we live in, what’s wrong with a little sentimentality? Explain please.
Or do we
want to see
Every piece on this board
Conforming to
A m o d (ern) ethos?

Surely criticism should take into account spelling, punctuation, grammar, metre, rhythm and structure, before having a pop at what the person writing the critisim feels is not to his or her own tatstes?

[Ros]

Is 2010 to be open season on cliché, sentimentality and the use of the word archaic.
Who is the arbiter here? Who decides that a style is archaic? Why is cliché such a villan? And in this sh***y world we live in, what’s wrong with a little sentimentality? Explain please

Because we're trying to write contemporary poetry, not verses for greetings cards.

[Lovely]

interesting. may a put a different input in. I have read in my extensive a lot of poetry (modern) full of kind semtiments and about love and
there's nothing wrong in that. Call it a modern form of Elton John's "Rocket Man" for instance. Of course, we may all be in danger of an
overbearing intellect if we fail to balance her with our heart. Intellect alone leads to madness, trust me I have been there!

I just thought I'd say. All very interesting. I think when we find this right balance we find a truly great artist in any form of art of which
poetry is second to none with the exception of divine music........a gift from the gods.

[Danté]

Ros,

Your notice here seems to be having some effect. I thought about your reply to my contribution and agree with the bulk of it and think the approach will ultimately encourage an approach that's closer to what occurs up top. If that is desirable, then I have seen little to convince me towards a contrary conclusion. I still have a few minor concerns and obviously appreciate that things find a natural balance over time. The balancing that I am a little concerned with is mainly the possibility of a budding poet having a piece slaughtered and I would include myself in suggesting that most of us have been a little guilty of that on the odd occasion.

For that reason I generally and have seen others do the same, try to find positives in every piece I read and make sure that they are also clearly stated.
My other concern is the amount of piss takers that seem to think it's OK to post without doing the minimum requirement of two crits. When the board is a little quiet it sometimes means that these posters get replies when other work that has been posted by people who do their fair share has to compete for attention.
I have no personal agenda in respect of these views other than things being fair for all, if I personally get no replies it's down to me and I can accept that.

Perhaps the time has arrived where anyone who posts without obeying the rules in respect of critique has their thread locked until such time as they either evaporate or wake up and smell the froth on the latte. It happens elsewhere, it has happened up top, but I cannot remember the last time it was enforced here.

regards

Tim

[Ros]

Tim,

We try to take the rule about number of crits fairly loosely - if people are joining in and pulling their weight, I don't go around strictly counting the ratio. We do sometimes have new people posting (to either board) a number of poems in a row without doing any crits. Generally this seems to be because they haven't read the guidelines. In the first instance I remind them of the rules, and often this is enough. Usually those who don't go on to do crits are not serious posters and after posting a few, they disappear.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that we do monitor the situation and try to resolve problems without coming down too hard and fast. Those who continue to post poems but are obviously not intending to participate do get banned (I think there have been three over the last couple of months), but we don't make a fuss about it and you may not have noticed what's happening, which is probably as it should be.

I'm a bit disappointed no one's had a go at the exercise, but people are thinking more closely about their poetry and I think the usefulness of crits has improved, so great!

Ros