Still

[R P Jackson]

Her stillness moves doubt’s blent air,
and in the gusts, brittle resolutions
turn on the axes of time and are lit
by the washed light of chance.
Her motion has made diversion
to earth where memory is muted
under the amnesia of a firebird,
conceived in embers of passion;
which so charmed did glow,
but could not come to rage
in the winds of intimacy.

In that misted space that resides
beneath the veil of a chill face,
where destinies adorned with promises
are disrobed and exposed as bare hopes,
their cheeks flushed with a hue
born by the death of lost philosophy,
I see her still.

[contains deet]

Hey RP,

I found this a little archaic in its language and approach, the use of inversions and such like. I also found it a little heavy, symbolically.

Ah! The old archaic V contemporary debate!

Alas that will never be solved, but look above you:

"Contemporary Poetry Forum, Creative Writing Workshop and Arts Discussion"

Is that argument enough to not post old fashioned type poems? I dunno. Personally I'm not over keen...

cheers
CD

[Alfie]

"Contemporary Poetry Forum, Creative Writing Workshop and Arts Discussion"
Is that argument enough to not post old fashioned type poems? I dunno. Personally I'm not over keen...

No, it's not! This is a poetry forum. Poetry, in itself, is one of the oldest art forms in history, dating back thousands of years. The forms we use: sonnets, haikus, and even meters, etc, are all 'old fashioned', to the point of some forms being hundreds or a couple thousand years old. So wouldn't the use of such forms be 'old fashioned'? Do you ask sonnets not to be posted? No. So why should a poem you term an 'old fashioned type' not be posted? It's a poem. And this is a forum for poetry. Stylistic choices should not be excluded just because they are not a 'contemporary type'. Sorry if that sounded harsh, it's just that that comment really annoyed me.

[sorry Jackson, for spamming your thread]

[contains deet]

So wouldn't the use of such forms be 'old fashioned'?

No they wouldn't and really shouldn't be!

See Tony Harrisons use of the "modern" sonnet.

Believe me Alfie, I wouldn't have bothered commenting if I didn't think the poem was old fashioned and out of place, which it clearly is.

As I said, this tired old debate will never be resolved, personally I'm on the side of bringing old forms into the contemporary arena, you obviously are not. Fair enough.

No hard feelings, just a difference of opinion, chill brother...

[Alfie]

No they wouldn't and really shouldn't be!

That was my point . . .

I am all for any style being brought into the contemporary arena, that's why I commented here on your comment that this poem shouldn't be here, because I believe all poetry has it's place, especially on a poetry forum, and that if a person's style is of 'old fashioned' type, then that's entirely up to them. If they like their style and can use it creatively, then why not use it?

/endsspam

I'll be back sometime to give some constructive criticism.

[contains deet]

especially on a poetry forum,

Ah, I see you missed that all encompassing word from your comment.

Contemporary on a contemporary poetry forum.

That I'm afraid is the crux of the cul-de-sac debate.

[R P Jackson]

Well, I'm terribly sorry to have been 'old-fashioned and out of place' ! I'll be sure to check out a few of your own pieces so as Imay learn how to be 'contemporary'.

[contains deet]

Please do.

And judging by your comments on Arnu's post, you certainly seem to know what you're talking about.

I have no wish to enter into petty arguments, I've been around forums for too long, some people can accept crit, some people can't, that's just the way it is.

[R P Jackson]

Now then, I'd never go so far as to say I know what I am talking about! Perhaps, however, it may prove useful to me if you could explain exactly what it was you found 'old fashioned'. I'll post something else I have written which you may find more to your liking, let's see what you think

[contains deet]

For sure:

Starter for 10, or maybe 5 or 4 ...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/blent

[contains deet]

turn on the axes of time

this sentence is odd, old fashioned in the sense that it uses axes instead of perhaps axis? Don't get it?

[contains deet]

which so charmed did glow,

Use of Inversion just totally unnecessary to my eye and ear? And yes, very old fashioned.

[contains deet]

under the amnesia of a firebird,

What does that mean? What symbollically is its use?

[R P Jackson]

Okay - 'the blent air of doubt' - 'blent' can either be considered an archaic term or a literary one - or both. Now, why would I knowlingly use an archaic term? Perhaps because I was trying to emphasise how 'old' and far reaching a concept was, in this case - doubt ? Now that I think about it, I've actaully stolen this from Larkin (in whose blent air all our compulsions meet...) whom was, of course, talking about an old church.

'Axes of time' , mostly because each 'resolution' is turning on its own axis, hence, with there being more than one, the plural (axes) kind of made sense.

RP.

[contains deet]

'blent' can either be considered an archaic term or a literary one

Well in the context of the poem I found it to be an archaic term...

Best draw a line under this, I'm bored now. I look forward to your contemporary posts.

cheers
CD

[nar]

Hey, RP.

Not getting involoved in the previous of this

"the amnesia of a firebird conceived in embers of passion"

... is a superb line.

Do I engage with this poem? Not entirely. You do have a few abstactions that ar a little tricky to interpret.

Nonetheless,

"misted space that resides beneath the veil of a chill face"

is pretty good, friend.

Got any more?

- Neil.

[R P Jackson]

Ah - inversion; I agree to some extent, but only when it is either over used or used in order to form a rhyme.

As for the firebird... If you wish to understand this symbollically, I suggest you aquaint yourself with Stravinsky's breakout piece (The Firebird) or any number of the thousands of mythical stories about firebird's, and how they become both a curse and blessing to their captors.

RP.

[contains deet]

I suggest you aquaint yourself with Stravinsky's breakout piece (The Firebird)

Fair comment. Do you know what, i'd love to, but I bet i don't!

[R P Jackson]

[Alfie]

Her stillness moves doubt’s blent air, >'blent' works a lot better than 'blended' would, rhythm-wise, so I agree with it's use.
and in the gusts, brittle resolutions > this is vague - what resolutions? How are they brittle? Show us this rather then telling it.
turn on the axes of time and are lit
by the washed light of chance. >I can't really see this - 'chance' is a vague word that doesn't really link to much of an image, let along one that's washed in light. Maybe expand this idea some more?
Her motion has made diversion
to earth where memory is muted >either 'diversion' needs to be a plural, you need to put an 'a' before 'diversion', or this word needs to change because it reads awkwardly.
under the amnesia of a firebird, > I love this line. Though, the next line makes me think of it more as a phoenix with 'conceived in embers'.
conceived in embers of passion; > 'embers works well with your firebird image, I think, but this phrase is rather cliche and 'passion' is vague unless expanded upon. Allow us to see this passion; use the senses, make it come alive, let us feel it too.
which so charmed did glow,
but could not come to rage > this is vague, too - it's avery strong emotion that is very easily skipped over here - allow us to feel this rage, see it. Maybe expand on this?
in the winds of intimacy. >these last three lines flow really well, and I, personally, like the inversion used here. The metaphor is in the past, and the use of this technique adds to the idea that it's in the past and didn't work out. 'Intimacy' could be expanded upon, same as 'passion' because it doesn't show us anything really and is an abstraction rather than an emotion the reader can key into.

In that misted space that resides >the repetition of that word makes this line read rather clunkily. Maybe change the second 'that' to 'which'?
beneath the veil of a chill face,
where destinies adorned with promises > this is cliche and vague. Show us the promises, connect this back to the last stanza, and avoid vague abstractions that don't show us anything. I can't see destinies or promises, they're just 'poetic-sounding' words that don't really do much.
are disrobed and exposed as bare hopes, >'hopes' is vague, but 'derobed' gives it a nice visual touch which connects nicely to 'veil'. With some development of the previous line, 'hopes' could work well and not stand out so much as being a vague abstraction.. [/color]
their cheeks flushed with a hue >little bit of a cliche - try rephrasing or find another word for 'flushed'?
born by the death of lost philosophy,
I see her still.

I liked this a lot, but I agree with Nar that there are a fair amount of vague abstractions in there that don't add anything to the poem. Your imagery, in places, was wonderfully intricate, shown by how you use connections and allusions, but many of the abstarctions could be expanded upon with imagery to make this a lot more alive. The abstractions are what's holding it back.

As far as I can tell, your rhythm is good, and, except for a few places where I pointed out, it reads really well when read aloud. I think you have a fair amount of control over your work here; you seem to know what you're doing and are aware of the connections you're making, which is more than I can say for my own work. I have no idea what most of my work is about. xD

Looking forward to reading more of your work, and also, a very late welcome to PG.

[R P Jackson]

Thanks Alfie,

That's hugely helpful - I'll take everything you say into consideration when redrafting (though do disagree re a couple of points!)

Hopefully get your view on the evetual redraft as well!

Yours,

R.

[Ros]

Welcome RP - missed the earlier passion on this one but glad it seems to have resolved amicably! I think Alfie has made a lot of good points - I enjoyed your poem, but agree it's a bit heavy on rather portentous abstractions. A little more of the personal might make it resonate more with the reader.

Ros