Poetry Forum

You are the breath and the beat of me,
The eat and the sleep of me.
My morning, my night,
My hearing, my sight.

The wanton and chaste of you,
The touch and the taste of you,
Your sense and your smell,
My heaven, my hell.

Hello Nicky

Bad idea to put a question mark in the title, especially if you do not resolve it by the end of the poem.
Line by line:
L1 you are starting with "you" which means that this poem is written for someone, I assume someone you like, why should the reader - who does not know who that person is, as you are not SHOWING who this person is- care? poems written in second person rarely work.
L2 eat of me? Really? Does that sound correct to you?
You are telling too much, you need to learn how to show.
Same goes to lines 3-4 too much telling l, instead show how you can't sleep, eat or how is he your day and night.
Second stanza again telling, telling and telling.
Last lines heaven and hell are major abstractions. We don't know what really is hell or heaven. Use some solid images. This poem can be appreciated by a person who you wrote it to.
Thank you for sharing.
Nino

I quiet like the question mark in the title to signify to reader to be aware of the your use of double entendres here.

You are the breath and the beat of me,...I'd use a contraction to pun the first word here (you're>< yaw) and even out the meter to match the V2.
The eat and the sleep of me. (7 sylls)
My morning, my night, (5 sylls)
My hearing, my sight.... Not sure sight works sensibly here. How about kite?

The wanton and (the) chaste of you, (8 sylls)
The touch and the taste of you, (7 sylls)
Your sense and your smell, (5 sylls)
My heaven, my hell. (5 sylls)

Has that Elizabeth Barret,'Let Me Count The Ways,' tenor to it. With the feel of Jodie Miller's, 'He Hit Me (and it felt like a kiss),' of course.

enjoyed The Honeymoon Syndrome of it.
M

Hi Nino,

Wow, you pull no punches, fair enough though and welcomed. I want to learn. You are completely right about too much showing, I have a real problem doing this, I tend to lay everything bare, but I know I must improve here. Subtlety not my strong point.

In response to the other comments firstly the poem is written for someone but it is the not the person I’m asking you to relate to, it’s the feeling: the engulfing of your conscious and subconscious being by this alternate emotion which is totally irrational and unstoppable. Hasn't everyone felt that?

Eat of me – you have a very good point, it doesn't work well, but I couldn’t see a way around this. Eat is meant in 3 ways: the necessity to my continued life; sexually; and finally to suggest the all consuming nature of the feeling, devouring reason etc. I guess this doesn’t come across so there is clearly a problem. Any suggestions how to improve this? It’s interesting that you didn’t object to breath of me, beat of me or sleep of me.

I don’t really understand your point about heaven and hell. We don’t really know what lots of things are, for example love, happiness, misery, all mean different things to different people in different situation and at different times. Surely we can’t just wipe out the use of words based on their lack of clear definition? You must get the point I'm trying to make here?

The title question is not resolved in the poem as I don’t know the answer. Is it lust, is it love, is it indigestion, or perhaps just the remnants of last nights beer? That’s kind of the point, it’s up to the individual to decide (most people tend toward love as it provides a cloak of respectability, which is what I find interesting).

I appreciate you weren’t exactly crazy for these words but if you could help me out by following up on some of my questions I’d really appreciate it.

Thank you again,

Nicky B
p.s. Thanks for the positive feedback Meesha!!

The eat of me" is just fine. In fact

You are the breath and the beat of me,
The eat and the sleep of me.

The wanton and chaste of you,
The touch and the taste of you,

would be lovely sung by someone like Ella Fitzgerald.
The other lines, I'm afraid, would need to be made more interesting.

Dear Nicky
You have handled critique very well, which means you want to learn. I am not good to teach you as I am new too.
You did not understand about showing. Point of the poem is to show not to tell. Show things in solid images. Your verbs are not original and active.
Yes love, life, death and many more are abstractions, they kill the poem. Instead show me hell without mentioning it in solid images which touch my five senses: smell, touch, vision, taste and sound.
If you have no book google abstractions and there are interesting and helpful topics about them. It will at least get you started.
Bear in mind if you are told each time that you are good and I like it and all this, thank them and don't take it to your head. While it is good to be praised, it will not help you to go forward, there is always room for improvement. If someone likes the poem they need to tell you exactly why, otherwise it means they did not give it a good thought.
Thank you
Nino

Hello NickyB,

You obviously have a good ear for rhyme and rythm, it doesn't miss a beat.

I agree with Ray that 'the eat and the sleep of me' is a good line, but I feel that it is lacking something as a whole. The feelings that you are dealing with are quite universal and I'm sure that we can all identify with them, but I think that to engage the reader you need to come up with a more original way of showing us those feelings.

Looking forward to reading more from you.

Nash.

I really like the rhythm in this too. And you have expressed that feeling of wanton desire very well here. Like the word Wanton.

ray miller wrote:You are the breath and the beat of me,
The eat and the sleep of me.

The wanton and chaste of you,
The touch and the taste of you,

would be lovely sung by someone like Ella Fitzgerald.

Well, to be honest, what Nicky has done is rewrite - or reheat - "All of You" ...

I love the look of you, the lure of you
The sweet of you, and the pure of you
The eyes, the arms, and the mouth of you
The east, west, north, and the south of you
I'd love to gain complete control of you
Handle even the heart and soul of you
Love at least a small percent of me do
'Cause I love all of you

And it is lovely when sung by Ella Fitzgerald. Almost everything is.

But you could definitely consider using more verbs next time, Nicky.

And I would pretty much ignore everything nino has said. I'm sure he means well - at least, I hope he means well - but I've no idea who he is and I've seen nothing yet to suggest that he knows what he's talking about. (No offence, nino.) Some of the things he's parroting make sense, but he seems to be applying them in such an unintelligent and insensitive way that they're of no use to anyone.

Listen to Ray and Nash instead. Meesha, even.

Cheers

David

I thought Nino's second post about abstractions was pretty much on the ball, actually. When discovering poetry, people often write in abstractions - love, soul, grief, pain - because they think that will make it appeal to more people - we've all felt them. But actually it's the personal detail, the close observations, that resonate with a reader and make it all come alive.

Ros

Ros wrote:I thought Nino's second post about abstractions was pretty much on the ball, actually.

Oh God, Ros. Not seriously? If this place is going to be taken over by the likes of nino and his half-baked mantras ...

You are the breath and the beat of me,
The eat and the sleep of me.

I thought that was a very nice thought, especially the second line.
The two following lines (and this is just my opinion) are a little predictable and lacking the vision you have captured in the first two lines,
They work fine! that's just my two cents is all.
Keep up the good work.
RM

Dear David

I do apologise for coming across as harsh, but if you read my critiques they were not designed to personally insult any one. I was commenting on writer's work not his/her persona, while it came out as harsh, it was not a personal attack on anyone. Since this is a workshop and not a chatroom, would be nice to let the writer decide whether he/she wants to take on board what I suggest. I am no expert, in fact far from it, but I am learning and also offering what I -as a reader think. I do appreciate your enthusiasm to defend fellow writer, but between me and you, you are the one who ventured in to personal attack and worse talking and mentioning my name in conversation with mod.
This makes me think you are not serious about writing.

I am her not him (should have made introduction before posting )
I do apologise for taking this thread to wrong direction, I just want to make a point, I am not for fun here, but learning and improving my work and if I can help someone on the way fine, if not fine. Let the writer decide whether to take my advise lr ditch it.
Regards
Nino

Well, Nino, perhaps I spoke too harshly to you - or of you. I confess I am somewhat disarmed by your revelation that you are in fact a nina, not a nino. I am old-fashioned enough - and old enough - for that. So, for my discourteous response, in somewhat ad hominem terms, I apologise.

Of my disliking for your critical approach, and (I repeat, somewhat ironically) your parroting of tiresome maxims of poetic self-improvement such as "show, don't tell" and "avoid abstractions", I retract nothing. Yes, those are good things to remember. But they should be remembered, not trotted out ad nauseam.

So go your way, young Nino. Let's see how you get on. I'm impressed by your ability to be so annoying, so quickly, in what is not your first language. That can only bode well.

Two other observations for you:

1. "Poems written in second person rarely work" ... what? Who told you that? Where are you getting this stuff from?

2. Most people who post here are busy people with busy lives. Time is valuable. A simple "I like it" from someone I respect means more to me, and lets me know clearly that I am on the right track (or, often, the wrong one), than two lengthy paragraphs of regurgitated critical guff from somebody else.

And, with further apologies for hijacking your thread Nicky, I'll leave it there. Ciao, Nina. All the best. Really.

David

Nino wrote:I am not for fun here

Big mistake. Very big. Massive. We are all for fun here, otherwise what's the point? What is the bleeding point?

Have fun, dear Nino. I insist.

David wrote: Of my disliking for your critical approach, and (I repeat, somewhat ironically) your parroting of tiresome maxims of poetic self-improvement such as "show, don't tell" and "avoid abstractions", I retract nothing. Yes, those are good things to remember. But they should be remembered, not trotted out ad nauseam.

Applause here David.

David oh I so don't want to argue with you, but I have to say. I have fun when I read or play with my son and do many many other things which are irrelevant for the matter at hand. But I want to become a writer one day, so when I write or analyse poem firstly I think seriously and leave fun for later if my job is done well.
Writing might just be a hobby for you, which is great. I am busy too, but I still take time to comment thoroughly.
As for repeating about abstractions and such, as we are in beginners section many newcomers don't know about them- as I did not know myself before and don't know many things. I will be glad if someone teaches me more.

As for being satisfied with just : I like it and such, don't you want to know what exactly works for the reader? For all I know person hasn't even read it.

Well you know we can debate till morning, but since you are so busy and I seem to have all the time in the world at hand and since there are always so many different points of view, shell we put away our weapons? Since I apologised.
Nino

I use to natter online with a greek poetess once upon a time. And might I say due to english not being her native language, nor greek being mine, we'd argued like cats and dogs due to nothing more a loss in both our translations of each others phraseology.

That said and this trivial matter hopefully dead and buried, why is it that writers of rhyme and verse are chastised for using abstractions whereas it is (or seems to me at least) an accepted norm in free verse?

M

Thank you Meesha:)
Nicky will comeback to find a battlefield in here.

Meesha wrote:
That said and this trivial matter hopefully dead and buried, why is it that writers of rhyme and verse are chastised for using abstractions whereas it is (or seems to me at least) an accepted norm in free verse?

M

Perhaps you'd like to post that in the discussions thread Meesha?

B.

Hi Nicky,

I'd say it was love, actually!

You expressed and engaged. I liked the flow but the metre made me feel as though an extra line was needed at the end of each stanza, like, dare I say, a limerick form. but what do I know!

Enjoyed! Thanks for sharing

Pete

I like the first line, very nice. The rest is as well, and the last line seems a bit cliche.

Thanks for posting

Dana

Thank you for all the comments. It’s interesting and unsurprising to me that the first two lines were most enjoyed. These were just in my head when I woke up, and the rest i had to actively seek out. This happens a lot with me. I get words in my head that feel right, then I try to follow them up and it falls apart – any advice on this? I have about 30 two line poems, that I destroy when I try to complete.

I was a bit gutted to read the Ella Fitzgerald lyrics. I don’t consciously remember hearing this, although maybe I did and it registered in my subconscious and this is where the words came from that morning. Is anything we do ever truly original, didn’t someone once say that?

As for Nino, My two penny worth – As an absolute beginner (this is my first proper attempt at a poem, I’ve never shared any of my ramblings with anyone, and never been near a forum) I found some of her comments helpful, and especially the discussion which followed re: abstraction. I know nothing about this. But perhaps mellowing out a bit may help, you do sound a little cross. In my experience to do anything well, firstly you have to enjoy it.