This a partial revision...just the first two verses. The primary difference..use of (approximately) Standard Meter.
The tires slowly churn
the washboard stirring up the dust,
metal clatters, clangs
as a slew of trucks, painted rust,
halt, doors open, shut, slam bang
The tools to fight the burn
rooted out of the pickup beds,
shovels, gunny sacks,
stuttering flames cough smoke thin threads
smear the sky with grimy tracks
The tires slow churn
washboard, swirling clouds of dust,
metal clatters, clangs
as slew of trucks, painted rust,
halt, doors open, shut, slam bang
Tools to fight the burn
rooted out of pickup beds,
shovels, gunny sacks,
stuttering flames cough smoke; dread
columns of sky blotting black
The wind wavers, turns,
as the Brigade cut the line
free of brush and grass,
thin strips of scraped earth confines
fuel beyond the fire's grasp
Tense, with grave concern,
trudge, bent double, chop and hack
close in heat soaked hell
the fighters yell, flag, fall back
when flames surge in wind teased swells
Effort bought return
the brush fire is surrounded
easy tinder scratched
the Brigade stamps, beats, pounds,
kicks last ember in cold ash
A tall, cold one earned
the ice chest rummaged for beer
Yo, cavalry is here!
there is a wild ragged cheer,
Forestry air craft appears
All eyes turn skyward
toward the engine's drone,
isolated, not alone,
If small blaze, seedling monster,
escapes the Irregulars,
Forestry fire fighters
join in battle for their homes.
Revised as per Kim..I deleted the first draft because there was enough material here for an epic poem..I will repost it if anyone wants to see the one deleted stanza, and various word changes..
Rust Bucket Brigade (REVISED 2)
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juliadebeauvoir
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Well written and liked the rhythm.
So take my critique for what its worth. I just would like to see a little more passion in your fire.
Cheers,
Kim
Your use of language is very good and each verse sets up the next. Couldn't help but feel something was missing from this. Can't put my finger on it but it seemed to lack emotion (fires can be pretty frightening things) and it had a very pat ending. The fire put out, now we can all go home.Tools to fight the burn
rooted out of pickup beds,
shovels, gunny sacks,
(while the --Might leave that out.We know that the flames are there at the same time.)
flames cough, hack smoke; dread
columns of sky blotting black
So take my critique for what its worth. I just would like to see a little more passion in your fire.
Cheers,
Kim
"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you."
Rye,
Welcome to the board.
This is pretty vivid at points and it had me going. However, I felt some of the links were a bit too staccato. For instance:
Tense, with grave concern,
trudge, bent double, chop and hack
close in heat soaked hell - I quite liked the lack of pronoun here, but it did hamper the read somewhat. The danger with the passage is that you as a writer are in a zone the reader is not. I'm sure, as you were writing this, you knew exactly what were tense and who trudged, but you don't elaborate the scene sufficiently. This part works, but I just think at points (and you do this in other parts of the poem) the writer is one or two steps ahead of the reader.
And there are some problems with your verbs too. Take the stanza above:
thin strips of scraped earth confines
fuel beyond the fire's grasp - confines hasn't got the right inflection. It's a singular, not a plural. So either 'a thin strip' or 'confine' would work, but not 'confines'.
And you confuse tenses occasionally:
Effort bought return
the brush fire is surrounded - is 'bought' right? Shouldn't it be 'buys'?
These are just some examples of a few mistakes. On the whole this is pretty clean, and whilst the rhyme does create some odd constructions, generally it works and isn't very noticeable.
I won't talk about your style, since that's not in my jurisdiction. Well, I will for a moment. I think there is too much action in this. Often nice moments of potential poetry are pushed aside to develop the narrative. Because of that (and this is what i think Kim had problems with) the scene isn't really set and instead it's too dream-like, which isn't helped by the lack of pronouns and 'proper' (whatever that is) syntax. But don't change your style, just try to linger on things and let the reader catch up.
I would however ditch the second last stanza if guided by personal preference, because it undermines the conclusion to an extent (and reads like a Budweiser advertisement).
But good post --
I'll keep an eye out for this one to see how it develops.
Dave
Welcome to the board.
This is pretty vivid at points and it had me going. However, I felt some of the links were a bit too staccato. For instance:
Tense, with grave concern,
trudge, bent double, chop and hack
close in heat soaked hell - I quite liked the lack of pronoun here, but it did hamper the read somewhat. The danger with the passage is that you as a writer are in a zone the reader is not. I'm sure, as you were writing this, you knew exactly what were tense and who trudged, but you don't elaborate the scene sufficiently. This part works, but I just think at points (and you do this in other parts of the poem) the writer is one or two steps ahead of the reader.
And there are some problems with your verbs too. Take the stanza above:
thin strips of scraped earth confines
fuel beyond the fire's grasp - confines hasn't got the right inflection. It's a singular, not a plural. So either 'a thin strip' or 'confine' would work, but not 'confines'.
And you confuse tenses occasionally:
Effort bought return
the brush fire is surrounded - is 'bought' right? Shouldn't it be 'buys'?
These are just some examples of a few mistakes. On the whole this is pretty clean, and whilst the rhyme does create some odd constructions, generally it works and isn't very noticeable.
I won't talk about your style, since that's not in my jurisdiction. Well, I will for a moment. I think there is too much action in this. Often nice moments of potential poetry are pushed aside to develop the narrative. Because of that (and this is what i think Kim had problems with) the scene isn't really set and instead it's too dream-like, which isn't helped by the lack of pronouns and 'proper' (whatever that is) syntax. But don't change your style, just try to linger on things and let the reader catch up.
I would however ditch the second last stanza if guided by personal preference, because it undermines the conclusion to an extent (and reads like a Budweiser advertisement).
But good post --
I'll keep an eye out for this one to see how it develops.
Dave
Thank You Wabznasm
1) Verbs ..Your pointers helped..That "dreamlike" quality has puzzled me..it makes tense and pronoun hard to define. That does need to be fixed.
2) The Focus..I hadn't thought of reducing the action as the way to achieve clarity The theme and action/time are too large. I have vowed to confine future poems to a more focused point. I noticed Robert Frost's poem about scything/mowing, the action was either less than a minute or for all eternity. At least I learned that from this tangled epic.
3) I will rework the last two verses as neither are in the pattern of the first
4) Style..I will try to smooth out where I can see it is forced or the syntax is convoluted.
Rewrite..see what I can do ..
1) Verbs ..Your pointers helped..That "dreamlike" quality has puzzled me..it makes tense and pronoun hard to define. That does need to be fixed.
2) The Focus..I hadn't thought of reducing the action as the way to achieve clarity The theme and action/time are too large. I have vowed to confine future poems to a more focused point. I noticed Robert Frost's poem about scything/mowing, the action was either less than a minute or for all eternity. At least I learned that from this tangled epic.
3) I will rework the last two verses as neither are in the pattern of the first
4) Style..I will try to smooth out where I can see it is forced or the syntax is convoluted.
Rewrite..see what I can do ..
Last edited by rye on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rye, your poems remind me of John Ford's cavalry (not "calvary"!) films, in the honour they do to what, in my ignorance, I believe Americans might still refer to as ordinary working Joes. Is that still right?
There is an urgency to your writing that reminds me of some First World War poetry - specifically this, I think:
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
Does that speak to you at all?
Dave, as usual, has given you a few good pointers. I think your problem is going to be retaining the excitement, the urgency of what you write without being so grammatically lax. Just take your opening lines as a ferinstance:
The tires slow churn
washboard, swirling clouds of dust,
The tires are slow? They churn slow(ly)? They churn washboard? What can that mean? Do they swirl the clouds of dust, or are the swirling clouds of dust a separate entity?
You see? Too much ambiguity, but I'd hate to see you lose the immediacy of your writing to a tired grammatical correctness.
But that's your challenge, sir!
Good luck
David
There is an urgency to your writing that reminds me of some First World War poetry - specifically this, I think:
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
Does that speak to you at all?
Dave, as usual, has given you a few good pointers. I think your problem is going to be retaining the excitement, the urgency of what you write without being so grammatically lax. Just take your opening lines as a ferinstance:
The tires slow churn
washboard, swirling clouds of dust,
The tires are slow? They churn slow(ly)? They churn washboard? What can that mean? Do they swirl the clouds of dust, or are the swirling clouds of dust a separate entity?
You see? Too much ambiguity, but I'd hate to see you lose the immediacy of your writing to a tired grammatical correctness.
But that's your challenge, sir!
Good luck
David
Dave
The setting for this poem is isolated farm communities in California. Municipal Fire Departments are located in small towns. The roads are narrow, twisting lanes. It takes quite a while for the official fire crews to arrive at a grass/brush fire that may have started in some far pasture, the only final approach being a washboard dirt track. There is a mix of Federal and Private property so there is usually a fire look-out tower and a local Ranger stationed within the community or nearby. It was customary, when smoke was spotted for the Ranger to call three groups: Town Fire Department, The Federal Forestry Department (cavalry) and the Local Store. The Local Store owner had a list of all the neighbors and would call each one, stating the approximate location of the fire. All the neighbors hastened to the fire, usually being the first to arrive and would leave when the Professionals arrived. The Brigades were trained and supervised by the Ranger but were not officially..official. Often, small blazes, in some cases 4-5 in the course of a summer, were extinguished by the local bucket brigades before the forestry reconnaissance planes or the Town Engines arrived. It is an analogy to isolated frontier settlements under siege, banded together for protection/mutual assistance. Isolated/not alone...The Cavalry rides in..flag waving..and that bugle. It is a modern instance of an American myth aka John Ford Western. This has changed. That may be the problem with the tense..
Cavalry..Thank You!, I did research that. Not knowing the correct spelling, the dictionary wasn't much use and it is often mispelt on many web sites"The Sioux and the 7th Calvary clashed in the Battle of the Little Big Horn in 1876." I knew it was incorrect, I just didn't know where to find the correct spelling.
That poem you posted..I liked it very much..I am studying Robert Frost now...how he handles epics and myths but I will research that poem..
The setting for this poem is isolated farm communities in California. Municipal Fire Departments are located in small towns. The roads are narrow, twisting lanes. It takes quite a while for the official fire crews to arrive at a grass/brush fire that may have started in some far pasture, the only final approach being a washboard dirt track. There is a mix of Federal and Private property so there is usually a fire look-out tower and a local Ranger stationed within the community or nearby. It was customary, when smoke was spotted for the Ranger to call three groups: Town Fire Department, The Federal Forestry Department (cavalry) and the Local Store. The Local Store owner had a list of all the neighbors and would call each one, stating the approximate location of the fire. All the neighbors hastened to the fire, usually being the first to arrive and would leave when the Professionals arrived. The Brigades were trained and supervised by the Ranger but were not officially..official. Often, small blazes, in some cases 4-5 in the course of a summer, were extinguished by the local bucket brigades before the forestry reconnaissance planes or the Town Engines arrived. It is an analogy to isolated frontier settlements under siege, banded together for protection/mutual assistance. Isolated/not alone...The Cavalry rides in..flag waving..and that bugle. It is a modern instance of an American myth aka John Ford Western. This has changed. That may be the problem with the tense..
Cavalry..Thank You!, I did research that. Not knowing the correct spelling, the dictionary wasn't much use and it is often mispelt on many web sites"The Sioux and the 7th Calvary clashed in the Battle of the Little Big Horn in 1876." I knew it was incorrect, I just didn't know where to find the correct spelling.
That poem you posted..I liked it very much..I am studying Robert Frost now...how he handles epics and myths but I will research that poem..
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kozmikdave
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- Posts: 2185
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:36 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Gidday
Much has been said already - good, sound advice.
I thought it interesting that you used "washboard" for the condition of the road. In Aus, we call it corrugated. I knew what you were getting at though when I read it.
I thought there was much in this that was clever, but the staccato did slow me down. The title was sweet - fitted perfectly.
The poem very topical in California this year but we also suffer from similar b(r)ush fires every other summer. We just don't have the Hollywood mansions to burn.
Much has been said already - good, sound advice.
I thought it interesting that you used "washboard" for the condition of the road. In Aus, we call it corrugated. I knew what you were getting at though when I read it.
I thought there was much in this that was clever, but the staccato did slow me down. The title was sweet - fitted perfectly.
The poem very topical in California this year but we also suffer from similar b(r)ush fires every other summer. We just don't have the Hollywood mansions to burn.
Cheers
Dave
"And I'm lost, and I'm lost
I'm lost at the bottom of the world
I'm handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I'm lost at the bottom of the world
" [Tom]
Dave
"And I'm lost, and I'm lost
I'm lost at the bottom of the world
I'm handcuffed to the bishop and the barbershop liar
I'm lost at the bottom of the world
" [Tom]
SECOND REVISION ..two verses ..what thinkest thou? before I revise the entirety. The focus must be clarified so complete revision will take some thought and time..and I don't want to commit before I get an opinion on the first two verses..
Kozmikdave:
In America, "washboard" is like "asphalt"...one word that means "road" We use corrugated but so far, not alone..always corrugated or cordoroy road..possibly because "corrugated" describes cardboard.
Fires...the Bucket Brigades do not fight fires in heavy brush, strong wind or in trees. Light wind, light brush and grass are the conditions usually found on a summer day around farming communities in California..otherwise the heavy equipment, well trained fighters do the fighting. There are Eucalyptus in California. I have heard from experts the fumes from burning Eucalyptus are toxic so the Foresty would fight those fires. As firewood, it pops and smokes. I would run the other way if the "Eucs" were burning..but brush and grass..pasture fires or roadside burns are not that difficult to extinguish with a bit of training and proper supervision.
Kozmikdave:
In America, "washboard" is like "asphalt"...one word that means "road" We use corrugated but so far, not alone..always corrugated or cordoroy road..possibly because "corrugated" describes cardboard.
Fires...the Bucket Brigades do not fight fires in heavy brush, strong wind or in trees. Light wind, light brush and grass are the conditions usually found on a summer day around farming communities in California..otherwise the heavy equipment, well trained fighters do the fighting. There are Eucalyptus in California. I have heard from experts the fumes from burning Eucalyptus are toxic so the Foresty would fight those fires. As firewood, it pops and smokes. I would run the other way if the "Eucs" were burning..but brush and grass..pasture fires or roadside burns are not that difficult to extinguish with a bit of training and proper supervision.
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Jack Cloverfield
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I've been itching to crit this, but fall short of anything constructive thats not too distructive (sorry, poor pun)
Anyway, I much prefer the short version. It's cleaner and much more precise. There was too much rambling before I felt. just a couple of things that stick out now though...
halt, doors open, shut, slam bang not keen on 'slam bang'. Either a hyphen connecting the two or a semi after 'slam' to increase impact of 'bang'
stuttering flames cough smoke thin threads
rise, streaking the sky with black 'cough smoke thin threads rise' feels like it needs a break. Perhaps after 'smoke', a comma?
As I said, much more impact with it being shorter. Just needs a bit of a kick to boost the imagery more.
Hope this helps
Jack
Anyway, I much prefer the short version. It's cleaner and much more precise. There was too much rambling before I felt. just a couple of things that stick out now though...
halt, doors open, shut, slam bang not keen on 'slam bang'. Either a hyphen connecting the two or a semi after 'slam' to increase impact of 'bang'
stuttering flames cough smoke thin threads
rise, streaking the sky with black 'cough smoke thin threads rise' feels like it needs a break. Perhaps after 'smoke', a comma?
As I said, much more impact with it being shorter. Just needs a bit of a kick to boost the imagery more.
Hope this helps
Jack
Rye, thanks for the explanation. The washboard! That makes sense now. We're saving our pennies at the moment, to see if we can get to Californiay next year, so I might be looking out for a washboard then.
Cheers
David
Cheers
David