He had an accent thicker than chocolate
and an old spit soaked drawl;
told me all about when he were a lad,
his cigarette card collection,
saturdays at the football,
him and his dad, trekking over
miles and miles
of fields and hills,
that seemed like they'd never end.
In communal gardens; he spends his time
blinking at the sun, along with
the other old forgetful flowers,
lost in translation.
(revision)
He had an accent thicker than chocolate;
irish. Didn't get the chance to ask where
before he started, madder than a cut snake
in his old spit soaked drawl.
Talking about when he were young
taking a fall for democracy,
In the garden; he spends all his time
smelling the old, forgetful flowers
that smile into the fresh sun,
lost in translation.
Original
He had an accent thicker than chocolate;
Irish. Didn't get the chance to ask where,
before he started ranting and raving.
Madder than a cut snake, in his old spit
soaked drawl. Talking about when he were young,
And taking a fall for democracy.
In the garden; where he spends all his time
around old, forgetful flowers, smiling
into the fresh sun, lost in translation.
have decided to stick to the orginal structure since im messing around with iambic pentameter, wanted that to stay.
Lost in translation (revised version 2) HM OCTOBTER
Last edited by pitseleh on Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:11 am, edited 8 times in total.
Aren't people absurd! They never use the freedoms they do have but demand those they don't have; they have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
Ranting and raving, needs to be substituted, it's a tired player and too well used. Also, in the last verse, I think you need to use the present tense of 'smile' instead of the participle, and use a comma after 'fresh sun'.
Maybe -
He had an accent thicker than chocolate;
Irish. Didn't get the chance to ask where,
before he started [lose the full stop at the end]
blasting and cursing,
in his old spit soaked drawl,
madder than a cut snake.
Talking about when he were young,
and taking a fall for democracy.
In the garden, where he spends all his time
around old, forgetful flowers, he smiles
into the fresh sun,
lost in translation. - Just a thought.
nice one
Barrie
Maybe -
He had an accent thicker than chocolate;
Irish. Didn't get the chance to ask where,
before he started [lose the full stop at the end]
blasting and cursing,
in his old spit soaked drawl,
madder than a cut snake.
Talking about when he were young,
and taking a fall for democracy.
In the garden, where he spends all his time
around old, forgetful flowers, he smiles
into the fresh sun,
lost in translation. - Just a thought.
nice one
Barrie
After letting go of branches and walking through the ape gait, we managed to grasp what hands were really for......
i actually didnt notice ranting and raving first read but barrie is right.. the poem is great, and scrapping the line altogether wouldnt effect the poem and would leave all stanzas at 3 lines... a very good piece though pit..
thansk
thansk
sorry you two. have actually edited the poem a bit there before i realised youd commented cooper. by no means leave your comment as void, i just preffered my original structure.
Will look at ranting and raving. Thanks to both for bringing it up.
Barrie, it didnt mean "he" was smiling. is that unclear? Just incidentally, how would one lay this poem out best? i mean, just becuase its iambic pentameter, would it lessen itself by being presented as ,say, barries suggested?
cheers
harrison
Will look at ranting and raving. Thanks to both for bringing it up.
Barrie, it didnt mean "he" was smiling. is that unclear? Just incidentally, how would one lay this poem out best? i mean, just becuase its iambic pentameter, would it lessen itself by being presented as ,say, barries suggested?
cheers
harrison
Aren't people absurd! They never use the freedoms they do have but demand those they don't have; they have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
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Raisin
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Harrison,
I quite liked this, you have used nice language in many parts. I agree about "ranting and raving", a phrase used far too much sadly, but you've already said you'll take a look at that.
"Talking about when he were young,">shouldn't this be "when he was young? I don't think "when he were young" works at all.
"Madder than a cut snake, in his old spit
soaked drawl."> I liked this use of langauge, nice description.
Overall I liked it, I think you might trim a couple of bits and change a few words to make it better.
Thanks,
Raisin
I quite liked this, you have used nice language in many parts. I agree about "ranting and raving", a phrase used far too much sadly, but you've already said you'll take a look at that.
"Talking about when he were young,">shouldn't this be "when he was young? I don't think "when he were young" works at all.
"Madder than a cut snake, in his old spit
soaked drawl."> I liked this use of langauge, nice description.
Overall I liked it, I think you might trim a couple of bits and change a few words to make it better.
Thanks,
Raisin
In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded. (Terry Pratchett on the Big Bang Theory)
Harrison
I like this, but regarding the meter, the first line is a good model for the intended meter.
The remainder loses it a bit in places. There is more to iambic pentameter than ten syllables per line.
You have a couple of choices here, you either work at the poem and iron out the meter, or maybe try four lines of tetrameter per stanza. Or go along the route Barrie has suggested and free the peice up, concentrating on delivering a well worded free verse poem. I don't personally think losing the rigid structure will lessen the poem, as it's a good peice and just needs a little polishing.
Having the full stops where they are, is more like having used a meter with more feet, and then having a line break to contain the syllables.
Obviously your call, hope this is of some use.
Cheers
Tim
I like this, but regarding the meter, the first line is a good model for the intended meter.
The remainder loses it a bit in places. There is more to iambic pentameter than ten syllables per line.
You have a couple of choices here, you either work at the poem and iron out the meter, or maybe try four lines of tetrameter per stanza. Or go along the route Barrie has suggested and free the peice up, concentrating on delivering a well worded free verse poem. I don't personally think losing the rigid structure will lessen the poem, as it's a good peice and just needs a little polishing.
Having the full stops where they are, is more like having used a meter with more feet, and then having a line break to contain the syllables.
Obviously your call, hope this is of some use.
Cheers
Tim
to anticipate touching what is unseen seems far more interesting than seeing what the hand can not touch
My layout is your layout - I just copied and pasted your original version (with a few alterations) before you edited it.
Barrie
Maybe you could call it Lost in Revision.
Barrie
Maybe you could call it Lost in Revision.
After letting go of branches and walking through the ape gait, we managed to grasp what hands were really for......
hi,
Raisin - thanks for you points and time taken to read the peice. I will throw them in the cauldron.
Tim - Where abouts would you say it "loses it a bit"? I'm a newbie to this stuff in truth.
this one might take a while, eh
thanks all
harrison
Raisin - thanks for you points and time taken to read the peice. I will throw them in the cauldron.
Tim - Where abouts would you say it "loses it a bit"? I'm a newbie to this stuff in truth.
this one might take a while, eh
thanks all
harrison
Aren't people absurd! They never use the freedoms they do have but demand those they don't have; they have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
Harrison,
It´s not the poem that loses a bit, it was the meter.
Counting the beats in the palm of your hand
helps with the meter to anchor each foot.
While making each phrase fit into the lines
will help to accent the flow you require.
Split phrases which have a natural position for a line break is a good way to improve an understanding of meter. I just typed the above, off the cuff which demonstrates a natural position for a break occuring after the tenth syllable. You can do it with most configurations of feet and syllable accentuation.
Imagine a tune in your head that has a rhythmic pattern, and get your words to chug along with it.
Hope this helps explain meter for you.
Tim
It´s not the poem that loses a bit, it was the meter.
Counting the beats in the palm of your hand
helps with the meter to anchor each foot.
While making each phrase fit into the lines
will help to accent the flow you require.
Split phrases which have a natural position for a line break is a good way to improve an understanding of meter. I just typed the above, off the cuff which demonstrates a natural position for a break occuring after the tenth syllable. You can do it with most configurations of feet and syllable accentuation.
Imagine a tune in your head that has a rhythmic pattern, and get your words to chug along with it.
Hope this helps explain meter for you.
Tim
to anticipate touching what is unseen seems far more interesting than seeing what the hand can not touch
Harrison
I think you have something buried in here just needing teased out. I am not going to comment on the iambic stuff as I am crap at it but here's a few thoughts.
I am not getting a complete connection between the two stanzas - may just be me though.
In s1 I would rearrange this bit - I think its visually tidier and draws more attention to the cut snake depiction which is good. so is spit soaked drawl.
before he started, madder than a cut snake.
In his old spit soaked drawl, he talked
about when he were young
and taking a fall for democracy.
I am not entirely sure about that last line. Unless you can get a really good tie in to the next stanza its kind of left hanging there.
Pedantic maybe, but would he smell old flowers - smelly or what?
Do you have another title - remember this was a movie with Bill Murray. Not essential - just a thought.
Do you think you need to place him as Irish - in one way it negates it the fact you didnt get a chance to ask where. Although that could refer to the region of Ireland, I know.
Worth sticking at this one.
elph
I think you have something buried in here just needing teased out. I am not going to comment on the iambic stuff as I am crap at it but here's a few thoughts.
I am not getting a complete connection between the two stanzas - may just be me though.
In s1 I would rearrange this bit - I think its visually tidier and draws more attention to the cut snake depiction which is good. so is spit soaked drawl.
before he started, madder than a cut snake.
In his old spit soaked drawl, he talked
about when he were young
and taking a fall for democracy.
I am not entirely sure about that last line. Unless you can get a really good tie in to the next stanza its kind of left hanging there.
Pedantic maybe, but would he smell old flowers - smelly or what?
Do you have another title - remember this was a movie with Bill Murray. Not essential - just a thought.
Do you think you need to place him as Irish - in one way it negates it the fact you didnt get a chance to ask where. Although that could refer to the region of Ireland, I know.
Worth sticking at this one.
elph
I like this a lot, H. Just a few thoughts for you ...
I think He had an accent thicker than chocolate is a great phrase. If it's one of your own, it's a stunner.
Isn't madder than a cut snake a bit ready-made, though?
Talking about when he were young - did he say "When I were young ..."? Some people do. (Not the Irish, though, I think?)
It's hard to use a phrase like lost in translation with any sense of freshness, but I think you may have done it.
Oh and Tim's right, this is miles from iambic pentameter at the moment. For example, and taking a fall for democracy is ten syllables, but it's neither iambic nor pentameter. However, "and took a fall for Dame Democracy" (for argument's sake) is both.
All quibbles aside, it's a good poem.
Cheers
David
I think He had an accent thicker than chocolate is a great phrase. If it's one of your own, it's a stunner.
Isn't madder than a cut snake a bit ready-made, though?
Talking about when he were young - did he say "When I were young ..."? Some people do. (Not the Irish, though, I think?)
It's hard to use a phrase like lost in translation with any sense of freshness, but I think you may have done it.
Oh and Tim's right, this is miles from iambic pentameter at the moment. For example, and taking a fall for democracy is ten syllables, but it's neither iambic nor pentameter. However, "and took a fall for Dame Democracy" (for argument's sake) is both.
All quibbles aside, it's a good poem.
Cheers
David
elphin - thanks for your thoughts.
Re-arranging the first stanza; I see where you're coming from, but in your suggested alternative the use of he twice (he started, he talked) makes it stumble a bit, so think I'll stick on that one.
The title is unoriginal, but for now im not too concerned about that. Its been used in tonnes of other stuff too, want to try getting the organs working properly before i zip on a nice skin.
All your other points are duly noted et appreciated.
David,
The chocolate thing is mine, thought of it a while back and was waiting to be able to use it.
not sure if he actually said "when i were young" but i have that linked in with the irish accent, more northern, though he was born in yorkshire.
madder than a cut snake - very possibly, but it seems to work well enough.
Hopefully i can tease something decent out of this then.
thanks all
harrison
ps. I think i might take this away with me, with a slight possibility of being brough back when and if i finish it.
Re-arranging the first stanza; I see where you're coming from, but in your suggested alternative the use of he twice (he started, he talked) makes it stumble a bit, so think I'll stick on that one.
The title is unoriginal, but for now im not too concerned about that. Its been used in tonnes of other stuff too, want to try getting the organs working properly before i zip on a nice skin.
All your other points are duly noted et appreciated.
David,
The chocolate thing is mine, thought of it a while back and was waiting to be able to use it.
not sure if he actually said "when i were young" but i have that linked in with the irish accent, more northern, though he was born in yorkshire.
madder than a cut snake - very possibly, but it seems to work well enough.
Hopefully i can tease something decent out of this then.
thanks all
harrison
ps. I think i might take this away with me, with a slight possibility of being brough back when and if i finish it.
Aren't people absurd! They never use the freedoms they do have but demand those they don't have; they have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
thanks all, ive been away for a while so this was a nice welcome back
Aren't people absurd! They never use the freedoms they do have but demand those they don't have; they have freedom of thought, they demand freedom of speech.
Excellent. One of those which just screams -poetry. Two characters both written with compassion and insight.
The progression from 'original' to 'finished' is worthwhile and highlights the advantage of leaving each draft for comparison.
Irish myself I can say that we don't use the Yorkshire 'were' but that's not a criticism as it is the poet's voice and fits well here. One of those reads which can be read and re-read with pleasure - and that's a sure sign, to this reader, of worth. Well done and look forward to more.
Jimmy
The progression from 'original' to 'finished' is worthwhile and highlights the advantage of leaving each draft for comparison.
Irish myself I can say that we don't use the Yorkshire 'were' but that's not a criticism as it is the poet's voice and fits well here. One of those reads which can be read and re-read with pleasure - and that's a sure sign, to this reader, of worth. Well done and look forward to more.
Jimmy