Poetry Forum

A WIP, trying to convert Catullus 16 to a more hip-hop style. Bear in mind this is not a parody, nor is it meant to be racist; I love hip-hop and Catullus. This translation tries to be true to both.

I'll push yo shit in an' make ya guzzle ma dick,
Cocksuckarelius an' Furius ma bitch,
thinkin' 'cause ma rhymes
be pretty, that I gone soft!
Rappas gotta be hard, aight,
but that don't mean they rhymes gotta be,
'cause dope hip-hop is like a fine sista
if it ain't stone cold an' it's soft 'n tenda an'
just thinkin' bout it make brothas' draws tingle,
not the young bloods but the old-schoolas
whose dicks ain't moved since '92.
So ya punks read 'bout my thousand kisses
and think I's a bitch?
I'll push yo shit in an' make ya guzzle ma dick!

Older version:

I'll rape yo face and fuck you in the ass,
Aurelius cocksucka and Furius faggot,
who think 'cause my rhymes
be pretty, I ain't a pimp.
'Cause even if a rappa gotta be hard,
don't mean he gotta spit hard,
he spit nice 'n legit,
if it's soft 'n sensual
'n get dicks hard.
I ain't sayin' get kids hard, but old fucks
who can't get dey dried-up 'n crusty shit hard.
So ya heard me rhyme 'bout a thousand kisses
and think I's a bitch?
I'll rape yo face and fuck you in the ass!

benjamin wrote:A WIP, trying to convert Catullus 16 to a more hip-hop style. Bear in mind this is not a parody, nor is it meant to be racist; I love hip-hop and Catullus. This translation tries to be true to both.

I'll rape yo face and fuck you in the ass,
Aurelius cocksucka and Furius faggot,
who think 'cause my rhymes
be pretty, I ain't a pimp.
'Cause even if a rappa gotta be hard,
don't mean he gotta spit hard,
he spit nice 'n legit,
if it's soft 'n sensual
'n get dicks hard.
I ain't sayin' get kids hard, but old fucks
who can't get dey dried-up 'n crusty shit hard.
So ya heard me rhyme 'bout a thousand kisses
and think I's a bitch?
I'll rape yo face and fuck you in the ass!

Well this establishes you ain't black . . . just kidding. It's a fun idea and I reckon you should try an update of all 116 . . . in different musical styles.

TBH, I'M struggling to hear the Hip-Hop beat, but it's a good read . . . I wonder what Aurelius and Furius woulda made of this:

It's good to know that spats between poets are not just a modern phenomenon.

Not that I know anything about hip-hop but I think Brian is right about the rhythm.

just a couple of points

benjamin wrote:nor is it meant to be racist

the poem should be saying this, it needs to stand alone, ultimately the reader should formulate their own opinion from the poem alone not from you.

benjamin wrote: I love hip-hop and Catullus. This translation tries to be true to both.

the poem is very removed from the original and not sure of this reductionist view of hip hop, you've forgotten one of the commandments... "Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the four elements and never will be."

Raincoat wrote:j you've forgotten one of the commandments... "Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the four elements and never will be."

Yeah, but guns, bitches and bling are as old as poetry. They just went by different names.

B.

brianedwards wrote:

Raincoat wrote:j you've forgotten one of the commandments... "Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the four elements and never will be."

Yeah, but guns, bitches and bling are as old as poetry. They just went by different names.

B.

wasn't talking about poetry - I was talking about the four elements of hip hop in reference to his statement about hip hop.

I worked on this a lot more and came up with this:

I'll push yo shit in an' make ya guzzle ma dick,
Cocksuckarelius an' Furius ma bitch,
thinkin' 'cause ma rhymes
be pretty, that I gone soft!
Rappas gotta be hard, aight,
but that don't mean they rhymes gotta be,
'cause dope hip-hop is like a fine sista
if it ain't stone cold an' it's soft 'n tenda an'
just thinkin' bout it make brothas' draws tingle,
not the young bloods but the old-schoolas
whose dicks ain't moved since '92.
So ya punks read 'bout my thousand kisses
and think I's a bitch?
I'll push yo shit in an' make ya guzzle ma dick!

More rhythm this time, and closer to the original. Sent it to my old Latin professor from undergrad and he loved it.

Well, this is excellent. i don't care for hip-hop and rap that's produced these day. I disagree with Raincoat, this does captures both the style of that approach as well as the indignation of the original. I don't know if you are familiar with Zukofsky's transliterations, but this seems to be in the same vein in the approach rather than style in that it 'modernises' Catullus, and, as a result, creates something new.

I think that the problem highlighted by Brian is a point, but my understanding of rap and hip-hop is that the actual vocalisation comes before the commitment to print and so rap and hip-hop lyrics are usually written down with the vernacular. I think that you could make this sound ‘correct’ with a beat, by using the exaggeration of pronunciation/ vernacular that is common in hip-hop.

I agree that having a go at all the Catullus poems would be a worthwhile project (assuming you have the time). I don’t know about using rap/hip-hop for all would be possible as the language in that type of music seems to me to be limited, so I think Bran is onto something when he says ‘different musical styles’.

I think the rewrite is a lot tighter. I think that the original version has a bit of self-censorship to it.

Thanks, Denis. Here's my (much more faithful) translation of Catullus 6, and I've decided to make this the thread for my Catullus translations.

Carmen 6

Flavius, unless your girl were awkward and rude,
you would be willing to tell Catullus about her,
you wouldn't be able to shut up about it.
I have no idea what kind of sick
slut you love: you're ashamed to tell me.
But even if you don't tell me,
your bed does with its
garlands and Syrian perfumes,
its pillow used equally on this side and that,
its trembling, violent shaking,
bouncing up and down.
You can't hide your debauchery.
Why? You wouldn't be so exhausted
unless you were up to no good.
Just tell me, whether it's good or bad,
so I can exalt you and your girl
toward the heavens with my beautiful verse.

I discovered Catullus when I was a school kid. A few of us were aware that this Roman poet wrote a lot of racey stuff that had swearing in it. So off we went to find the evidence and thus began a love for the work but also a love for Latin, which was considered a dead language that only toffs learned in school.

There are two main translations in English that are pretty much well known. There was Peter Whigham’s translation and Peter Green. Green’s include some fragments of poems that are not in Whigham’s collection. Also Green’s collection is a bilingual edition. However I find Green’s work to be very unsatisfactory. He tends to treat the poems as pieces of prose. The opening line of his version of this particular poem is: Flavius, that sweetie of yours (Catullus speaking); and there is much of that approach littered throughout. Whigham’s is much better and uses a more courtly approach (Your most recent acquisition, Flavius). I think that Green wanted to bring out the vulgarity of the Roman socialites whereas Whigham seems to give them a more positive idealisation.

What you have done, I feel, is run down the middle. The lines near the end of your version - Just tell me, whether it's good or bad,/so I can exalt you and your girl – capture the mood well. The overall feel of this translation is as near to an actual translation as you’ll get without sacricing the poetry.

Bloody excellent mate! I’m looking forward to seeing more

Thanks much, Denis. I think a lot of the more colloquial Catullus translators lack any poetic background, which leads to their translations sounding ugly. Though my goal with these translations is a colloquial rendering, how a poem sounds never leaves my mind when I'm working on it, whether it's mine or someone else's. That's how Catullus wrote: he didn't use flowery language most of the time, but spoke directly and musically.

Someone at another forum requested 85, so I obliged since it's so short.

Carmen 85

I hate you and love you. You may ask why.
I have no idea, but I feel it now and it tortures me.

benjamin wrote:
Someone at another forum requested 85, so I obliged since it's so short.

Carmen 85

I hate you and love you. You may ask why.
I have no idea, but I feel it now and it tortures me.

I would replace "it tortures me" with "it is crucifying" or some such variant eg "it crucifies me" as I think this keeps faith with the concept of "excrucior" as crucifixion essentially worked by breaking the heart (or so my old Latin master averred).

Love your rap translations

Steve