Farewell to my Brother

[Lake]

V1 Farewell to my Brother

Along the parting road, clouds start to rise;
around the wayside pavilion, leaves grow sparse.
I sigh for we’re not the same as wild geese
who can fly in a row without remorse.
--

V2 Seeing my Brother off

We wave farewell on the road when clouds rise,
by the wayside pavilion leaves grow sparse.
I sigh we aren't the same as wild wild geese,
who in a row can fly without remorse.

-- by a 7-year old girl in Tang Dynasty

[David]

V1 for me, Lake, although that one is more easily read (as I did at first) than the other as a funeral elegy for the brother, rather than just an au revoir.

I think it's really quite beautiful.

Cheers

David

[Lake]

Thanks David for your quick response.

Do you mean V2 sounds like a funeral elegy? I'm glad you told me this.

What do you think about the French words such as 'au revoir', 'adieu' used in this translation? Will they sound foreign or is it ok? I'm asking because I see they are used in other translations and I'm not sure how they sound to the navtives' ears as I didn't realize V2 sounds elegiac to you.

Thank you very much!

Lake

[twoleftfeet]

Hi, Lake and David

V2 for me - "parting road" in V1 doesn't sound quite right somehow.

The title of V2 is better, V1 is ambiguous by comparison.

I think
We wave farewell on the road as clouds rise,
would be better.

Also, perhaps "fly off" or "fly away" ?

I didn't get a sense of elegy.

In fact, It reminded me of this Ralph McTell lyric:

The Setting
-----------------

I will never forget the walk to the station,
Me with your suitcase being brotherly strong.
And trying to make light of the whole situation,
In mild conversation we moved through the throng,

And above all the roar of the town was the blue sky,
I could here the birds singing for the joy of the day
And there was no support from the city forthcoming,
No sympathy numbing your going away.
It's hard to say goodbye.

And there was you with your bright eyes and best dress for travelling
And me in my work clothes, unshaven and plain,
Oh, I fully intended to put in the half day,
But my good intentions went with you on the train.

And I never looked back as the train left the station,
Crossed over the road and walked into the park,
And there in a bar an old man was singing,
And I sat there drinking until it got dark.

And outside the trees they grew starlings like apples,
Their hustle and chatter not dampened by the rain.
That washed down the pavements and into the gutters,
That soaked through my clothes as I set out again,

And above me the stars were all hidden by rain clouds,
The song of the old man still locked in my brain,
And all emigration, the curse of a nation
The setting now fitting his sad sweet refrain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Lake]

Hi Geoff,

So glad to read your comments. And they are spot on.

V2 for me - "parting road" in V1 doesn't sound quite right somehow.

That's what I was afraid of, even though in the original it is 'parting road' and 'farewell pavilion', very concise. But I fear if they sound natural in English that's why I worked out a second version.

The title of V2 is better, V1 is ambiguous by comparison.

Agree. I did this just try to avoid 'Seeing off' since it is used in others' versions. Now I have to use it again.

I think
We wave farewell on the road as clouds rise,
would be better.

I used 'as' at first, then changed it to 'when'. Sometimes I can't distinguish between the two.

Also, perhaps "fly off" or "fly away" ?

This is great! 'fly off' and 'fly away' add a sense of motion.

Thank you very much, Geoff. I will give it a final tune based on your suggestions.

I like the song you quoted which does have a similiar tone as that in the translation.

All the best!

Lake

[twoleftfeet]

I used 'as' at first, then changed it to 'when'. Sometimes I can't distinguish between the two.
Lake

Sometimes, when you use "when", you are implying a cause-and-effect: e.g. "I go to bed when I feel tired".
Using "as" in the poem avoids that possibility. Others may disagree, of course.

Geoff

[Lake]

Thanks Geoff, I'll keep your explanation in mind, which really helps.

Lake

[David]

I thought there was a sense of a funeral elegy to both of them, actually. Is that a bad thing in this context?

[Lake]

Hi David,

It is a sad thing, though in this context it is indeed mournful.

Cheers,

Lake

[oggiesnr]

It's a pedantic point but a skein of wild geese don't fly in a row, they fly in a very precise formation each one slightly offset from the one in front(there's a physical reason about drag and effort but I forget the details). In this context I suppose the last line becomes something like -

"who fly in formation without remorse."

Not sure it adds much however.

Steve

[Lake]

It's a pedantic point but a skein of wild geese don't fly in a row, they fly in a very precise formation each one slightly offset from the one in front(there's a physical reason about drag and effort but I forget the details). In this context I suppose the last line becomes something like -

"who fly in formation without remorse."

Not sure it adds much however.

Steve

Thank you Steve for your reading and suggestion. I thought about 'formation', but felt it is more scientific than poetic. Can we say 'a line of geese', 'a line of birds"? If we can, I think 'geese fly in lines /rows' is acceptable, is it? Anyway, the different shapes are formed by lines. And in our culture, there is such an expression of 'a line of geese'. And like in the west, it is said 'geese fly in a V shape', we say 'geese fly in the shape of 一 ( one) or in 人 (human) shape. I think the poem emphasizes that the geese can fly away together while we can't.

I appreciate your input.

Best,

Lake

[twoleftfeet]

Hi, Lake

I must admit that I did think of "formation" too, but thought it had too many syllables.

You could maybe use "skein", which is used to describe a flock of the birds in flight.
I think the idea is that they look like they are strung out across the sky on invisible thread.

Geoff

[oggiesnr]

"I sigh that we're not like a skein of geese
Who may fly together without remorse"

Steve

[Lake]

You could maybe use "skein", which is used to describe a flock of the birds in flight.
I think the idea is that they look like they are strung out across the sky on invisible thread.

Hi Geoff,

I like that word, too. I havn't used it before. Your 'they are strung out across the sky on invisible thread' is very interesting. It brought a smile to my face.

Thanks,

Lake

[Lake]

"I sigh that we're not like a skein of geese
Who may fly together without remorse"

Thanks Steve for writing this. It's very good, I like it. What do you think of "without remorse"? Does 'remorse' fit here if I want it to mean 'regret', 'sorrow'?

Thanks,
Lake

[Lake]

Oh, here's the original:

送 兄
—— 七岁女

别路云初起，

离亭叶正稀。

所嗟人异雁，

不作一行飞。


See the "一" in the last line? That's why it was translated as 'in a row" or "in a line"... But it doesn't sound quite right?

[oggiesnr]

This is further from the original but how about -

We wave farewell on the road when clouds rise,
by the wayside pavilion where leaves grow sparse.
I sigh that we're not like a skein of geese
Who may leave together without remorse.

In L2 I've added "where" to link the pavilion with the leaves as (to me) the leaves seemed detached. I think "remorse" is probably best as it keeps the "s" sound of the final syllables. "Leave" is less accurate then "fly" but I offer it as a thought.

Steve

[Lake]

Thanks again, Steve.

Now I feel better that you think 'remorse' works. I think I'll steal your last two lines like this:

We wave farewell on the road as clouds rise,
by the roadside pavilion, leaves grow sparse.
I sigh we aren't like a skein of wild geese,
who can fly together without remorse.

[twoleftfeet]

Thanks again, Steve.

Now I feel better that you think 'remorse' works. I think I'll steal your last two lines like this:

We wave farewell on the road as clouds rise,
by the roadside pavilion, leaves grow sparse.
I sigh we aren't like a skein of wild geese,
who can fly together without remorse.

Lake,
Surely he is going, she is staying (or maybe vice versa)? - but "fly together" sounds as if they are going away together.
Or is it they are aparting because they find it difficult being together? Now I am confused..

[Elphin]

hi Lake

I like this translation. I know you can't write poetry by committee or even translate by committee so I hesitate to add my tuppence worth ---- but will.

I think you had it pretty much nailed it in v1. I read it as two people who are metaphorically travelling a road together but have to part because it is painful to be apart but less so than being together. For that reason I liked parting road meaning both the road on which we part and also a road that has come to a fork.

I do like the addition of skein but in your new version I think it has too many beats now on that line. Could you drop wild?

Along the parting road, clouds start to rise;
around the wayside pavilion, leaves grow sparse.
I sigh that we aren't like a skein of geese
who can fly together without remorse.

It must be tricky to translate from one language and achieve a rhyming scheme, as you have, in another. I admire that.

Enjoyed this

elph

[Suzanne]

Lake,
This is beautiful. I like the final version that is posted. The word skein is really not very pretty even if it is correct.
Well done at translating this. It is a wonderful mood.

Suzanne

[oggiesnr]

Um.. I like skein because it conjures up a sight we can relate to. I also think that "wild" could probably be dropped.

The reason I changed "fly" to "leave" (and I admit I don't know the subtleties of the ideogram) is that the poem is about leaving. If you fly together you have not left one behind. In my mind I pictured an injured goose, left to it's fate as the north wind of winter sets in, alone on the lake as it's brothers fly south.

Steve

[Lake]

Lake,
Surely he is going, she is staying (or maybe vice versa)? - but "fly together" sounds as if they are going away together.
Or is it they are aparting because they find it difficult being together? Now I am confused..

Hi Geoff,

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with some stuff that I dislike but I have to do.

Yes, the brother is going, the sister is staying, you're 100% correct. "fly together', is supposed to mean they cannot go together like the wild geese that can fly together. But if it sounds as if they are going away together, then the expression is problematic. Here's another version that takes your sugguestion "fly away".

We wave farewell on the road when clouds rise,
by the roadside pavilion leaves grow sparse.
I sigh that we aren't the same as wild geese,
who fly away in lines without remorse.

How does that sound? Thanks again.

Lake

[Lake]

hi Lake

I like this translation. I know you can't write poetry by committee or even translate by committee so I hesitate to add my tuppence worth ---- but will.

I think you had it pretty much nailed it in v1. I read it as two people who are metaphorically travelling a road together but have to part because it is painful to be apart but less so than being together. For that reason I liked parting road meaning both the road on which we part and also a road that has come to a fork.

I do like the addition of skein but in your new version I think it has too many beats now on that line. Could you drop wild?

Along the parting road, clouds start to rise;
around the wayside pavilion, leaves grow sparse.
I sigh that we aren't like a skein of geese
who can fly together without remorse.

It must be tricky to translate from one language and achieve a rhyming scheme, as you have, in another. I admire that.

Enjoyed this

elph

Hi Elph,

So glad to read your comments. It seems you and David share the similar opinion regarding V1. Interesting to read your take on "the parting road", which is why I changed it in v2, which is why it doesn't sound right to Geoff. (Now back to the committee)
Yes, "wild" can certainly be dropped. But would you show me how you count the beats? I am always struggling on counting beats. I know words like nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs are usually stressed while some connective words, prepositions, articles are unstreesed. But I find it not always the case when I read others' scansion. I am always not quite sure.

Regards,

Lake

[Lake]

Lake,
This is beautiful. I like the final version that is posted. The word skein is really not very pretty even if it is correct.
Well done at translating this. It is a wonderful mood.

Suzanne

Hi Suzanne,

Long time no talk.
Glad you liked it. I've never used "skein" before, so I have no idea if it is pretty or not. But will pay special attention to others' works which used the word and listen to how it sounds.

Best,
Lake