Transcendence

[Denis Joe]

dedicated to Sandra Dillon


With my ergo as
one with others in the room.

One with my ergo
as in the room with others.

The stage was set for
interpretation of life.

Interpretation
was for the set stage of life.

Motherhood became
the women actors, acting.

The women became
actors acting Motherhood.

Each turn was unique,
but spoke of universal.

Universal was
of each unique turn of spoke.

Each role was born
to be an actor. Each was
an actor born to a role.

[brianedwards]

Hi Denis, nice to meet you here.
I notice from your profile you are interested in traditional Japanese forms, and this certainly has a Zen feel to it. I wonder if it wouldn't also benefit from some of the more imagistic qualities of Japanese poetry: I've nothing against abstract conceits per se, but a little more imagery might lighten the read?

Interesting work. I look forward to more.

B.

[delph_ambi]

This puts me in mind of a distorting mirror with the images bouncing back subtly altered. Interesting form.

The first two stanzas threw me. Why 'ergo'? Doesn't make sense to me. I must be missing something, but maybe a less opaque opening might work better to draw the reader in, rather than leaving them scratching their head.

Favourite pair of stanzas is the 'spoke' one. The subtle punning works a treat.

[twoleftfeet]

Hi DJ,

I like how you have attempted with each 2nd couplet to change as few words as possible, but at the same time some of the
phrases a little Yoda-ish sound.

Yes, the turning wheel/spoke/chakra idea is very Eastern, and the last sentence completes a full circle in itself.

I have no idea why you chose "ergo" instead of "ego" - the logic of the thought process perhaps?

Food for thought - just my cup of tea!

Geoff

[Denis Joe]

Thanks very much. It's funny, when I have read out this poem nobody picked up on the 'ergo'. Initially I was going to use 'ego', but I think it made the thing too subjective and autobiographical sounding. My reasoning with ergo is simply to give the piece and objective sound, and so 'ergo' (I think) could be made to mean everything and nothing. I tried also to maintain a sort of 'this is it' feel, if that makes any sense.

I should add that in its original (traditional Japanese) form the Choka is written in double couplets and the first part of the first line of each is repeated. I tried to create the same feeling with this.

[Raincoat]

Hi Denis, there is a quietness to this, it feels relaxing to read it, I've written a choka once with the 5 and 7, but I like how with this you have repeated usage of the words so that it feels integrated and unified. I studied latin yonks ago, is I think cogito instead? I think ergo is a connecting word - "therefore" but I could be wrong on that.
hmm I really do feel rather relaxed after your poem, so thanks!tess

[delph_ambi]

Raincoat's right. It's 'cogito' that means 'I think'. 'ergo' means 'therefore'.

[twoleftfeet]

Raincoat's right. It's 'cogito' that means 'I think'. 'ergo' means 'therefore'.

That not what DJ said, is it? I assumed he was qualifying his statement as in IMHO.

[delph_ambi]

Denis said: "ergo (I think)", not "ergo, I think" so I thought he meant that he was taking 'ergo' to mean 'I think' rather than he was thinking about 'ergo'.

I think.

Umm... Denis? Over to you.

[Raincoat]

ditto. I thought you meant ergo is "i think."

denis, my friend what did you mean? if you did mean ergo as in "therefore", then those first lines don't seem to make sense. but it sounds as if you don't want it to translate literally? tess

[twoleftfeet]

You may think (ergo) what you like - but my friend, a Professor of Ergonomics agrees with me!

[Raincoat]

cogito that you and your professor of ergonomics can go back to Greece where you come from. I hope you're sitting comfortably.

[Denis Joe]

Denis said: "ergo (I think)", not "ergo, I think" so I thought he meant that he was taking 'ergo' to mean 'I think' rather than he was thinking about 'ergo'.

I think.

Umm... Denis? Over to you.

Yes, thanks for that clarification. It is the 'here and now' that I was trying to capture. ergo I meant ergo as 'therefore'.

[brianedwards]

Yes, thanks for that clarification. It is the 'here and now' that I was trying to capture. ergo I meant ergo as 'therefore'.

Made sense to me.

[Raincoat]

Yes, thanks for that clarification. It is the 'here and now' that I was trying to capture. ergo I meant ergo as 'therefore'.

It doesn't make sense to me. hic et nunc means "here and now". ergo means "therefore".
but anyway it doesn't matter, it sounds as if it's not an exact translation you were looking for - more the essence of something larger? which is what I said in my post before.

[twoleftfeet]

Cogitamus, ergo sumus

[David]

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

I like the poem, though. It reminded me of one of them French nouvelle vague films. Resnais, maybe?

Cheers

David