Avoidance [changed a bit]

[thoke]

Bipedal agents conspire to make a sound,
hollow you out with information

'til you cave in
and sleep connected to the web
with her space occupied

by lapdancing faeries
in red brick land, shut away
from the nonsense
of dead messiahs.

[ray miller]

Can one be hollowed out with information? Aren't you more likely to be filled in?
I think The Web would be better than the internet especially with lapdancing faeries to follow.

[brianedwards]

The title is apt Ben. Shouldn't poets always avoid faeries, messiahs and starting a poem "There are"?

Those no-nos aside, I do quite like this. The idea of being hollowed out by information is excellent I thought: nice bit of 21st century paranoia!

B.

[thoke]

I think The Web would be better than the internet especially with lapdancing faeries to follow.

Good idea! Have changed it.

Shouldn't poets always avoid faeries, messiahs and starting a poem "There are"?

I don't see why...

Thanks, guys.

Ben

[brianedwards]

Shouldn't poets always avoid faeries, messiahs and starting a poem "There are"?

I don't see why...

Cos they're crap.

[delph_ambi]

Okay, my take on the 'there are' problem: it's a weak passive construction. The gist of the opening is: 'bipedal agents conspire to make a sound' -- which incidentally would make a great opening line, so why not use it? Part of the problem is the verb -- any form of 'to be' can usually be replaced by something more specific -- and part is the 'There'. It's hard to know precisely what the 'There' means when it's placed at the start of a sentence. You have to read on to find out. It's a waste of words. Better to plunge straight in with the bipedal agents.

'faeries' generally have no place in modern poetry unless qualified in a new and edgy way -- which you've done by having them lapdancing, so that's fine.

'messiahs' likewise are tricky beasts, but if they're decidedly dead and replaced by the lapdancing damsels, then I reckon they're allowed, and are all the more effective for being on the edge of disallowed.

I found this poem curiously nostalgic. Okay, when I was at college there was no internet and I wasn't studying dead messiahs etc, but this poem has a great studenty feel to it and an ageless quality which I enjoy.

[brianedwards]

Catherine, yes, that first line is excellent without the first two words. That was my point, but I'm far too much of an arse to make it so politely . . .

As for the other stuff . . .
Faeries have no place in modern poetry, absolutely. Not even Lapdancing faeries, which sounds like Lapdancing fairies, which puts me in a gay bar and I'm sure that's not intended.

And Messiahs? Well, unless it's Monty Python they are crap dead or alive

But Ben, I want to make it clear, I do think this poem is very close to being very good.

B.

[twoleftfeet]

I don't have a problem with "there are" - it sounds like something that Muldaur or Scully might say.

Having said that, Ben, you could always change the title to "Avoid" which runs runs smoothly into "bipedal agents".

I think the comma after "sound" needs to go if the sound is doing the hollowing.

There are Lapdancing fairies out there folks
- well, at least G0000gle gives a few hits, but the Youtube clip is disappointing.

Intriguing read (as usual)
Geoff

[brianedwards]

I don't have a problem with "there are" - it sounds like something that Muldaur or Scully might say.

Who?

[twoleftfeet]

I don't have a problem with "there are" - it sounds like something that Muldaur or Scully might say.

Who?

Sorry - I should have looked up the spelling . Mulder and Scully - the X Files.

[brianedwards]

LOL! Well, no wonder I didn't make the connection, I was racking my brains thinking they were poets!

[twoleftfeet]

LOL! Well, no wonder I didn't make the connection, I was racking my brains thinking they were poets!

You need to be wearing a black suit and mirror shades to read this poem, Agent Edwards.

[thoke]

Shouldn't poets always avoid faeries, messiahs and starting a poem "There are"?

I don't see why...

Cos they're crap.

Is that supposed to aid my understanding?

[thoke]

Faeries have no place in modern poetry, absolutely. Not even Lapdancing faeries, which sounds like Lapdancing fairies, which puts me in a gay bar and I'm sure that's not intended.

You can think about gay bars while you read my poem, I'm okay with that. I did intend something sexual... heterosexual, but it would be nice if gay people could relate to my poem too.

And Messiahs? Well, unless it's Monty Python they are crap dead or alive

Like it or not, belief in a messiah is a current problem with the world. Messiahs are topical.

[brianedwards]

Well Benjamin, as the proud owner of two televisions I assure you I get that religion is topical. My complaint here is with the word messiah which is a bit fire 'n' brimstone y'know, tips yer poem over into polemic.

And one day you are gonna look back at this poem and the word faeries and say Yes, Brian Was Right, and on that day you owe me a lapdance at my favourite gay bar.

B.

[Denis Joe]

I guess because of my fondness for Japanese poetry I'm going to see it everywhere. There is a lot of imagery in this and you use it in the same way that Japanese/Chinese tradition poets did. I think that the weakest imade is the first. It is the word 'bipedal', it sound too technical and it has a certainty to it which informs the reader rather then allowing them the opportunity to exp[lore other meanings for the image.

I agree with brian. I think that the 'hollowed out by information' is brilliant. To my mind it creates a dilemna. There is addition rather than subtraction being suggested, but it seems to me that the image of makes 'information' into a tool (like a spade). As I see it it seems to be reflecting the world of today where much of the lecturing of government (well in the UK at least) loads us up with information but takes away the most important thing about us: our humanity. Such as the fear of crime makes us suspicious of others; the lecturing on lifestyles reduces our ability to choose; etc.

Of course you may have meant something tottally different.

On the use of ''ti' and 'faeries'. Robert Duncan used this type of language to good effect in his work. I think it works quite well. the only other term that jarrs is 'dead messiahs'. I think it is because it is in the final line and the word 'dead' suggests denouement. I'm not sure it works. there is something cliched about it.

Overall though, I think that the shape of the poem and the manner in which it flows is great. I think that you skilfully use narratives to create a wave (applied to the sea) effect and so the reader cannot be anchored to a particular time. I don't know if that was your intent.

[twoleftfeet]

well. the only other term that jarrs is 'dead messiahs'. I think it is because it is in the final line and the word 'dead' suggests denouement. I'm not sure it works. there is something cliched about it.

I read "dead" as redundant , or fake i.e. Jesus is said to have risen from the tomb.
Works for me, is all I can say.

[Arian]

Hi Ben
Personally, I loved the hollowed out line. By far the poem's highlight.

I won't pretend I extracted any narrative sense from it, except the depiction of a dream scene (is it?), but I did enjoy the sound and rhythm. Which, even for me, is enough to make it a hit.

I've no objection to messiahs or faeries in principle, though I might in practice - it's all about context, surely?

Cheers
peter

[twoleftfeet]

I've no objection to messiahs or faeries in principle, though I might in practice - it's all about context, surely?
peter

You've been practising, Peter?

[thoke]

I've no objection to messiahs or faeries in principle, though I might in practice - it's all about context, surely?

That seems right to me. I'm completely open to the possibility that I have made poor use of faeries and messiahs, but it seems silly to ban words in principle.

[Arian]

Only the lapdancing bit, Geoff...

[brianedwards]

I've no objection to messiahs or faeries in principle, though I might in practice - it's all about context, surely?

That seems right to me. I'm completely open to the possibility that I have made poor use of faeries and messiahs, but it seems silly to ban words in principle.

Not ban. Avoid.