Origami Man

[Marc]

Your origami man,
folded just so.
Folded to be the
shape of a dream.
Crease created
to form and reform
a figure of perfection.
But unfolded
no more than a mirror
to the paper shaper.
Your own desire's
flat reflection.

[delph_ambi]

I like the concept and there's some appealing word play, but I can't help thinking this could have been said possibly more effectively in just three lines.

[calico]

I agree that the same thing is being said over again, but does that reflect origami? It's pretty obsessive isn't it, fold, fold and fold again.

[Arian]

this could have been said possibly more effectively in just three lines.

er...which are?

You're obviously seeing something I'm not.

[Arian]

Hi Marc

Like DA, I like the idea behind this, but I have a (different) issue with it. Mine is nothing to do with length, but logic.

It starts well, to my mind - you're right, people are often "folded" to fit an ideal, only to reveal a different reality when "unfolded". But, to me, the second half of your piece is saying the same as the first - that you were shaped to a dream, then (when unfolded) shaped to the same dream. I didn't quite follow.

I also had a mini problem with the repetition (deliberate, perhaps, but awkward to my ear) of folded.

All the same, a nice concept. Can't see how the point could be made in three lines, though.

cheers
peter

[brianedwards]

How about 2 lines?

What folds into the shape of a dream
unfolds to reveal desire's reflection.

B.

[Marc]

Well, folding is about repetition of an action. Hence you have repetition of the folding/folded idea and possibly repetiton of the idea itself although i argue that there is a subtle difference.

I'm saying that in a relationship where people don't yet really know each other you can have a desire imposed by the 'paper shaper ' but in this case you also have a subject (our origami man) who is weak and just offers himself as a malleable thing prepared to take on a persona. I've seen it happen.

To simplify it into Brian's two lines (good though they are) misses out much of the subtlety of the fuller version. It fails to comment on the concept of people being treated like an origami object - and allowing themselves to be so.

As always I don't fully get this idea that less is always more - If that were the case then Brian's 'Marriage in Japan' could undoubtedly be significantly reduced! (No offence intended B, it is very good and I'm sure you feel the length justified).

Marc

[brianedwards]

Sorry Marc, I rushed that off before I went to work this morning (the above that is, not Marriage in Japan!) I wasn't suggesting you should reduce by so much, just pointing out that I agreed with Cath that the "point" of your poem could, arguably, be expressed in 2 or 3 lines. But I have never had much time for the point of poetry . . .

Regards your current draft, I suggest you push the form more, maybe emphasize that obsessive folding that Megan suggested via a more obvious use of repetition, etc? Origami man is a superb idea, but i'd ditch "paper shaper" -- It's about as obvious a description as you could get for origami.

Just some thoughts. I felt I needed to come back after my previous throwaway comment.

B.

[delph_ambi]

I've just tried reading that first line as "You're origami man" rather than "Your origami man" and the syntax jumped into focus and made sense. Is it a typo?

[Marc]

I've just tried reading that first line as "You're origami man" rather than "Your origami man" and the syntax jumped into focus and made sense. Is it a typo?

No.
The origami man belongs to her. She shapes him (but ultimately he doesn't resist). Not sure why that's not working for you though?

Marc

[delph_ambi]

Because if you read it as: "You are (you're) 'origami man'; folded just so." (which is how I read it in my lightbulb moment) it makes perfect grammatical sense, whereas if you read it as: "Your origami man, folded just so." then you don't have a sentence at all although it looks like a sentence. The full stop after 'so' is what causes the problem. To make it make sense, you'd have to replace the comma with an 'is'. "Your origami man is folded just so." Then the full stop works because you've included a verb. Of course you can play around with grammar in poetry, but if you're going to use something that looks like a sentence, it's easier on the reader if it IS a sentence. With my reading the meaning is different, true, but the syntax is much easier to follow in my view. I think your intended reading would be clearer for the reader if you got rid of the punctuation and the capitals completely.

[Marc]

Hmmm, I see what you're saying and true its not really a entence due to the lack of a verb. However it is a statement. It's a gift as in 'here I am your origami man folded just so' (just right - its an Americanism I suppose). Seeing it that way do you still think it makes no sense? The poem is from the point of view of the orgami man and therefore to start with you are OM would not work I feel,
Cheers,
Marc

[delph_ambi]

If you started with 'here I am' as your first line, it would be crystal clear. I think that's probably what I'd do, though presumably not what you want to do (or you'd have done it).

As I appear to be the only person having difficulties with the opening sentence and working out the POV, you can legitimately note my views and move on. Now that you've explained the thought process so clearly, of course I'm seeing the poem as you want it seen, and can no longer reproduce my initial confusion.

[Suzanne]

Oh, nice!
I liked this, Marc.

I have read it a few times and think that the lat two lines are very clever indeed. The double meaning of flat works perfectly.

Is "just so" an Americanism?
It certainly has nice connotations for American me. I think it is said most often in a kind instructive/attentive voice.
You'd teach a child, for example, to lay a proper place setting by showing them and adding "just so". I can not think of a time when it is not used with fondness. I wonder if you knew that. How fun language is.

Using it those first lines makes the Origami man well folded with kind hands. Maybe that is why I had no problem understanding what the first lines meant.

My only nit would be the "the" in front of paper shaper. Somehow, I would tie the "you" more concretely to the paper shaper with a pronoun or juggling of words. Purely my opinion.


I remember other people have written origami poems and I have liked them, too. I might just write one myself.

Very nice,
Suzanne

[Arian]

What folds into the shape of a dream
unfolds to reveal desire's reflection.

Isn't that just reducing poetry (indeed, any form of reflection) to mere aphorism? One can't help but wonder what such determined reductionism would make of your own recent (admirable, but long) pieces, Brian.

cheers
peter

[brianedwards]

What folds into the shape of a dream
unfolds to reveal desire's reflection.

Isn't that just reducing poetry (indeed, any form of reflection) to mere aphorism? One can't help but wonder what such determined reductionism would make of your own recent (admirable, but long) pieces, Brian.

cheers
peter

Yes Peter, which is kind of what I said in my follow-up comment. I was merely highlighting that the "point" of the poem could arguably be reduced to a couple of lines. However, poetry is not, and should not, be simply about expressing a "point", right?

B.

[Denis Joe]

I've just tried reading that first line as "You're origami man" rather than "Your origami man" and the syntax jumped into focus and made sense. Is it a typo?

it makes sense to me using Delph's suggestion (It would also add a touch of humour as in the way that the killer in movies says: You're toast).

I like the idea of this very much. There have been suggestions as to reducing it. I think that there is some validity to that. What about playing about with a few lines (eg: placing the words in different order but creating a new sense each time)? I think that the idea that you have stated is a pretty exciting one but the way that the poem is, at the moment, doesn't work for me.

It would be great to experiment with the layout of the poem but the editor on here doesn't seem to allow for that (but I admit: I am a bit docile when it comes to using HTML).

[Arian]

... poetry is not, and should not, be simply about expressing a "point", right?
B.

I think we have 100% agreement on that one, Bri.
cheers
peter

[David]

I like the opening, incomplete sentence or no, although there's no reason that I can say for having a ful stop there rather than a comma and running on into lines 3 and 4.

How does this look?

Your origami man,
folded just so,
folded to be the
shape of a dream.

Crease created

to form and reform
a figure of perfection;
your own desire's
flat reflection.

Just a thought. Nice stuff, Marc.

Cheers

David

[Marc]

Thanks all and David I like your changes. I just feel that to be a flat mirror/reflection it needs to be unfolded so I've edited to lose the paper shaper but kept the unfolded line. Oh and I've kept the stop to reflect the individual stop/start nature of folding, if that makes sense.

Thanks all.

Marc

[Marc]

Your origami man,
folded just so.
Folded to be the
shape of a dream.
Crease created
to form and reform
a figure of perfection.

But unfolded
just a mirror
to your own desire's
flat reflection.



Original:

Your origami man,
folded just so.
Folded to be the
shape of a dream.
Crease created
to form and reform
a figure of perfection.
But unfolded
no more than a mirror
to the paper shaper.
Your own desire's
flat reflection.

[twoleftfeet]

Marc,

In your explanation you said that pressure was applied by the "shaper" and the origami man to some extent is passive,
but IMHO this aspect isn't coming out which is a shame since the amount of pressure needed to fold a piece of paper
is so small

Phyllo San Sensei 3rd Dan Origami