Thoughts near Oaken Bank Woods [rev 1 + nudges] (was Visitors)

[JJWilliamson]

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations very clear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where bluebell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

By the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves,
his zealous beak so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

A multitude of avid suitors
fight for territorial rights,
unaware that feisty brooders
might bear viral parasites.

For bird flu was a stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all their schemes;
a virus stalks them once again,
the fear invading all our dreams?

Original

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where bluebell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His skilful beak so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was a stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes;
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear invading all our dreams?

[NotQuiteSure]

Hi JJ,
couple of questions.
If 'their aspirations are unclear' (L3) then how does N know they're 'preparing for their March campaign' (L8)? And isn't that their aspiration?
What's with the question mark at the end? Where's the question to which it attaches?

Regards, Not

[Firebird]

Hi JJ,

This isn’t really working for me, I afraid. I like the stanzas in isolation (especially s3), but at present they don’t seem to add up to a great deal at the moment. I know there is an attempt to try to tie the poem up in relation to bird flu in s5, but it doesn’t really work at present for me. Does a virus stalk him (The bird) once again? A virus stalks us, doesn’t it? Not the birds. And what is this fear that lingers in his dreams? The bird flu reoccurring I’m guessing? The virus stalking the bird in his dreams is what I think you mean here, but I don’t think what really works. Anyway, not for me.


Cheers,

Tristan

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where blue bell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His method seems so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

[JJWilliamson]

Thank you very much, gents, for taking a look at this one for me. Appreciated.

It's my little attempt at a Covid 19 poem, one I've been tinkering with for ages. That's the closing virus, Tristan.

It all started when I was out on a woodland walk in early spring, about a mile away from my house. I noticed that the sparrows were making a huge commotion in the hedgerows, as if fighting for squatting rights. It isn't really clear at this point what they're doing or why they're fighting. They were clearly oblivious to the potential threat coronavirus brings, just as they were during the disastrous avian flu epidemic. Later the goldfinch makes an appearance and the same thoughts crossed my mind.

The visitors are the goldfinches and the coronavirus.

/bickering.
Hi JJ,
couple of questions.
If 'their aspirations are unclear' (L3) then how does N know they're 'preparing for their March campaign' (L8)? ...It's not clear at first because of the nature of the bickering, but the breeding/nesting season is upon us and other preparations are bound to be occurring. There is more than one action.

And isn't that their aspiration? ...Normally yes. It can be pluralised though.
What's with the question mark at the end? Where's the question to which it attaches? ...Yes, I might drop that. It's supposed to leave a hanging question because I don't make a direct reference to coronavirus. I originally had "covid" in the close, although the line was different.

Regards, Not

Hi JJ,

This isn’t really working for me, I afraid. I like the stanzas in isolation (especially s3), but at present they don’t seem to add up to a great deal at the moment. ...It's a progressive poem, Tristan, where the speaker begins with a few observations and ends up thinking about covid 19. The speaker notices how the sparrows make the first bickering moves towards their annual mating antics. Later, the goldfinch song, which is beautifully sweet, fills the air and woods. Then, the speaker, after watching the finch collect the leaves and twigs, wonders what they think about and how they think. What do they understand or "perceive".

I know there is an attempt to try to tie the poem up in relation to bird flu in s5, but it doesn’t really work at present for me. ...Bird flu devastated bird populations all over the world and yet they remained oblivious, just as they are with coronavirus. We, on the other hand have nightmares just thinking about it. The covid 19 virus is the stalking virus in S5.

Does a virus stalk him (The bird) once again? ...It's Covid 19 that now stalks. They are highly susceptible to the disease but are considered low risk for humans if we don't interact, EG Messing with bird tables and feeders etc.

A virus stalks us, doesn’t it? Not the birds. ...Both, or so I've read.

And what is this fear that lingers in his dreams? ...Lingers in OUR dreams not his. He has his mind on breeding and nesting, whilst we just quietly wait for the virus to strike. The fear lingers in our dreams. Dr Hillary was saying a great number of us have had, and are having, sleeping difficulties because of the fear. The virus stalks him nevertheless.

The bird flu reoccurring? ...No, just another disaster waiting in the wings. The closing virus is Covid 19. I'll fiddle with the close if it's not apparent.


Cheers,

Tristan

Anyway! I hope some of this helps but I honestly thought the progression and theme were clear. Just goes to show.

Best to both

JJ

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where blue bell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His method seems so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

[Firebird]

Anyway! I hope some of this helps but I honestly thought the progression and theme were clear. Just goes to show.

The progression is clear JJ, (except for the final stanza) but not enough to add up to more than an observation about birds (I wanted more after following the progression for four stanzas). I knew you were pushIng towards covid in the final stanza, of course, but it just felt like an add on to me. And a convoluted one at that. It may just be me though. Anyway that’s my view. Sorry to be so blunt. As it says on the can: this ain’t a ‘love-in’ .

Cheers,

Tristan

[JJWilliamson]

No need to apologise, Tristan. Critique is the name of the game, and I thank you for getting back to me. I'm pleased the Covid link was apparent after all. I thought I'd completely missed the mark. Not for the first time.

Best

JJ

[TrevorConway]

Hi JJ,

It worked fairly well for me. Most of the rhymes didn't feel too forced (the exceptions for me were leas and perceives, and maybe also campaign). The reference to the virus felt out of place and tacked on at the end, so I'd suggest deleting that verse. I think it works better as a simple nature poem, although some new elements that a reader might not expect in a nature poem might be welcome (but not the virus). Some more specific comments below. Hope they help.

T

Sparrows are the first this year, [Nice, simple opening. Works fine]
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear, [I can guess their aspirations if they're overeager, so maybe this idea doesn't fit]
oblivious now to winter’s gales. [or "having wintered potent gales"?]

They argue in the shrubs and trees, [Nice]
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign. [or "flurrying feathers over terrain"?]

A tuneful piping finds a mate, [Delete "A"?
where blue bell woods appear to ring, [Maybe not "appear to", something else?]
and there beside the kissing gate [Maybe "kissing" is too romantic, something more unusual?]
a goldfinch sings of early spring. [Can't believe it sings "of" spring, so maybe it sings "to"/"across" spring or something else?]

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His method seems so versatile; [Love this idea, but the phrasing feels a bit off. How about "his stubborn beak so versatile"?]
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

[CalebPerry]

My feelings are similar to Tristan's, but I want to praise you for writing very capably in rhyme, which isn't easy.

I have noticed that this is something that happens over and over again: A poet will write out a progression of events or observations to support the poem's ending argument, but it turns out that not everyone sees things the way the poet sees them.

I don't care for the line "I wonder what his mind perceives" because it is so literal. Nonetheless, you could end the poem on that line and have a good nature poem.

[Macavity]

I enjoyed v1-v4 JJ, the chaotic energy of the sparrows, the contrasting purposeful goldfinch, the clarity of the individual, the confused crowd. Human parallels there, observing nature's lessons, the 'I' reflective and appreciative. Like some others, I find the concluding stanza is not needed, despite your intention.

best

mac

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where blue bell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His method seems so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

[JJWilliamson]

Thank you very much, Trevor, Perry and mac, for the great comments. Appreciated.

Hi JJ,

It worked fairly well for me. Most of the rhymes didn't feel too forced (the exceptions for me were leas and perceives, and maybe also campaign). The reference to the virus felt out of place and tacked on at the end, so I'd suggest deleting that verse. I think it works better as a simple nature poem, although some new elements that a reader might not expect in a nature poem might be welcome (but not the virus). Some more specific comments below. Hope they help.

T

Sparrows are the first this year, [Nice, simple opening. Works fine]
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear, [I can guess their aspirations if they're overeager, so maybe this idea doesn't fit]
oblivious now to winter’s gales. [or "having wintered potent gales"?] ...We had an incredibly wet and windy winter, so much so that I eventually stopped going out for my daily walk through the woods. It lasted for months.

They argue in the shrubs and trees, [Nice]
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign. [or "flurrying feathers over terrain"?]

A tuneful piping finds a mate, [Delete "A"? ...Necessary for the meter. Remember it's written in iambic tetrameter all the way through, with the odd headless iamb thrown in at the head of a line, and for the sake of flow.
where blue bell woods appear to ring, [Maybe not "appear to", something else?] ...I was playing with bell and ring. Strictly speaking it should be "sing".
and there beside the kissing gate [Maybe "kissing" is too romantic, something more unusual?] ...It's just the name of that kind of gate. You find kissing gates all over the place, where the gate swings from one post to another, allowing the walker to sidle through.
a goldfinch sings of early spring. [Can't believe it sings "of" spring, so maybe it sings "to"/"across" spring or something else?] ...Hmm. It's supposed to show a celebration of spring. Let me think on it.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His method seems so versatile; [Love this idea, but the phrasing feels a bit off. How about "his stubborn beak so versatile"?] ...I wasn't keen on 'method' myself. Will ponder. Thanks. Maybe "eager beak". Will think.
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

My feelings are similar to Tristan's, but I want to praise you for writing very capably in rhyme, which isn't easy. ...Thanks

I have noticed that this is something that happens over and over again: A poet will write out a progression of events or observations to support the poem's ending argument, but it turns out that not everyone sees things the way the poet sees them. ...You have taken the thoughts right out of my mind. I must've said the same thing to other people over and over again. Point taken and well said.

Nonetheless, you could end the poem on that line and have a good nature poem. ...Yes, It's looking that way.

I enjoyed v1-v4 JJ, the chaotic energy of the sparrows, the contrasting purposeful goldfinch, the clarity of the individual, the confused crowd. Human parallels there, observing nature's lessons, the 'I' reflective and appreciative. Like some others, I find the concluding stanza is not needed, despite your intention. ...Yes, the evidence is overwhelming. There's a very good chance it might just morph into a simple nature poem. I'll see what occurs because it will need some more meat on the bone of I'm to go down that road. I'll let it sit for a few days.


best

mac

Best to all

JJ

[Macavity]

There's a very good chance it might just morph into a simple nature poem.

And charming it would be too JJ. A lot to be said for some light in these times.

best

mac

[ray miller]

I think it's very good. A few observations -
oblivious now to winter’s gales. - rhythm slightly off here. Maybe "forgetful now of winter's gales"?
Shouldn't bluebell be one word?

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

I think you need something stronger than a comma after schemes.

Maybe "the fear invading all our dreams"?

[CalebPerry]

JJ, I was afraid that you'd be offended by my remark, and I'm glad you weren't.

I do want to add something that I've said before. Let's say that four or five people critique your poem, and one or two of them understand the message, then by all means keep it as it is. There's no harm in sending a message in a poem that only a minority of people understand. It's when no one seems to understand it that you have a problem.

For example, Ray seems to get it.

[JJWilliamson]

Thanks again, mac and Perry, for dropping in to comment. Appreciated.

No, I wasn't in the least bit offended, Perry. The poem came to me as I was walking through some local woods near my house. It's about a mile's walk, past a number of farms, to get there. They are preceded by a narrow, hedge lined bridleway/path, and this is where I first saw and heard the sparrows. As you enter the upper woods you have to pass through a kissing gate or brave the adjacent stile. This was where I saw and heard the goldfinches, one in particular. They were SO carefree it crossed my mind that they weren't aware of the hidden dangers and couldn't care less. That was when I began to wonder how they perceive things, how they thought. That was my undoing.

Thanks for dropping in, Ray. Appreciated.

YES!! Somebody likes it. Flags out, bottles opened.

I think it's very good. A few observations -
oblivious now to winter’s gales. - rhythm slightly off here. Maybe "forgetful now of winter's gales"? ...Yes, I'm eliding oblivious to three syllables, which is where the rhythm falters. I naturally say "o/BLIV/yus". Your line is metrically better, no doubt about it.
Shouldn't bluebell be one word? ...Crikey! I've only written about them about a hundred times. Consider it changed.

For bird flu was the stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes,
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear that lingers in our dreams?

I think you need something stronger than a comma after schemes. ...I originally had a semi. I'll take another look.

Maybe "the fear invading all our dreams"? ...That's a good alternative. It works with the migratory invasion, the viral invasion and sleep depravation. I listened to Dr Hillary talking about disturbed sleeping patterns, as people worried about covid 19, just the other day.

Thanks again, Ray. Good points all.

Best to all

JJ

[TrevorConway]

Very nice, JJ - I like the brooders/suitors rhyme! And you've made the virus idea fit in a bit better, I think, though I find "For" used as a synonym for "because" very archaic. Similarly, the "Thoughts near" feels a bit too in thrall to the Romatic poets, so how about just "Oaken Bank" or "Oaken Bank Woods"? In any case, much better than "Visitors". And maybe the "Then" in verse 4 is redundant? This version definitely runs smoother. Good work, JJ.

T

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where bluebell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves,
his zealous beak so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

A multitude of avid suitors
fight for territorial rights,
unaware that feisty brooders
might bear viral parasites.

For bird flu was a stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all their schemes;
a virus stalks them once again,
the fear invading all our dreams?

Original

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations still unclear,
oblivious now to winter’s gales.

They argue in the shrubs and trees,
fill the teasels by the lane,
bicker on the banks and leas,
preparing for their March campaign.

A tuneful piping finds a mate,
where bluebell woods appear to ring,
and there beside the kissing gate
a goldfinch sings of early spring.

Then by the narrow wooden stile
I watch him gather twigs and leaves.
His skilful beak so versatile;
I wonder what his mind perceives.

For bird flu was a stealthy strain,
the scourge that threatened all his schemes;
a virus stalks him once again,
the fear invading all our dreams?

[NotQuiteSure]

.
Hi JJ,
beyond the technical I don't think this works that well.
For me it falls down when
I wonder what his mind perceives
does not lead to any exploration/elaboration of this wondering. I was expecting a series of questions about what he might or
might not perceive rather that a return to the thought (which I assumed finished) in S3.

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations all too clear,
their bluster like the winter’s gales.

I think 'sing' (L12) trips/intrudes on the rhyme scheme.


Regards, Not

.

[JJWilliamson]

Thanks a lot, Trevor, for dropping back in to look at the revision .

Very nice, JJ - I like the brooders/suitors rhyme! And you've made the virus idea fit in a bit better, ...I hoped this extra stanza would provide a link from the romantic to the potentially tragic.

I think, though I find "For" used as a synonym for "because" very archaic. ...Hmm, never thought of that. I must have one foot in the past It's there for the sake of meter. Let me ponder.

Similarly, the "Thoughts near" feels a bit too in thrall to the Romatic poets, so how about just "Oaken Bank" or "Oaken Bank Woods"? In any case, much better than "Visitors". And maybe the "Then" in verse 4 is redundant? ...It IS a nod to the Romantics. As for 'then'. Yes, I could drop it without the meter being affected. It would mean using a headless iamb but I do that all the time, anyway.

This version definitely runs smoother. Good work, JJ. ...Thanks for that

T

Best

JJ

[JJWilliamson]

Thanks for getting back to me, Not.

.
Hi JJ,
beyond the technical I don't think this works that well. ...Ah well, fair enough.
For me it falls down when
I wonder what his mind perceives
does not lead to any exploration/elaboration of this wondering. ...It's a simple thought, like the way I used to wonder how my dog thought. We often attribute human emotions to animals when we all know they think differently. I just wondered what the bird's perceptions were.

I was expecting a series of questions about what he might or
might not perceive rather that a return to the thought (which I assumed finished) in S3.

Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations all too clear, ...The more I think about this line the more I find myself agreeing with you. There's a confusion that attracts the speaker but the eventual aim is quite clear. Consider it changed.
their bluster like the winter’s gales.

I think 'sing' (L12) trips/intrudes on the rhyme scheme. ...Ah, S3 is loaded with piping, ring, sing, spring and only one of them is a gerund. It may be overloaded. I was playing with the sonics.


Regards, Not

.

All good questions and observations, Not. Thanks for that.

Best

JJ

[NotQuiteSure]

...Ah, S3 is loaded with piping, ring, sing, spring and only one of them is a gerund. It may be overloaded. I was playing with the sonics.

don't want to baffle you with technicalities, JJ, and (ignoring ring/spring)
'sing' is the only one of those (ings) that is stressed, that's why it trips me
up (I think). Now tell me I'm wrong

(OTT, I know, but a goldfinch serenades the spring ?)

Regards, Not

.

[lotus]

dear JJ

Wonderful sounds here

bicker on the banks and leas,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

and i truly enjoy how March might be movement as well as a month

preparing for their March campaign.


i read a bit through the thread//comments
and perhaps it's fine if a poem is only for oneself
and as usual also for those who happen to find themselves on the same wavelength
at any moment ,,, now ,, next month or 5 years from now

for me ....if the poem is only understood by myself and the voices in my head i am ok with it
those voices are a mirrored timelessness that we all know on other dimensions

a warm smile
silent lotus

[JJWilliamson]

Thank you for the kind comment, Lotus. Much appreciated.

dear JJ

Wonderful sounds here

bicker on the banks and leas,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

and i truly enjoy how March might be movement as well as a month ...Delighted you liked.

preparing for their March campaign.

Lotus

Thanks for the sage advice, Not.


i read a bit through the thread//comments
and perhaps it's fine if a poem is only for oneself
and as usual also for those who happen to find themselves on the same wavelength
at any moment ,,, now ,, next month or 5 years from now ...Yes, topical poems are always short-lived. BUT! How could I resist. . I'll probably revise the virus out of this poem eventually.

for me ....if the poem is only understood by myself and the voices in my head i am ok with it
those voices are a mirrored timelessness that we all know on other dimensions

...Ah, S3 is loaded with piping, ring, sing, spring and only one of them is a gerund. It may be overloaded. I was playing with the sonics.

don't want to baffle you with technicalities, JJ, and (ignoring ring/spring)
'sing' is the only one of those (ings) that is stressed, that's why it trips me
up (I think). Now tell me I'm wrong ...Yip, you're wrong. . As you say, "ring and spring" are stressed. The others are not stressed but they do act as timely unstressed words/syllables. . Would you like me to put up a scan on that stanza?

(OTT, I know, but a goldfinch serenades the spring ?) ...Not a bad suggesthion, Not.

Regards, Not

.

Thanks again

Best to both

JJ

[NotQuiteSure]

Yip, you're wrong.

It's actually grown on my JJ!
But 'zealous' and 'territorial' ... not at all.

Couple of further thoughts ...


Sparrows are the first this year,
a flock of overeager males,
their aspirations all too clear,
impervious to winter’s gales.

...
marshalling their March Campaigns


I still think you got a problem with the switch at L12
and wondered if it might be worth tweaking, along the lines of ..

...
I wonder if he does perceive

whether all those avid suitors
fighting for their breeding rights,
are aware that feisty brooders
could harbour viral parasites?

If bird flu was a stealthy strain,
a scourge that threatened all their schemes;
what stalks them now is, once again,
the fear that takes flight in our dreams?



Regards, Not


.

[lotus]

i've enjoyed
visiting this one again

silent lotus