Moving House

[Lia]

Moving House

I met them in a busy corner of the high street,
buying suitcases. They were going coastal, they said,
as though it were an ocean place in the mind scattered with seabirds,
waves a thundering madness behind each retina.
They were going, and they weren't coming back.

A house on the edge of a cliff, was all they wanted. For several years
they'd foraged, tore articles from newspapers
and learned about structure. In the woods
they found joists in the trees. Chopped knotted lengths
from the greenest trunks and put them into storage. The granite

outcrop on the downs provided
all the stone they could shape with their pick-axes.
The vehicle crunched and clicked under the weight
as they brought each mound to the edge of things. They hauled
and stacked and

did not care about erosion
although they had been warned well enough
of the land’s loose and brittle hip. Perhaps,
they hoped for it – the great heaving turns of earth under them,
broken away to thump down the rough cut of the cliff.

Gulls caught sight of them mid-fall, sea coming nearer –
The roar of hunger and salted froth at each opening

of its glorious gape. House around them

in a rush of creaks

and clatter sighing as it sank beneath the waves.

[CalebPerry]

This is a day to be remembered -- you've finally posted a poem that I understood on first reading! I want to send you a metal or award or something like that.

I like the poem, but before I continue, you've run up against one of my prejudices -- using horizontal spaces in lieu of punctuation. I hate that so much that I don't usually read such poems. However, in this case I see the technique: the spaces get more numerous as the cliff grows weaker and the house is about to fall.

This poem is so dramatic, with the foolish people (presumably dying) surrounded by their house which is sinking in the ocean. Is it based on a true story?

Except for the spacing, I definitely like the poem.

[jisbell00]

Hi Lia,

I agree, this is splendid stuff! I am glad to see you've found more time to post. My favorite bit: "the land's loose and brittle hip." But the whole thing has drama, karma perhaps, and some pathos. I am reminded of lemmings, similarly drawn to clifftops, so they say.

Cheers,
John

[ray miller]

I like the poem very much but I can't be doing with all the white space. Caleb thinks he sees a pattern in it but it looks pretty arbitrary to me - and irritating. Going coastal and the land's brittle hip were my favourite parts.
edges of things - edge of things?
Gulls caught sight of them - I wonder about "Gulls would catch sight of them..." presenting it as a possibility rather than fait accomplit.

[Lia]

This is a day to be remembered -- you've finally posted a poem that I understood on first reading! I want to send you a metal or award or something like that.

Well, I must say that I'm pleased as punch to receive a Caleb Award! I doubt I'll win another one very soon so I will certainly treasure this award and this moment as the day I made some kind of sense. You could give this out once a month to some unsuspecting poet.

However, in this case I see the technique: the spaces get more numerous as the cliff grows weaker and the house is about to fall.

That's smashing, Caleb. I'm glad you could see what I was trying to do. I could go further with the idea and make it look even more scattered towards the end, but there's a risk I might make it too messy and, therefore, harder to read. What do you think?

I'm glad you like the poem. I often hear about coastal erosion. There was an article in a newspaper some years back about a man's shed disappearing over the cliff in Devon. I've got notes, hold on...

“Mr [*] said he knew the cliffs were eroding when he and his wife [*] moved in. He said,

'Fortunately we have got 60 metres left and given that I'm in my 80's, I'm not too worried about it. Although my grandchildren might not have the inheritance their parents would like them to have.'

Despite the erosion Mr [*] says he does not want to move.

'It's wonderful living here, light airy and beautiful views,' he said.”

- from an article by Anthony Joseph for the Daily Mail.

There have been many cases of houses falling into the sea, but whether someone has gone over the cliff with their house, I don't know. I have a thing for the sea and was inspired by the chap and his viewpoint so I thought I'd write something.

Lia

[Lia]

I'm glad you like it, John. And that brittle hip line. It is a bit like the lemming idea, isn't it? A strange and curious thing... a dark romance, perhaps, and I think that's what the sea might be for some of us.

Many thanks,

Lia

[jisbell00]

Hi Lia,

I'm not sure you;'ve run into this Baudelaire poem, but it's all about that dark romance: https://www.poetica.fr/poeme-100/charle ... et-la-mer/

Cheers,
John

[Lia]

I like the poem very much but I can't be doing with all the white space. Caleb thinks he sees a pattern in it but it looks pretty arbitrary to me - and irritating.

Ah. That's frustrating, Ray. Maybe I could make it better by breaking the last line. Something like;

and clatter... sighing ....as it sank

.....beneath

..............................................................the waves.

edges of things - edge of things?

Yes, I could do that. Thank you.

Gulls caught sight of them - I wonder about "Gulls would catch sight of them..." presenting it as a possibility rather than fait accomplit.

I'm not sure about this because I'm trying to say that it happened so that it makes the story more present and dramatic. Having said that, your suggestion still suggests that it happens but in some near future. I'll give it some serious thought.

Many thanks,

Lia

[Lia]

Thank you for the link, John. I know a few of Baudelaire's poems, but not very many and not this one. I like the comparison - the eternal battle between the two and the idea of the sea as an infinite unfolding blade. Some great language from Baudelaire! Thank you.

Lia

[CalebPerry]

Regarding the horizontal whites spaces, you don't want to make them too predictable. If and when a cliff breaks into pieces, it won't do it in a uniform way. (You'll notice that I hate the horizontal spaces, but I'm still willing to give you advice on how to do them. Ha ha.)

A practical thing to consider is that it may not be easy for a publisher to duplicate your horizontal spaces just the way you want. From time to time, I see publishers posting a picture or screen shot of a poem instead of just printing it. (Actually, that's what you did in this thread!)

As for my awards, I can see they irritate you, so I won't award them to you too often. I will never stop encouraging you, and every other poet I know, to write clearly.

[jisbell00]

Glad you enjoyed it, Lia!

Baudelaire is very likely the greatest French poet of the nineteenth century. He's hard to beat; like Yeats, he had an incredible ear. Here's another with a splendid opening:

https://www.bonjourpoesie.fr/lesgrandsc ... /lalbatros

Cheers,
John

[Lia]

Oh no. It didn't irritate me. It made me laugh, Caleb.

Thank you for your thoughts on spacing. I think I'll have to be quite selective in where I send the poem. There are a few mags interested in visual poems... more so in the US than here, maybe. I agree with you about not making the poem look too uniform or predictable as it breaks apart. I don't think I've got it quite right yet, but I will also need to be careful.

Lia

[Macavity]

I've skimmed the other responses Lia, so forgive the repetitions! I did read that the spacing progression related to the theme, which explains the use of comma punctuation and spacing. I've tended to use spacing to replace punctuation, or for pause effect, another mode to aid reading and pacing. In that context, in some lines, I found the poem difficult to read initially. I guess it made my reading more challenging, but then that brings a more concentrated effort! Climate change is a fashionable theme, but an important one. foraging is also in vogue! Their sourcing of 'natural materials' somewhat suspect. I suspect some satire here. Their deafness on erosion issues reinforced that viewpoint. Climate change denial! How 'facts 'have become polarized and politicized in our world, though there is some suggestion here that they wanted a 'spectacle' end to their demise. The gulls were no doubt entertained Some nice sonics in that ending... sighing/sank...though 'glorious gape' sounded a tad archaic. I can relate to the destructive constructive when I look in the mirror and see behind the retina of each opposing eye

I met them in a busy corner of the high street

They want to escape the 'crowd', the urban?

'tore' because you have used 'cut' twice or wanted some sense of mania?

'brittle hip' was an interesting image

some initial thoughts

will be back

Phil

[Lia]

I can relate to the destructive constructive when I look in the mirror and see behind the retina of each opposing eye

That's a bit of poetry in itself, Phil. And I can't help agreeing. There's something quite interesting when the two meet. Thank you very much for your comments.

They want to escape the 'crowd', the urban?

Yes.

'tore' because you have used 'cut' twice or wanted some sense of mania?

A sense of mania and desperation. But now you've brought my attention to the two 'cuts', I'm going to have to sort them out, aren't I. I'll have 'chopped' for the first one. I reckon it's a much better word just there, too, so thanks for the nudge.

At the moment, I'm thinking about 'glorious gape' and if it's archaic. If it is, I suppose you mean the word 'glorious' which also means that I might be in a bit of trouble because I've written quite a few poems with the word (on purpose) and was even thinking of putting them all into a file together and calling it Glorious. Anyway... for this poem, I could use 'insatiable gape' which would work with the context of the lines around it. I've never used the word before and have been waiting to use it. What do you think?

Lia

[Macavity]

Hi Lia,
I would cut the whole sentence. Milton came to mind, but could be me!

Phil

[Lia]

Ah I don't know him very well, though I'm sure I should. I'll think about what you've said.

Actually, what I might do is freshen up the language around that area to see if I can improve it.

Lia

[Morpheus]

Hi Lia,

I enjoyed this and your unusual presentation of it. I'm also jealous that you got a Caleb award. I've toiled for many moths on here with little prospect of a plaque in Caleb Corner. To quote Cope, I have "no hope, even, of a modest bust." in Murdock Abbey. It's nice to see you get some recognition.

Anyway, getting into the specifics of the poem. I'm not entirely sure the stubbornness of old age comes across. It a very engaging narrative but it feels like watching a slow death by choice without understanding the trauma that lead to the decision. Here are some thoughts that popped into my head while reading it.

Moving House The title is amusing and the poem is too in a Royston Vasey sort of way

I met them in a busy corner of the high street, N is in the poem at the start and then doesn't make an appearance again. You could consider starting the poem from "They were going coastal" otherwise I'm left wondering why N was there at the start but didn't do anything to save them at the end.
buying suitcases. They were going coastal, they said,
as though it were an ocean place in the mind scattered with seabirds,
waves a thundering madness behind each retina. Interesting line, I want to know more about why they are mad
They were going, and they weren't coming back. And the authorities turned a blind eye? I can understand a shed but a whole house without an intervention from the police is strange

A house on the edge of a cliff, was all they wanted. For several years
they'd foraged, tore articles from newspapers
and learned about structure. In the woods
they found joists in the trees. Chopped knotted lengths
from the greenest trunks and put them into storage. The granite The line break here is a bit odd like them I suppose. They built their own house without planning permission and they were just left to it? The narrative is very surreal.

outcrop on the downs provided
all the stone they could shape with their pick-axes.
The vehicle crunched and clicked under the weight I'm a bit lost, what vehicle? A digger?
as they brought each mound to the edge of things. They hauled
and stacked and

did not care about erosion Why not? Old age you say? It sounds like there should be more to it.
although they had been warned well enough
of the land’s loose and brittle hip. Perhaps,
they hoped for it – the great heaving turns of earth under them,
broken away to thump down the rough cut of the cliff. Why would anyone hope for this? Were they depressed? Did they have debts? etc. It's a big gap in the narrative.

Gulls caught sight of them mid-fall, sea coming nearer –
The roar of hunger and salted froth at each opening

of its glorious gape. House around them

in a rush of creaks

and clatter sighing as it sank beneath the waves. Coastal erosion is fairly natural so it's not quite the climate change theme that some say crops up in your poems. They let the ocean take their life without much explanation

[David]

It's a dramatic story, Lia. I enjoyed it more in the conventional lay-out, but I am a conventional old geezer. I like the build-up a lot, and I wonder whether the poem would be better if you were to leave them on the edge of things, suspended in uncertainty, rather than trying to describe - and illustrate - their ultimate downfall. That downfall is implicit in their precarious position. I think it would be more rewarding to the reader to leave them perched there at the end.

If you do want to include the catastrophe at the end, there seems to be a great sense of predictability about "sank beneath the waves" ... unless you are are using that rather hackneyed phrase ironically (and, if you are, I don't know how).

While I'm being pedantic, should it be "torn" rather than "tore"?

Go on. Leave them with their end uncertain (but almost certain).

Cheers

David

[Lia]

I'm also jealous that you got a Caleb award. I've toiled for many moths on here with little prospect of a plaque in Caleb Corner. To quote Cope, I have "no hope, even, of a modest bust." in Murdock Abbey. It's nice to see you get some recognition.

haha! It didn't come easy, Morpheus. I had to work for it. Considering that this poem won it, just imagine the kind of poetry I had to write to get to this moment!

Thank you for your in depth critique. It's appreciated. You said,

"I'm not entirely sure the stubbornness of old age comes across."

It isn't about old age so maybe that's why (I said that in a cheeky tone). The chap in the article was in his 80's but I was caught by what he said about living there. He moved there knowing the risk and he wanted to stay regardless of the risk. Maybe the next landslide will take more than 60 metres of his back garden. He knew that. He needed to be on that cliff with that view, and the wind and light. The poem's about obsession - a dark romance with the sea - so it's that kind of madness. Hold on, let me find an image...



If you look closely, you can see his bluish-grey shed right on the edge of the cliff. This was taken before it fell along with part of his garden. The police didn't intervene. At least, not at the time of this article.

"They built their own house without planning permission and they were just left to it?"

Maybe the people in the poem bought a few acres of land with planning permission. Maybe they were there for a good while before anything happened. Originally, I had 'I met them once in a busy corner of the high street ..."

"I'm a bit lost, what vehicle? A digger?"

I was kind of being a bit evasive because it's a slight metaphor to me, but I don't need to be precious about it. I'll have trailer. Thank you for pointing it out.

"Why would anyone hope for this? Were they depressed? Did they have debts? etc. It's a big gap in the narrative."

I don't think they were any of these things. They weren't unhappy. The narrator is contemplating and questioning. I think it says something about the N - they might have a little bit of an obsession with the sea, too!

"Coastal erosion is fairly natural so it's not quite the climate change theme that some say crops up in your poems."

It is fairly natural, that's very true. This next bit struck a chord:

"N is in the poem at the start and then doesn't make an appearance again. You could consider starting the poem from "They were going coastal" otherwise I'm left wondering why N was there at the start but didn't do anything to save them at the end."

The idea is that the N is relaying the story of what happened to two people she once knew (aquaintances), but I see exactly what you mean. I've noticed a couple of places in the poem where I should've made it feel more like the N was telling the story the entire time. I'll fix that.

Thank you for your help. Looks like I've got some work to do.

Lia

[Lia]

Hello David,

"Go on. Leave them with their end uncertain (but almost certain)."

haha well, I suppose I could. But is it dark enough? Mind you, I think things are going to change a little bit because of something Morpheus just said. I need to make it feel more like the N is relaying the story. The trouble is, how does the N know what happened to the couple at all?... unless they'd heard it in the news. I've got an awful feeling that I won't be able to end on an uncertainty. But I might be able to end on an assumption.

"While I'm being pedantic, should it be "torn" rather than "tore"?"

Ah, I don't know. Should it? I thought it was tore. They'd foraged, they'd ...torn. Oh. It used to say 'they foraged'. What's the correct grammar, David? Can I have either? ( they or they'd)

""sank beneath the waves" ... unless you are are using that rather hackneyed phrase ironically (and, if you are, I don't know how)"

I don't know either. I didn't even know it was hackneyed. Blimey. That's going to cause a problem. Thanks! Is this your ploy to get an uncertain ending?

I'll see what I can do.

Lia

[Macavity]

Just to note rising sea levels due to climate change impact on cliff erosion:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/241552/ ... d-erosion/

https://environment.ec.europa.eu/news/r ... 3-03-29_en

The catastrophe of climate change is a consequence of human behaviours.

So I have to disagree with you there Morph., in the sense that our impact on the 'natural' process is our responsibility.

[Morpheus]

Mac, I studied Geography and Geology at A level. Climate change has been accelerated by human activity but coastal erosion has many causes including rock type (softer rocks like boulder clays and chalk are susceptible for example) and movement of natural barriers such as sand bars and rocks by stormy weather.

The sea level does, of course, have some bearing on the level at which the sea in nibbling away at the strata. But to blame coastal erosion on climate change entirely raises my eyebrow and it is an educated one that spent many years studying in this area and I don't come here to comment on articles in the media.

[Macavity]

We'll agree to disagree on this Morph

[Morpheus]

That's cool Mac.

I need to save my rockets for other wild frontier lands.

[Macavity]