The Waiting Room - edited

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Sharra
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:06 am

Edited
Even small children understand waiting.
They draw in the dust, giggle, whine, fall off chairs,
pulled back into line by whispering parents. They wriggle
against it now, but she knows they’ll learn to slide inside,
to fit neatly between arriving and departing.
But her, she drifts from moment
.........................................to moment
unable to curl her toes around the present, to get a grip
on each passing minute, staring at a clock
that refuses to mark time.
.........She counts the others
........................................but they come and go randomly,
some barely grazing the seat before disappearing
through that blue door. She asks a stranger the time
without hearing his reply,
.................has forgotten when
.................she arrived, sits and listens
.........for her name to be called, sits and listens
for something to hold on to.

Original
She’d watched others in queues
at bus stops, supermarkets, at the chip shop.
Along the chairs across the room. Sitting still, patient
talking under their breath, a secret language
she’d never understand.
Even small children understand the edges of waiting,
she watches them draw in the dust, falling off chairs
hauled back into line by whispering parents. They wriggle
against it now, but she knows they’ll learn to slide between
those rigid walls, fitting neatly between arriving and departing.
But her, she drifts from moment to moment
unable to curl her toes around the present, to get a grip
on each passing minute, staring at a clock
that refuses to mark time, a random swirling of hands
and numbers.
She counts the others, but they come and go randomly
some barely warming the seat before disappearing
through that blue door. She asks a stranger the time.
Has forgotten when she arrived. Sits and listens
for her name to be called, to give her
something to hold on to.

edited just to change the tenses pointed out by Jasper :)
Last edited by Sharra on Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
It is at the edge of the
petal that love waits
Jasper
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:49 am

Well, whether I'm right or wrong about the theme of this, S, I don't really care!
For me, she's a barren spinster milling through a life full of regrets ... she watched them drawing in the dust :cry:
And that finale.... combined with her disinterest in clocks (the biological one moreso I'd say)... OH MY MY MY!

Nit's:

She’d watched others in queues
at bus stops, supermarkets, at the chip shop.

<(something seems amiss here.... I found I needed to take a leap of faith (sts) to follow it rather than being led by your plot just here... maybe it's just the punctuation?>
Along the chairs across the room. Sitting still, patient
talking under their breath, a secret language
she’d never understand.



Your mix of past and present tenses through-out the piece, and some of line breaks (ie L3), are confuddling imo!

All in all it's a lovely write I'd like to see polished to a T.

J
Last edited by Jasper on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sharra
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:52 am

Jasper - you're totally right about some of the tenses, thats the trouble of trying to write without waking up properly :)
I've just edited them now, hope I caught them all.
Sharra
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Jasper
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:12 am

Hmmmm... more coffee needed - I reckon!
May I offer you an edit of this, pretty please, S.... tis just far too good for the likes of me to resist!

J
Sharra
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:05 pm

Hi Jasper
Thanks for your interest in this, I'd like to see any suggestions you have :)
Sharra
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Jasper
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Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:12 pm

She’d watch others queue
in shelters, malls, the chip/fish shops.... I think chip is too begrudging in relation to this poor soul!
Patient lines across the room, spoke
beneath their breath in a language
she'd never enthrall.

I think you could compact this a bit (but not too much mind), sharpen it with puns she obviously aches/d for, and remove most of those she and hers.

I really like this btw... but don't wish offend other authors critters with my jibber jabber.
However, I truly think if you polish this piece just right, it's IBPC nom worthy!

Like further imagine, if you will, if your tense and language here led the reader to first assume she has passed away (childlessly) *BAWL*. But in actual fact she's awaiting a consultation about Embryo Transplants in the finale ... Hot topic that!

Tis a damn fine concept as is though... so ignore me, K!


J
Sharra
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:56 am

New version up.
Jasper -Thanks for your suggestions - actually I went in a different direction, but it was your comments that made me think a lot more about this, so they were appreciated :)
Sharra
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mesmie
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:07 am

Shara

very very good. Crit is not my strong point but I always try to look for some empathy inside, yours is jam-packed full..loved it!

cheers :)
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:56 am

I've been reading and re-reading the original trying to make my mind up and then there appeared a whole new version. I like what you have done with this. The internal rhymes and line breaks, the whole flow of this piece is great.

The last 4 lines threw me a little, I think it is the line starting with 'has' my brain seems to want a person there to link to the first time I read it as 'he's' then had to back track, there after I want to add 'she' before it. Other than that a very good rewrite.
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:20 pm

Quick thing before I get into the bones and gore of the poem: the revision is very well judged. The beginning flies off of the page/screen now.

You lose me a little in what you mean though. 'Even small children...' implies they are the consummate waiters, or at least know how to do it, and yet a few lines later we're told "she knows they’ll learn to slide inside, to fit neatly between arriving and departing." which implies that they don't understand waiting. I'm all for paradox, but I think this reads more like confusion.

Anyway, I think this is one of your better poems, but I think also that it loses some of its impact as it progresses. The poem seems to be attempting to get back to that original and sublime image of being between arrival and departure (a wonderful notion of stasis), but each iteration of the image (a clock that refuses to mark time; not hearing his reply; has forgotten when she arrived) gets progressively common and a tad bland for me to be honest. it's like the poet is in the woman's position, desperate to find another metaphor of such dense authority as in the original one. For that one reason I think this needs a little more time in the oven. I think you need to recapture that sense of in-betweeness which you get so succinctly in the opening and in the toes curling around the present. In other words, I think you need to do more of this abstract metaphorising (piss knows if that's a word, but I'm in a library mood). I think you've taken the notion of showing rather than telling too literally here, and a result of that is that the common day imagery feels a little, well, bland in comparison to the opening.

With the right amount of gestation this could be excellent.

Dave

EDIT. Hmm, coffee makes me sound authoritative. Sorry...
Jasper
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:53 pm

Edited
Even small children understand waiting.
They draw in the dust, giggle, whine, fall off chairs,
pulled back into line by whispering parents. They wriggle
against it now, but she knows they’ll learn to slide inside,
to fit neatly between arriving and departing.
more spacing between S1 and 2 ... reason versus rationale (please)
But(<Yet) her, she drifts from (in) moment(s)
.........................................to moment
unable to curl her toes around the present, to get a grip
on each passing minute, staring at a clock
that refuses to mark time.
.........She counts the others
........................................but they come and go randomly,
some barely grazing the seat before disappearing
through that blue door. She asks a stranger the time
without hearing his reply,
.................has forgotten when
.................she arrived, sits and listens
.........for her name to be called, sits and listens
for something to hold on to.



YEAYYYYYYY.... you rock, S.

You could sharpen this even more by not resisting that lovely feminine voice and texture I note in you works and comments. Like using yet rather than but .... less sonic stress for flow ...keep that that though, you hear as it turns the piece into the final slap in the face so very nicely.

She asks strangers for time, without reply
I'd drop The from the title also.

I'll await your final trim and Nom it if that's ok with you.

clever you!

J
David
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:27 pm

Interesting formatting, Sharra. Clever, but I'm not sure it contributes much. Still, like the poem. You've had good comments already, and there's nothing I'd like to add.

Cheers

David
Sharra
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Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:50 pm

Thanks for the comments guys :)
Mesmie, glad you liked it.
Ben and Jasper - some good points there for me to think about.
Dave - you're right - a bit of time to abstract metaphorise would probably improve this!
David - the form came about because I didn't want it as one long block (a personal preference thing) and yet, because of the content, I didn't want it broken into stanzas, I felt it needed to feel unconstructed.
Sharra
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Jasper
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:37 am

Yeah, but you're deconstructing this woman... just one break would emphasize it better and wouldn't kill it or you :shock: Mind I agree with D on the new format adding little :shock: :shock:

The thematic convolutions of this woman's condition(s) is mesmerizing. The... shelters, Malls and chip shops is sadly missed by me.... but that's progress - eh?

Her age, her social stature and structure (moreso vis the shelters ...), her past, her life expectancy, her reason at the clinic for medication/diagnosis or fertility enhancement, and much more, are wonderfully interwoven into the things she needs to hold onto!

Polish it with much care

J

Can't get Beautiful Estranger(s) out of my head while reading it... just the words/caption, not the Madonna song btw. But then again if she's childless, she could be a old virgin awaiting immaculate conception too *burp*
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:02 pm

But her, she drifts from moment
.........................................to moment
But how can that not contribute. The whole act of moving your eyes down a line, then along to the start of the new line slows the reader down, gives a pause. Since this matches the drifting it is form fitting the words and adds powerfully to the reading, at least it did for me. :D
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:09 pm

Hi Sharra,

Think I like the new layout - it has more structure than the old one, which works well, and yet still flows. And I think you've done well getting down to the meat of the thing.

She counts the others
........................................but they come and go randomly,

this bit felt a bit less strong to me.

Nice work.

Ros
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Elphin
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Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:07 pm

Sharra

This poem makes me feel edgy - in fact I feel as if I am waiting for some news, is it good or will it be bad? I think that means its effective - the words do that but I disagree with David, I think the uneven structure is a big contributor.

Then I can see that Wab has a point about the children and about the layering on of the image - but maybe the contradiction and the layering is adding to the edginess. You see, you have me confused and I think that maybe thats what you want from this poem.

I wouldnt nit pick on any of your words or phrases, stylistically I do think it could do with a paring back. There are some redundant phrases and modifiers - for example does the door need to be blue? Taking a knife to it here is where I would end up

Even small children understand waiting;
they draw in the dust, giggle, fall off chairs,
and are pulled back into line. They wriggle
against it now, but she knows they’ll learn to slide
inside, to fit neatly between arriving and departing.
But, she drifts from moment
.........................................to moment
unable to curl her toes around the present, get a grip
on this minute, staring at a clock that refuses to mark
time.
.........She counts the others
........................................but they come and go,
some barely grazing the seat before disappearing
through the door. She asks a stranger the time
without hearing his reply,
.................has forgotten when
.................she arrived, sits and listens
.........for her name to be called,
for something to hold on to.

This is worth persevering with

elph
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:26 am

Thanks for the input everyone.
I think there's more votes for than against the layout - so thats good - it mean's you'll let me keep it :lol:

Elph - you've made a lot of good comments I shall take on board. You're right in that I do want this to feel a bit confusing - I'm trying to capture that feeling in a waiting room, when you're so worried about whats going to happen that you kind of lose touch with everything, the place and people around you, and you just feel stuck in limbo.

The door was blue to give it more reality as thats where she'll be going, thats where she is able to focus. (All NHS doors seem to be blue, have you noticed that? and it gave me a rhyme with through :) ) but maybe it isn;t necessary.

The comments I've had about this have really made me think hard about this one, I get a feeling it will take a while to get this spot on.
Sharra
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Jasper
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:09 am

There is no such thing as a complete poem, only works in progress!

like:

she arrived, sits and listens... arrived is past tense whereas sits and listens is present IMO.
she arrives, sits and listens... removing the comma here would give it a sonic urgency also (well, I think)

Excuse the pun, S, but kid gloves are well required here as I feel the theme and that KAPOW finale emotively interfere with a critters logical sensibilities!

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Sharra
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:19 am

There is no such thing as a complete poem, only works in progress! Very true Jasper.
But arrived is sposed to be past tense, she forgot when she arrived (arriving happened some time ago) and now she's sitting and listening.
Sharra
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Jasper
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:47 pm

Agreed,S. But then shouldn't sits be sat also?
Anyway, the sonic twist and emphasis (of S), along with the pun and contrast of arrives here is well worth the sacrifice/contortion of a little tense IMO.

J
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:32 pm

Sharra wrote:has forgotten when
.................she arrived, sits and listens
nah, arrives would make no sense.

Reading again, I like it even more than before. The only thing that struck me this time was 'draw in the dust' - I see her in a waiting room, and even the worst waiting rooms really shouldn't be that dusty! The dust removes the children to a generic waiting, rather than the same place, which I think is a pity.

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Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:14 pm

I might be a bit thick here, but I fail to see what is wrong with your tenses Sharra.
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Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:09 pm

Hi Sharra,

I think the revision is an improvement. The indents break the poem up and make it easier to swallow but don't seem artificial, 'to moment' for example. That works, feels necessary.

Wab has mentioned the first four lines. I'd argue that children don't really understand 'waiting' as it is understood by adults. In my experience and from memory kids turn most places into a playground and are oblivious to the psychology of waiting. Quiet, on the other hand is something they, if not understand, quickly assume an opposition to. Quiet and stillness are often the enemy of a child, waiting in this sense seems a more complex idea, possibly an adult projection.

They wriggle
against it now, but she knows they’ll learn to slide inside,
to fit neatly between arriving and departing.

I'm not sure I like the tone of these lines, there seems to be a slight bitterness to them and too much generality. You can't, by definition, 'know' what someone is going to learn, the fact that the narrator doesn't seem to 'fit' in this environment implies the possibility that others may not also.

The following line sees the narrator as quite apart from the rest of the world, a stance which doesn't feel completely justified. What is to say that everyone isn't just floating from moment to moment? Who is fixed in the present and how would you ever know?

Curling toes round the present doesn't really work for me, you then go on to say 'to get a grip'. I don't easily imagine gripping things with my toes, maybe that's just me.

The clock marking time I like. It works perfectly whichever way you look at it, marching on the spot or leaving an impression. Clever play on words that one.

The others coming and going 'randomly', again, feels too general. Flippant almost. Their movements may seem random on the surface of things but in reality, surely not. 'Grazing', though I like the idea, suggests to me leaving some kind of visible damage, which I don't imagine. Something that suggests pressure rather than abrasion might work better here. 'Disappearing' could also be better I think, it doesn't really spark the imagination.

I'm not sure I understand asking a stranger for the time when she's been staring at the clock anyway. A nervous thing? If so, I don't think it's been set up properly.

Something about the line 'has forgotten when' doesn't gel with me. It seems quite weak in comparison with the rest and I don't think it needs to be indented. I think it would actually work if you knocked 'when' down to the next line. 'Has forgotten' could stand alone and the indentation would work better.

Though I like the repetition of 'sits and listens', listening for something to hold on to doesn't really make sense. I know what you mean but it doesn't quite ring true.

I hope this doesn't seem too harsh, I actually like this piece though it might not appear that way! You've got something good to work with; the structure's innovative and inviting and you seem pretty accomplished with the mechanics of writing. It's really beacause of that I've been so critical. I think you could turn this piece from something enjoyable, which it clearly is, to something more universal. If you were to establish some kind of link or common ground between the narrator and the 'others' I think it would be beneficial. Give someone a face maybe, bring them into the piece rather than keeping them at arm's length. Just my opinion.

Thanks.
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