Untitled (suggestions?)

[bernard]

Lonely at home, still reeling
from the punch of shop windows
I took a curving path outwards
from the centre of town.

Sound bubbled and drained
through the colander streets.

A thin, pressed man
shook out a tired rug and threw
foreign words into the air,
................................barbed
forms ricocheting on walls
and settling in the blank space
between tongue and ear.

In crippled stalls
housing books and curiosity, I
felt worn under a lid of light,

a woman's eyes said I will
lend you thought, replace each
life where you find it.

[David]

Sound bubbled and drained
through the collander streets.

Like that, bernard. Colander, though?

I like the first half of S3 as well, but it got a bit abstract for me after that.

Similarly, I suppose, S4 is a beautiful image, but S5 goes (for me) a little sentimental / generic. Cherchez la femme, eh?

I have no title to suggest to you, but I enjoyed this. I hope that will do for now.

Cheers

David

[bernard]

Cheers David,

that'll do me. I hear what you're saying about S5, did S6 seem o.k? Anyway, I've posted a bit of a revision that hopefully heeds your advice.

Colander! D'uh.

[ray miller]

Hi, Bernard. I liked the thin, pressed man very much, though I'd have had him pin-striped, too.There are so many people I'd like to see punched-or worse-by a shop window, it's an arresting image, as we say. Sound bubbled and drained is also nice. On the down side I can't see why barbed is stuck there all on it's own and I can't see where you're going or gone with the last two verses.

[Jasper]

Lonely at home, still reeling
from the punch of shop windows
I took a curving path outwards
from the centre of town.

Sound bubbled and drained
through the colander streets.

A thin, pressed man
shook out a tired rug and threw
foreign words into the air,
................................barbed
forms ricocheting on walls
and settling in the blank space
between tongue and ear.

In crippled stalls
housing books and curiosity, I
felt worn under a lid of light,

a woman's eyes said I will
lend you thought, replace each
life where you find it.

Not sure, but this to me seems about regional/zone masks... How we seem to act in different/given environments and the fashionable impacts which seem to go with it/them. Sort of Plato's cave this!

Is the thin man a sign post btw... roadside of course?

of town in S1 is so not required if so. And S3 (tongue and ear) seems strange when the piece is more visual than sonic minded!


J

[Elphin]

Bernard

I like what you achieve here, particularly the sense of movement and journey and the quite vivid pictures drawn.

I'll be honest and say Im not exactly sure about what you are driving at - the title is going to be a very important signpost to that, I feel.

Im not so sure about the opening stanza, partic the first two lines. How about reversing it like this.

A thin, pressed man
shook out a tired rug and threw
foreign words into the air,
................................barbed
forms ricocheting on walls
and settling in the blank space
between tongue and ear.

In crippled stalls
housing books and curiosity, I
felt worn under a lid of light,

a woman's eyes said I will
lend you thought, replace each
life where you find it.

Sound bubbled and drained
through the colander streets.

I took a curving path outwards
from the centre of town.

does that deliver the same meaning.

Enjoyed the journey

elph

[bernard]

Hello all,

thanks for the comments. Jasper, I like the idea of dropping 'from town' so that'll be happening in the rework. Quite surprised that some people didn't get the ending, 'books' was the clue. I'm just looking round a bookstall, stealing thoughts! Each life is the life represented in print, that's how I think of good books; a life in ink.

Appreciate your comments and suggestions.

[Jasper]

Well, books are masks too, I reckon lol
Town's a throw off, B. And it goes to show how important it is to choose a good title... if and only if the author wishes to restrict the readers mind (set) to his/her intention - of course!

Title: Mimesis/Mimetic

J

[Sharra]

Bernard I felt this had a lot of great images in it, my favourite part being

barbed
forms ricocheting on walls
and settling in the blank space
between tongue and ear

For me though they all felt a bit unconnected and unlike others, I wasn’t a fan of the colander image – I think this could work though if the metaphor was extended around this.
I also didn’t get that you were browsing around a book stall. I wonder if you need some concrete detail in there to ground the more abstract images?

I think this is an interesting idea, which could work well if it was tightened and given some cohesion.
Sharra
x

[bernard]

Hi Sharra,

I wonder if you need some concrete detail in there to ground the more abstract images?

In crippled stalls
housing books and curiosity, I

Doesn't that count as concrete?

[Sharra]

Bernard, I guess technically it is concrete, but it didn't feel it to me
I don't think it really grounds the piece though. I think you could get away without more concrete bits if the metaphors were more cohesive.
Sharra
x

[bernard]

Hi Sharra,

I guess technically it is concrete, but it didn't feel it to me

Interesting statement though slightly paradoxical, I feel. I think the job of the critic is to, as far as possible, put his/her personal 'tastes' aside in order to step into the flow of a piece, try to learn where it's coming from and going and what's impeding it.

I've got problems with this poem but in order to fix them, I'm going to need someone to look at the thing objectively and address specifics. This is something I always try to do when looking at a piece of writing. I don't think it will benefit either of us to allude to vague generalities.

Thanks.

[Sharra]

Bernard
I think putting personal tastes aside is fair enough, what I cannot put aside is how a poem affects me emotionally, as for me that is what poetry is all about. And I can only tell you how I react to a poem as I believe there is no definitive right or wrong in poetry - it is subjective by nature. I also believe its politer and more emotionally intelligent for me to say I feel or I believe when stating my view as I fully accept others might not agree. I apologise profusely if this means my crit is full of vague generalities which are of no use to you. Please feel free to ignore them.

I found it hard to comment on specific words in your poem, as I said, for me it felt disjointed and although I found the concept interesting, with some great images, for me it wasn't working as a whole.

And actually, rereading the lines we are discussing, no I don't think they are 100% concrete, crippled stalls is not concrete, curiosity is not concrete. They don't touch one of the 5 senses. If you had said splintered wood stalls, books smelling of old feet - then that would be concrete.
Sharra

[Lovely]

Last stanza "replace each love where you'll find light?" I woud of loved really instead.

Thanks, you give me more hope to forgive. A more reason to live than the living dead.

DJL

[backinblack]

Hi, I don't visit this forum too often, when i do I'm always impressed by the quality.
I think this stands beside other works here.
Much enjoyed, thanks.

BinB.

[bernard]

Hello all,

I think the problem with your criticism is that you expect poetry to do a certain thing. Poetry doesn't have to be sensual, it doesn't have to be concrete. It all depends on the narrator's point of view.

[PhilipCFJohnson]

Hello all,

I think the problem with your criticism is that you expect poetry to do a certain thing. Poetry doesn't have to be sensual, it doesn't have to be concrete. It all depends on the narrator's point of view.

Hey Bernard!

What you say is true, but honest criticism helps as it enable you to asses how well you have managed to get that point of view across to the reader.

Anyway I also wanted to tell you that I thought this piece was very good.

The opening line was particularly effective. It painted the picture very nicely and was very film-noir. I liked it!

Some phrases were rather hazy, like:

"felt worn under a lid of light,"

But I suppose it's left open to ambiguity and I like that. I didn't have a problem materialising this poem in my head, so I think it was pretty successful. More to the point I enjoyed the read, and thought a lot of the imagery was very strong.

I have two formatting hangups though:

You've used the dreaded "............." but you did blank it out. I was wondering why. If it was to make it unseen you could have used spaces instead. It would look a lot neater and you wouldn't loose visual impact.

If not (and this is a point I have to make toward a lot of people on the board) when using ellipses only three are necessary! "..." is all you need. A lot of people go overboard and use about ten! However I'm guessing in your case it was to create the visual effect of having your line appear disjunct, which worked well, but maybe spaces would be more appropriate.


Secondly in the final stanza

a woman's eyes said I will
lend you thought, replace each
life where you find it.

There aren't any speech marks so it's hard to know how much is being said. Maybe insert some speech marks to make it a bit tidier.

Also perhaps "spoke" would be a more powerful choice over "said"

eg:

a woman's eyes spoke to me; "I will
lend you thought and replace each
life where you find it".

Maybe, but you're obviously not obliged to listen to me lol,

Other than those very small things, I thought this was some good work, and I really enjoyed reading it.

Look forward to reading more
All the best
Phil

[BenJohnson]

You've used the dreaded "............." but you did blank it out. I was wondering why. If it was to make it unseen you could have used spaces instead. It would look a lot neater and you wouldn't loose visual impact.

Actually he couldn't, due to the way html works, the hidden .... trick is the easiest way to format the poem.

[PhilipCFJohnson]

Aww that really sucks.

[bernard]

Hi Philip,

Thanks for the useful suggestions. I agree with you about that 'lid of light' thing, it was rushed and yes, I think speech marks would set it off better.

Appreciate you spending some time with this Phil.

[BenJohnson]

You have certainly prompted a lot of thought with your offerings.

Lonely at home, still reeling
from the punch of shop windows
I took a curving path outwards
from the centre of town.

The 'punch of shop windows' always felt right to me, but I couldn't quite get the meaning of it. Finally I think the penny has dropped, it's that feeling I get in town which is why I try to avoid it

Sound bubbled and drained
through the colander streets.

Similarly 'colander streets' feels slighty strange to me, it is probably the strong association of colanders and kitchens, suddenly a section of the kitchen has been brought into the street. If I really relax and let it flow then I can kind of accept it.

A thin, pressed man
shook out a tired rug and threw
foreign words into the air,
................................barbed
forms ricocheting on walls
and settling in the blank space
between tongue and ear.

This was easily my favourite stanza, no gripes with this one just right.

In crippled stalls
housing books and curiosity, I
felt worn under a lid of light,

And here I really began to struggle, crippled didn't really add anything, why are the stalls crippled? I get an image of a man with a leg missing, but a stall with a leg missing would be unusable, so crippled doesn't work for me, it doesn't give me anything to hold onto, to visualise the stall or tell me anything more than vaguely that something is wrong with the stall. 'Housing books and curiosity' gave me a pause, but that does give me an image of stalls heaped with books and knick-knacks, full of interest. "felt worn under a lid of light" I couldn't fathom out at all, was it you felt worn out, or worn as in a coat, what was the the lid of light? I have struggled here for a few days and no answers have arisen.

a woman's eyes said I will
lend you thought, replace each
life where you find it.

I liked the sound of this, but the meaning was vague. You have explained it and the explanation makes sense. I think Phil's suggestion of speech marks might clarify this.

I may sound like I am being picky, but I haven't just skimmed this once and made a snap judgement, (in fact I don't think most people here do.) but I have come back to this since it was posted several times a day.

I think this is good, for me personally it would be a better if I could understand some of the images a little more clearly.

In one of your posts earlier you said this was about 'stealing thoughts', I didn't get that from first reading maybe that would work as a title to sign post the reader?