Quest

[Helen Bywater]

Perhaps a brief introduction is appropriate here. This is a companion piece to "Amnesia". It was written soon after it, and explores the same themes of yin and yang, but from a different viewpoint. I've had to put a line where there should be a space, because the software wouldn't let me indent it.


Quest

Exquisite on her skin the thin silk clinging
to delicious fullness as her body moved.
Giving pre-arranged signals to strangers,
offering guided tours to inquisitive eyes
for the summer season,
it breathed an invitation for him alone.

And he would have had her
before she could say
yes or no, but her eyes
whispered the password,
and he smiled,
thinking of her breasts
and belly, her thighs...

her love nest.


He would find himself exploring
overgrown valleys, where sticky tendrils
half concealed cave mouths,
and subterranean streams dribbled
over slippery mosses,
her lips parted,
her eyes closed,
flushed

_______the ground gave way
to a yawning hellmouth,
plunging him headlong
into a pit of writhing serpents,
and jolted him awake.


From the first stirrings
in the glimmering darkness
of the womb, they were one.
Now, a delicate operation
was necessary to separate them,
so they could join
and be free.

He made a vow
to penetrate the mystery
of the inner sanctum,
the Holy of holies,
and make her squeal.

[Suzanne]

Helen,

The last line made me laugh. Enjoyed it.

I am not sure how to comment on this, let's hope some more experienced writers will rely for you.
Your writing has me interested hearing about how this is received.

I couldn't write this if I tried for days.
My favorite verse was the first one.

Suzanne

[ray miller]

Well, it's an interesting poem, for sure.Is it some kind of metaphor of married life? I jest, honest.

I think the first line reads a bit clumsy and maybe should start with "thin silk clinging.."? I don't understand in what sense her invitation is for him alone.

I sort of tripped up at "dribbled", which kind of broke the spell for me. I don't like the word, it's a Football word not a sex word.But "mosses", not just one but several. Good for you. One really can't get enough of it.

The penultimate stanza had me thinking of vasectomy but I'm sure that's not what you intended. I loved parts of this, I just wish I "got it" better.

[Lovely]

Yet more a deeper wow.


I guess you can take a write anywhere--- you are gifted.


Love to know more about you......

This is cool.

Lx

[Helen Bywater]

Well, it's an interesting poem, for sure.Is it some kind of metaphor of married life? I jest, honest.

I think the first line reads a bit clumsy and maybe should start with "thin silk clinging.."? I don't understand in what sense her invitation is for him alone.

I sort of tripped up at "dribbled", which kind of broke the spell for me. I don't like the word, it's a Football word not a sex word.But "mosses", not just one but several. Good for you. One really can't get enough of it.

The penultimate stanza had me thinking of vasectomy but I'm sure that's not what you intended. I loved parts of this, I just wish I "got it" better.

Thanks for your comments, Ray. I'll think about that first line.

"It breathed an invitation for him alone" is about the way she smells. She might smell equally wonderful to any number of men - "for him alone" is about his perception of it. Have you ever experienced that, when you encounter someone who smells absolutely right - it could be on a tube train, someone you'll never meet again, but they smell so right that you wonder if the chemistry between you and them would be perfect? That's what I'm on about.

You're the first person who's said that about "dribble". A few men commented on this in a Facebook poetry group, but perhaps they weren't football fans. My reason for using that word, together with "cave mouths" and "her lips parted" is that it hints at the "yawning hellmouth" or vagina dentata that follows.

Possibly "operation" isn't the best way to put it. I suppose the castration scene must put you in mind of a vasectomy. I could call it a strategy or something. But it's about that feeling people sometimes have, when they're so sure something's meant to be that it's hard for them to conceive that the other person might have different needs from their own. That's why I said they were "one" and used the word "operation". Again, it's about his perception, but it may be rather confusing.

I think you said before that "I don't understand this" would be written on your grave, so I'd be interested to hear if other people find that stanza incomprehensible.

Glad you liked the mosses. It was the recent talk about moss and the fact that this was the sequel to Amnesia that made me decide to post this.

[Helen Bywater]

Suzanne and Lovely,

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Helen

[ray miller]

Castration scene!That's worse than vasectomy, much,much,worse. Perhaps this is a metaphor for married life after all.

It's interesting what you say about smell.On an unconscious level the smell of another person is thought to be very significant sexually. However, consciously, I think other senses take precedence. I can't say that I have ever thought to myself that this person smells great. Perhaps others do. I see your idea now, though.

Beware of men on Facebook poetry sites! They're probably dribbling and drooling the whole long day.

I see what you're saying now in the "castration scene".I don't think " a delicate operation" is the best way to describe the disentanglement, or whatever.If it's about the man's perception it isn't castration he'll be imagining. Frustration, possibly.

My initial impression on reading this was that it was about entanglement of lives and the ensuing games and stuff, but it is vague or subtle enough to keep one guessing, I suppose. I tried not to assume too much and now I probably have.

[Helen Bywater]

Castration scene!That's worse than vasectomy, much,much,worse. Perhaps this is a metaphor for married life after all.

It's interesting what you say about smell.On an unconscious level the smell of another person is thought to be very significant sexually. However, consciously, I think other senses take precedence. I can't say that I have ever thought to myself that this person smells great. Perhaps others do. I see your idea now, though.

Beware of men on Facebook poetry sites! They're probably dribbling and drooling the whole long day.

I see what you're saying now in the "castration scene".I don't think " a delicate operation" is the best way to describe the disentanglement, or whatever.If it's about the man's perception it isn't castration he'll be imagining. Frustration, possibly.

My initial impression on reading this was that it was about entanglement of lives and the ensuing games and stuff, but it is vague or subtle enough to keep one guessing, I suppose. I tried not to assume too much and now I probably have.

You didn't get what the writhing serpents were, then. Interesting what you say about a metaphor for married life, though. That's sort of the point. This is a guy who's still enjoying sowing his wild oats. That's why "valleys" and "cave-mouths" are plural, followed by "her lips" and "her eyes", when he realises he's fixated on her. "Her eyes whispered the password" could be interpreted as meaning "You're in there" but I also meant it to say that she's got under his skin - it's more than lust from then on. He's attracted to the idea of a close relationship with her, but also repelled, because of his fear of commitment and losing his freedom.

Re men on Facebook sites: well, they were men who write poetry, but there probably was a fair amount of dribbling and drooling. Poets aren't a separate species, after all. Perhaps they didn't notice the vagina dentata either. I was quite uncomfortable about this when I first posted it, and expected some negative comments from men, but there haven't been any as yet. I suppose they could be too scared!

I'll think about the penultimate stanza again.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[stuartryder]

Helen, I probably found this too erotically charged for my liking but I found the images a bit workaday. Catholic undertones of hellish sexual serpents, inner sanctums etc. Valleys, streams, holiest of holies also seem rather over-used. To be honest I would find it very hard...

... to create an erotic poem that was neither cliched nor hilariously clumsy. Perhaps this is a reflection of my sexual prowess, lol.

But I don't think this one made it out of the traps. I also didn't twig the vagina dentata references, so I think you would need to be clearer on that if that is going to mark-out this poem from others. There seems to be as much explanation of the poem in your subsequent posts, as there is in the poem itself, and I feel that a poem should stand on its own two feet.

Cheers

Stuart

Castration scene!That's worse than vasectomy, much,much,worse. Perhaps this is a metaphor for married life after all.

It's interesting what you say about smell.On an unconscious level the smell of another person is thought to be very significant sexually. However, consciously, I think other senses take precedence. I can't say that I have ever thought to myself that this person smells great. Perhaps others do. I see your idea now, though.

Beware of men on Facebook poetry sites! They're probably dribbling and drooling the whole long day.

I see what you're saying now in the "castration scene".I don't think " a delicate operation" is the best way to describe the disentanglement, or whatever.If it's about the man's perception it isn't castration he'll be imagining. Frustration, possibly.

My initial impression on reading this was that it was about entanglement of lives and the ensuing games and stuff, but it is vague or subtle enough to keep one guessing, I suppose. I tried not to assume too much and now I probably have.

You didn't get what the writhing serpents were, then. Interesting what you say about a metaphor for married life, though. That's sort of the point. This is a guy who's still enjoying sowing his wild oats. That's why "valleys" and "cave-mouths" are plural, followed by "her lips" and "her eyes", when he realises he's fixated on her. "Her eyes whispered the password" could be interpreted as meaning "You're in there" but I also meant it to say that she's got under his skin - it's more than lust from then on. He's attracted to the idea of a close relationship with her, but also repelled, because of his fear of commitment and losing his freedom.

Re men on Facebook sites: well, they were men who write poetry, but there probably was a fair amount of dribbling and drooling. Poets aren't a separate species, after all. Perhaps they didn't notice the vagina dentata either. I was quite uncomfortable about this when I first posted it, and expected some negative comments from men, but there haven't been any as yet. I suppose they could be too scared!

I'll think about the penultimate stanza again.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Helen Bywater]

Thanks, Stuart.

You're quite right - a poem should stand on its own. I wasn't sure from Suzanne end Lovely's remarks whether they'd got it or not, and Ray has said before that he often doesn't understand poems, so I explained in the hope that other people would say "I got that" or "I didn't get it either".

Funnily enough the first person who read this (my partner) noticed the castration scene. I hadn't even realised myself, as it was a found poem (all but the last two stanzas) which I'd just written down. I've tidied it up since, but I didn't change the hellmouth bit. It's probably that word "hell" that affects the associations for some people (Catholic guilt, as you say).

As for cliches, it sounds as if there are perhaps too many to have much hope of improving it, given that I don't think I've read enough erotic stuff to know what's cliche and what isn't. It was influenced by reading Henry Miller's "Sextus" around the time I wrote it. I think he writes erotic stuff well, so I must have picked the cliches up somewhere else (or stumbled on them independently).

[sandpiper]

Helen,

What hit me strongly with this was the last few words "made her squeal"
they seem completely out of context with the theme of the rest of this.
Could just be my take. The line about the password reminds me of The Mists of Avalon.

[Ros]

Interesting, Helen! Enjoyed reading this. I also didn't get the castration idea. I'd interpret 'yawning hellmouth' in a wider sense, that he'd got in too deep with a woman would would generally give him hell. I also didn't get the writhing serpents - what are they a metaphor for?

From the first stirrings
in the glimmering darkness
of the womb, they were one.
Now, a delicate operation
was necessary to separate them,
so they could join
and be free.

This to me sounds more like a mother and child, so I must be getting it completely wrong. Really confused about necessary to separate them so they could join.

A few other points:
S1 - I found the idea of her giving signals to all and sundry and then the invitation being for him only rather unconvincing - if he'd noticed the signals (I'm assuming we're seeing this from his pov), he'd surely think they were all for him alone.

and jolted him awake.

felt wrong - a bit as if you're saying 'it was all a dream'.

and make her squeal.

is a funny line but doesn't seem in keeping with the rest.

Don't know if that helps at all!

Ros

[Helen Bywater]

Interesting, Helen! Enjoyed reading this. I also didn't get the castration idea. I'd interpret 'yawning hellmouth' in a wider sense, that he'd got in too deep with a woman would would generally give him hell. I also didn't get the writhing serpents - what are they a metaphor for?

From the first stirrings
in the glimmering darkness
of the womb, they were one.
Now, a delicate operation
was necessary to separate them,
so they could join
and be free.

This to me sounds more like a mother and child, so I must be getting it completely wrong. Really confused about necessary to separate them so they could join.

A few other points:
S1 - I found the idea of her giving signals to all and sundry and then the invitation being for him only rather unconvincing - if he'd noticed the signals (I'm assuming we're seeing this from his pov), he'd surely think they were all for him alone.

and jolted him awake.

felt wrong - a bit as if you're saying 'it was all a dream'.

and make her squeal.

is a funny line but doesn't seem in keeping with the rest.

Don't know if that helps at all!

Ros

Thanks for your input, Ros.

Yes, it does help a lot.

The writhing serpents are a metaphor for tormented phalluses, severed, but not really severed, if you know what I mean. Ray joked about marriage and castration, and men often use that term without meaning it literally. I'm beginning to wonder if I'd have seen that interpretation myself if my partner hadn't reacted the way he did when he first read it.

The womb bit is confusing - I think it's too obscure. I was thinking about the way men supposedly often unconsciously look for a replacement for their mothers in adult relationships. The separating to join was about being aware of the fact that what she would want isn't necessarily what he would want - ultimately perhaps - but being sensitive to the difference between male and female sexuality in order to achieve the desired result. It's also too confusing, I think.

As for the signals, she wasn't giving them, "it" (her body) was. The "pre-arranged signals" were down to nature, the "guided tours" the work of whoever designed her dress. She also couldn't have been aware of the effect her smell would have on this guy. The only fully conscious, deliberate signal she gave was when her eyes met his.

The dream was a daydream from which he came back to reality.

I think I'm going to have to do some substantial re-working of this one, unless I abandon it. I should probably concentrate more on the new stuff, and reading more.

Thanks again for your help.

Thank you also to you, Sandpiper. The consensus seems to be that that last line doesn't fit.

Helen

[Danté]

Helen

This is not an easy piece to write and have it sound fresh due to elements of the subject. I personally think having skimmed through your responses to some of the crits already offered that the set of ideas you are working with are overpowered by some of the rather predictable descriptions in places. In some ways the wording seems to be chosen for effect which is fair enough but I think you could lift this with some less cliché approaches towards the images. It’s the kind of subject I enjoy reading and writing, and perhaps because I’d be harsh on myself if I used similar lines I am pointing it out here. It almost feels like one has taken a whole load of juicy words that one can easily find reading this kind of subject and scattered them over the underlying ideas like cake decorations. I bash my palm against my own for-head many times over drafts I have that lean towards this kind of subject because it’s damn well hard to come up with something that sounds fresh. It’s potentially a good piece but I don’t get the feeling of satisfaction reading it, that I might with less off the peg imagery. I don’t think I need to list specifics as you seem an experienced writer and I’m confident you can also see where this can be improved in respect of wording in the cold light of day.
The other thing is, the fact that I would not have picked up on some of your intended content if it were not for your explanations and I am not sure it should be quite as difficult to glean those meanings. Perhaps the bottom line is, this is the way to go with your wording and my personal yearning for a greater feel of originality is folly. In which case I’ll continue to refrain until I come up with something I’m happy with and continue to be disappointed when reading such subjects.

Kind regards

Danté

[Lovely]

Dante hello always love you ever always............

lxxxx

[Helen Bywater]

Helen

This is not an easy piece to write and have it sound fresh due to elements of the subject. I personally think having skimmed through your responses to some of the crits already offered that the set of ideas you are working with are overpowered by some of the rather predictable descriptions in places. In some ways the wording seems to be chosen for effect which is fair enough but I think you could lift this with some less cliché approaches towards the images. It’s the kind of subject I enjoy reading and writing, and perhaps because I’d be harsh on myself if I used similar lines I am pointing it out here. It almost feels like one has taken a whole load of juicy words that one can easily find reading this kind of subject and scattered them over the underlying ideas like cake decorations. I bash my palm against my own for-head many times over drafts I have that lean towards this kind of subject because it’s damn well hard to come up with something that sounds fresh. It’s potentially a good piece but I don’t get the feeling of satisfaction reading it, that I might with less off the peg imagery. I don’t think I need to list specifics as you seem an experienced writer and I’m confident you can also see where this can be improved in respect of wording in the cold light of day.
The other thing is, the fact that I would not have picked up on some of your intended content if it were not for your explanations and I am not sure it should be quite as difficult to glean those meanings. Perhaps the bottom line is, this is the way to go with your wording and my personal yearning for a greater feel of originality is folly. In which case I’ll continue to refrain until I come up with something I’m happy with and continue to be disappointed when reading such subjects.

Kind regards

Danté

Hi Danté,

Thank you for taking the time to explain in depth.

It's not entirely a question of my "intended content", except for the last 2 stanzas. The rest was a found poem originally, which I interpreted after I found it. It's hard to be objective about such things. I'm aware it's a subject where it's difficult to avoid clichés, but it's not a genre I've read much (because I realised a long time ago that most of it is so clichéd) and that probably doesn't help.

I'm not really very experienced when it comes to poetry. I wrote it intensively for about 3 years, some years ago, and all the poems I've posted so far come from that period. Since then I've started writing again, but I'm much more confident about writing prose, and have only recently gone back to poetry. Re-working my old poems has been a way of getting back into it. I'm working on some new ideas, too, but they're taking shape very slowly.

I think I'll have to distance myself from this again, and perhaps come back to it with fresh objectivity. On the subject of specifics, it surprised me that not one person has commented on the line "her love-nest". I thought it was the first thing everyone would point out - what a nauseatingly twee cliché it is. My reason for using it was very specific: because this guy is attracted to the idea of a cosy, intimate relationship, but also repelled by it. It also signifies his recognition of the difference between his sexuality and female sexuality. I hoped that giving it a line to itself for emphasis might have conveyed that. Do you think it does? Or, if I found something better to replace the other clichés, might that one work?

Thanks again,
Helen