North and South

[brianedwards]

North

Hopeful Spring's first colour bleeds from stems
and industry returns to trees, but not
to streets awash with dodgy benefits claims
and birds knocked up by lads in tracky tops.
Lowry's matchstalks once prowled these streets
in search of work, flat capped, dressed in rags
and chimney smoke, but romance around here
is deader than the puppies stuffed in bin bags.
Even when the nights are clear and fights
have been confined to bedsits and tap rooms
no-one sees the hills ablaze with light
and stars that offer sanctuary from the gloom.
Oh harness your legendary wind and rain.
Tear up these streets Manchester, start again.


South

The River Thames, as viewed from our plane,
lies as grey and lank as a dead mule's tail
wrapped around the streets of our past.
Through the filter of memory, faint glimmers
of the life we had in London still shimmer
like the afterglow of a camera's flash.
How we dodged the traffic across The Strand,
ran along the South Bank, hand in hand,
and dared to reach for strings of diamond lights.
Rain stabbed like angry kisses as we climbed
onto that ledge, both drunk on lust and wine,
the remnants of an empire in our sight,
till cruise boats full of tourists waved at us
and stole our capital with greedy cameras.





~

[PhilipCFJohnson]

I loved the second poem. It's full of nostalgia and lost joy, and it resonates well (with me anyways).

I'm slightly (supremely) adverse to the first though. I don't know how well that kind of stereotype will sit with other northerners but I read it with a sting.

Not that I live in a fairy tale world and think the north is perfect, but it sounds like you've constructed one around London (which I liked, a lot). I just think writing a poem about how scummy the North is a bit of an easy kill and not entirely justified.

Anyways, it's the way you feel, and it can't be changed so anything I say is entirely supplementary.

Like I said, I really loved the wording in the second poem.
"like the afterglow of a camera's flash"
was simply magical
and the final line just really rang out with bitter loss.

I feel the sentiment in this poem really strikes a chord with me.

[ray miller]

I'd have to agree with Philip as far as the sentiments on the North are concerned. You seem to be pronouncing from too great a height in both parts.I never really thought of Lowry's paintings as being romantic but this is perhaps what nostalgic yearnings can do! I didn't think your writing was anywhere near as good as it can be, Brian. Interesting to compare your treatment of stereotypes in this to Old Women Farming Rice.

[Ros]

I'm not sure of your point here, Brian. The second half is personal, and while not exactly praising London, has some pleasant memories to convey. I wasn't too sure about the last two lines here - the impression of the relationship is that it was lost anyway, whereas you seem to be saying the tourists had some effect on that.

The first half just seems to be an attack on the usual suspects, not even particularly northern (I'm sure London has its share of dodgy benefit claims, fights, dogs in bin bags), with no redeeming personal anecdotes. I liked dressed in chimney smoke. Why would the hills be ablaze with light at night?

Ros

[Wabznasm]

Your take on the Victorian industrial novel maybe? I haven't read 'North and South' yet though, so can't comment on any potential allusions.

But just to add to everyone and say that North just... well, doesn't really work I suppose. I don't think you can get away with these sort of politics, i.e. nature as good versus industry as bad. It's too poeticised, almost to the extent of being naive. There are a few urban, working class orientated poets I can think of (Ken Smith, Sean O'Brian, Tony Harrison, George Szirtes) who all write about the roughness of all of this poverty, but see more than that manichean divide you've got here.

A shame though, because I honestly think "Tear up these streets Manchester, start again." is one of the best lines of poetry I've read on this forum. I'd love to see you salvage this and use it somewhere else.

South reminds me almost uncannily of The Wasteland, for all of its memory jigging, personal anecdote, and the river Thames. I have to disagree somewhat with ray and say that there is a lot of very, very good writing in this though, the first 6 lines especially. And I especially like the process of remembering and forgetting as represented through the cameras -- the hints at consumerism are unobtrusive enough to escape censorship.

The view of London is a great deal more sophisticated than the one of Manchester in my eyes, for its hint at mulitculturalism, and mostly its belief in how our anecdotes come with the urban landscape we move in. We sort of populate through gossip.

Also, is there a metre in this? I like the rhyme scheme, and it seems you are going for an iambic pent, but there are a great deal of missing feet and syllables -- if you want I can point them out to you.

So basically, some great writing, but it doesn't really work as a message or comment. As others say, it's a bit stale. Sorry

Dave

[brianedwards]

Thanks for all the input.

Ee By Gum, I deliberately removed the I from the North section but I see now that was probably a mistake as it reads like some drab social commentary. Not supposed to be that way at all.
I am of the opinion that Manchester, and the North of England generally, is a shithole, an opinion I developed over 20 odd years of living there and one I am not about to shake soon, but I didn't want to write a piece of journalism on the issue. I see that the I needs to return, and it will in due course, hopefully counterbalancing the more 'personal' latter poem.

For the record, I don't especially view London as "better" than Manchester at all (especially not the Footy teams) but I do have fonder memories of living there. Hopefully that will be clearer too in the edit.

And it is definitely not supposed to be a poem with a "point" (wince) or "message" (shudder) or any kind of "comment" (minor stroke), but I do appreciate that the way it is currently wrought might give that impression. 'Tis a first draft you see. You guys have made me so comfortable here I have started posting without the usual time lapse. It's all your fault!

(By the way Dave, a mild flirtation with meter yes, but as with all my writing I much prefer my lines to scan with the cadence of speech rather than performance. Thanks for offering to "point [my 'errors'] out".)


Cheers all, a revision to follow soon.

B.

~

PS: Apologies if anyone read my earlier response --- silly Brian.

[Wabznasm]

I like what this could become, Brian. The idea of these as different voices about different places is a good one. Perhaps to get that across you could do more regions? Make a series of it? Or change the title maybe. But yeah, you need that irony back in 'North'; I had an inkling there should be some in there, but it didn't really come across.

And metre can follow natural speech rhythms, it just takes a shit load of effort! . -- NB I just haven't found them yet.

Dave

[brianedwards]

Cheers Dave. You've given me an idea for developing this further, with L.A. and Tokyo completing the 4 compass points . . . . thinking on it . . . . watch this space . . . .

B.

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