THRESHOLD
Late at night, I am the only light
blazing alone at opaque black
baited by unbreakable glass
and taunted, I await the dawn,
for time to enlarge the horizon
like a photograph taken yesterday
tinged with fickle yellow.
Faces flood my empty sea
I drown in moments that have died
and silhouettes in someone's mind
that only the ghosts of tommorrow can shape
when tortured thoughts will be born and bred
aborted small and talked.
SEAN KINSELLA
FOOTNOTE: This was written at a poetry seminar in Devon 1985 (ie when I was 22), and probably shows its age, despite some recent fine tuning.
Threshold
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Sean Kinsella
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Sean Kinsella
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CAM
Thanks for your comments
...as I feared. it hath aged
you should have seen the metrical version, I attempted to make out of it.
That is my last attempt at free verse folks OK?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
Thanks for your comments
...as I feared. it hath aged
you should have seen the metrical version, I attempted to make out of it.
That is my last attempt at free verse folks OK?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
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cameron
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It's not the free verse that's the problem, it's the content. I think you should try more free verse as I don't think your rhyming stuff really works either. To me, it's even more old fashioned and predictable. Writing free verse might help you to break through to something deeper and more surprising.
Sorry to be harsh.
C
Sorry to be harsh.
C
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Sean Kinsella
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CAM
No problem, we're here to be honest, but free verse (and I'm convinced of this), is something I just can't do as well as say, Arcadian Caleb or Leslie.
I'm inspired by the old-fashioned language and poets, even if modern poetry is not, so there you go.
We might have discussed archaic writing styles on another thread?. I'm doing a live reading/interview on a National Christian radio station/website this Wednesday (based on having sent them the manuscript we talked about recently), which is chock full of 'old-fashioned poetry' (some of which has been posted on here) so maybe someone out there thinks my rhyming stuff DOES work.
I won't give broadcast details on here...if anyone wants them you can PM/email me.
Cam, if that doesn't best endear me to the guidelines of 'Constructive Criticism', then it's my turn to be sorry if that sounds harsh.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
No problem, we're here to be honest, but free verse (and I'm convinced of this), is something I just can't do as well as say, Arcadian Caleb or Leslie.
I'm inspired by the old-fashioned language and poets, even if modern poetry is not, so there you go.
We might have discussed archaic writing styles on another thread?. I'm doing a live reading/interview on a National Christian radio station/website this Wednesday (based on having sent them the manuscript we talked about recently), which is chock full of 'old-fashioned poetry' (some of which has been posted on here) so maybe someone out there thinks my rhyming stuff DOES work.
I won't give broadcast details on here...if anyone wants them you can PM/email me.
Cam, if that doesn't best endear me to the guidelines of 'Constructive Criticism', then it's my turn to be sorry if that sounds harsh.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
Last edited by Sean Kinsella on Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ah so you agree with Frost -
"Writing free verse is like playing tennis with the net down."
I'd only add everyone's got their tastes. There's tastes on different artists. I, for example, never really got into Charles Dickens. Great writer - he's on many top ten lists worldwide. But beyond A Christmas Carol, he's still nearly always left me puzzled.
There's also difference of style. Another example from myself: Emeril Lagasse, as great as he might be at other things, couldn't prepare a dish with any detectable amount of celery that I would like.
- Caleb
"Writing free verse is like playing tennis with the net down."
I'd only add everyone's got their tastes. There's tastes on different artists. I, for example, never really got into Charles Dickens. Great writer - he's on many top ten lists worldwide. But beyond A Christmas Carol, he's still nearly always left me puzzled.
There's also difference of style. Another example from myself: Emeril Lagasse, as great as he might be at other things, couldn't prepare a dish with any detectable amount of celery that I would like.
- Caleb
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Sean Kinsella
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CALEB
I've been fighting this kind of battle since April of 2004.
I believe free verse and meter have equal standing and merit.
However that is NOT a popular or prevalent view in modern poetic circles.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
I've been fighting this kind of battle since April of 2004.
I believe free verse and meter have equal standing and merit.
However that is NOT a popular or prevalent view in modern poetic circles.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
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Bombadil
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Frost never played racquetball or squash. Great sports.
I'd be circumspect about deriving any kind of gratification from the Christian community at large, Sean. Typically these are the people who go in for all manner of sing-songy crap, providing of course, that is indeed sing-songy. Caleb and I actually had a chat about this yesterday: hymns are, for the most part, predictable and hence, boring. Occasionally you get a mover, but they are few and far between in my book. Also, a stat to keep in mind: There are two kinds of people who enter the ministry; those who are called by God, and those who have failed at everything else and want to be in a protected place where (they believe) no matter how badly they mess up, they will be loved and lauded.
Anywho. That said, I hold that both form-specific poems and free-verse have their respective and respected places. Both, I believe, are at their best when they sound like a normal conversation or story; i.e.: worded such as one would normally do.
Cheers,
Keith
I'd be circumspect about deriving any kind of gratification from the Christian community at large, Sean. Typically these are the people who go in for all manner of sing-songy crap, providing of course, that is indeed sing-songy. Caleb and I actually had a chat about this yesterday: hymns are, for the most part, predictable and hence, boring. Occasionally you get a mover, but they are few and far between in my book. Also, a stat to keep in mind: There are two kinds of people who enter the ministry; those who are called by God, and those who have failed at everything else and want to be in a protected place where (they believe) no matter how badly they mess up, they will be loved and lauded.
Anywho. That said, I hold that both form-specific poems and free-verse have their respective and respected places. Both, I believe, are at their best when they sound like a normal conversation or story; i.e.: worded such as one would normally do.
Cheers,
Keith
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Sean Kinsella
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KEITH
I've been a Christian for 11 years, it's not an overnight thing this, and I'm very grateful that they're giving me the chance to speak, discuss and read.
BTW, most of the moving hymns tend to talk in language long considered to be obsolescent don't they?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
I've been a Christian for 11 years, it's not an overnight thing this, and I'm very grateful that they're giving me the chance to speak, discuss and read.
BTW, most of the moving hymns tend to talk in language long considered to be obsolescent don't they?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
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Bombadil
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sorry...
good for you...and kudos if you wish them. so you know, I'm not shooting from the hip, here. I've been a Christian for something like 17 years. I can see how it would be flattering, but I still don't think them the best barometer for what is and is not good writing.
and no, my best hymn are the least antiquated of the bunch.
good for you...and kudos if you wish them. so you know, I'm not shooting from the hip, here. I've been a Christian for something like 17 years. I can see how it would be flattering, but I still don't think them the best barometer for what is and is not good writing.
and no, my best hymn are the least antiquated of the bunch.
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cameron
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Sean,
The fact that you've reading your stuff on National Christian Radio means absolutely nothing to me and again, like your vanity published poetry, is no indication of quality.
Furthemore, I did not set up this forum to encourage people to do impressions of Keats or Kipling.
And while we're being honest, I would appreciate it if you could stop using capital letters and bold text - please see the rules.
Best wishes
Cam
The fact that you've reading your stuff on National Christian Radio means absolutely nothing to me and again, like your vanity published poetry, is no indication of quality.
Furthemore, I did not set up this forum to encourage people to do impressions of Keats or Kipling.
And while we're being honest, I would appreciate it if you could stop using capital letters and bold text - please see the rules.
Best wishes
Cam
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Sean Kinsella
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CAMERON
So because I don't write in your kind of style I can't write on here at all?
Perhaps you need to check your 'Constructive Criticism' Guidelines?
I'm not particularly inspired by Kipling or Keats incidentally
You don't like me do you? (NB I have nothing against you) And you'd just as soon I went elsewhere wouldn't you? Are you moving this conversation around to banning me?
You don't like people being just as honest with you, as you are with them.
You were disparaging about my poetry, to which I responded in less than disparaging terms...I fail to see the problem.
You have also disparaged me regards Vanity Press (why mention that otherwise)...and if my appearance on Christian radio means nothing to you, then why mention it at all?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
So because I don't write in your kind of style I can't write on here at all?
Perhaps you need to check your 'Constructive Criticism' Guidelines?
I'm not particularly inspired by Kipling or Keats incidentally
You don't like me do you? (NB I have nothing against you) And you'd just as soon I went elsewhere wouldn't you? Are you moving this conversation around to banning me?
You don't like people being just as honest with you, as you are with them.
You were disparaging about my poetry, to which I responded in less than disparaging terms...I fail to see the problem.
You have also disparaged me regards Vanity Press (why mention that otherwise)...and if my appearance on Christian radio means nothing to you, then why mention it at all?
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
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Bombadil
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While I have no idea why I'm bothering...
Sean, you have to admit, placing the sentence about your reading in bold face does read like you're tooting your own horn...
We jump on anyone who does this, you're not being singled out, you're just at the top of the pile at the moment. But hey. If you feel like leaving, or don't get Cam's point, see ya.
Cheers.
Sean, you have to admit, placing the sentence about your reading in bold face does read like you're tooting your own horn...
We jump on anyone who does this, you're not being singled out, you're just at the top of the pile at the moment. But hey. If you feel like leaving, or don't get Cam's point, see ya.
Cheers.
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Sean Kinsella
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KEITH
If you don't feel the need to bother then don't...
but as you did...
I was spoken to disparagingly, and without due cause. I don't believe for one second Cameron would appreciate me dismissing the entire canon of his work in similar terms.
I didn't mention the radio until such time.
I understand where Cameron is coming from (trust me). I also believe the opposite applies (trust me).
I won't be leaving, but if you feel so inclined, then 'see ya'
Now if this poetry forum was not set up to impersonate ancient and apparently archaic poets, then neither was it set up to encourage this kind of pointless public (and less than edifying) dispute.
Anything else should be taken to PM/email.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
If you don't feel the need to bother then don't...
but as you did...
I was spoken to disparagingly, and without due cause. I don't believe for one second Cameron would appreciate me dismissing the entire canon of his work in similar terms.
I didn't mention the radio until such time.
I understand where Cameron is coming from (trust me). I also believe the opposite applies (trust me).
I won't be leaving, but if you feel so inclined, then 'see ya'
Now if this poetry forum was not set up to impersonate ancient and apparently archaic poets, then neither was it set up to encourage this kind of pointless public (and less than edifying) dispute.
Anything else should be taken to PM/email.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
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Bombadil
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PMs are far too personal, corporate shit is so much more fun...
Cam said nothing disparaging, at least no more than he would to anyone else who wasn't getting the point...
And the point is valid, I think.
And again, its not that you mentioned radio. Its that it showed up like this. In Internet speak this usually read as yelling or shouting. Very unfriendly.
Sorry to say it bubba, but you're being a touch oversensitive in my book.
Cheers,
Keith
Cam said nothing disparaging, at least no more than he would to anyone else who wasn't getting the point...
And the point is valid, I think.
And again, its not that you mentioned radio. Its that it showed up like this. In Internet speak this usually read as yelling or shouting. Very unfriendly.
Sorry to say it bubba, but you're being a touch oversensitive in my book.
Cheers,
Keith
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about the poem:
the content of the first half or so of the poem (up to "taken yesterday") speaks quite well to me, but i feel the line breaks make it sound awkward and stilted. it makes it read like a bunch of buzz words crushed together when instead I feel it is presenting a very nice image. but the fickle yellow line, and the ghosts of tomorrow, sort of make the mistake of the first half (disjointedness) become hard to swallow. i believe you've got a good poem here that, if you can stand it, should be tweaked some more. maybe try sort of spacing the ideas out a bit more, allowing for the poem to be more easily accessed by the reader, and try to revamp some cliche phrases. I dont feel that this poem is too abstract, just awkwardly delivered maybe.
btw admins, sorry about the bold, just thought it might be necessary to show the subject of this particular reply.
the content of the first half or so of the poem (up to "taken yesterday") speaks quite well to me, but i feel the line breaks make it sound awkward and stilted. it makes it read like a bunch of buzz words crushed together when instead I feel it is presenting a very nice image. but the fickle yellow line, and the ghosts of tomorrow, sort of make the mistake of the first half (disjointedness) become hard to swallow. i believe you've got a good poem here that, if you can stand it, should be tweaked some more. maybe try sort of spacing the ideas out a bit more, allowing for the poem to be more easily accessed by the reader, and try to revamp some cliche phrases. I dont feel that this poem is too abstract, just awkwardly delivered maybe.
btw admins, sorry about the bold, just thought it might be necessary to show the subject of this particular reply.
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Bombadil
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Maybe it's the motherfucker in me...or the nudist. But I think things that are started in public should stay public.
I have lost no honor, since I didn't stake any to begin with...
I did not mean to speak on Cam's behalf. I certainly consider him my friend and agree with him in this case, to be sure, but I did not mean to speak for him. For that I apologize both to you and he.
I do agree with you on one point, this has gotten childish.
Sean Kinsella wrote:KEITH
As promised, I have taken this to PM.
Oversensitive? No. My work was dismissed (in completion) as crap, which it isn't and accordingly his comments were not called for.
Incidentally...if Cameron's point was so valid, then how come you're doing all his arguing for him? He got as good as he gave, and that's what neither you (nor he) care for eh?
are you being a touch oversensitive baby? Or just prolonging an argument for the sake of lost honour/ points scoring?
I won't be going anywhere (you best believe that jack), and you're going to have to accomodate me, as much as I'll have to accomodate you. That's what democracy and poetry forums are for.
Now have the last word if you will, this has got as childish as I'm prepared to permit.
BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
I have lost no honor, since I didn't stake any to begin with...
I did not mean to speak on Cam's behalf. I certainly consider him my friend and agree with him in this case, to be sure, but I did not mean to speak for him. For that I apologize both to you and he.
I do agree with you on one point, this has gotten childish.