Take a cup of water

[Ros]

Take a cup of water


A cup of water: look closely -
but it’s too small, you won’t see -
water’s made of molecules,
each of three atoms - two hydrogen, one oxygen
linked together. How small, you ask?


Wander down
to the sea’s edge where the air
is never still. Tip your cup
of water into that swirling surf.

Wait, say,
several thousand years,
while all the water in the oceans
dances and swirls, swishes and mixes.

Dip your cup
into that sea, and fill it to the top.
Some of that water, brimming
and sloshing in your hands,

is the same water
you tossed there years before.
There are more molecules of water
in your cup than there are
cups of water in the seas.

~~~
This is aimed at children aged 7-11, so please judge it in that light.

[azathoth]

Is it necessary to italicize the first stanza? I see that it presents an introduction to the hypothetical poem world, but, since you bring the cup with you through the later stanzas, there does not appear to be a meaningful distinction between the italicized and non-.
Well written, I would say, as it captures my attention and captivates my imagination. Quite a compelling lesson for any age.
However, I have to ask, how did you choose the line breaks? If there is a reason, some complex meter, an obvious rhyme, I don't see it. It seems in places to not heighten, or even hamper in an at least interesting way, the flow or emphasis of the words.

And, considering that, does this really need to be a poem?

[ray miller]

My daughter, aged 9, pointed out, reasonably enough, that in several thousand years we'll all be dead.She also wonders how you could be sure that you were gathering some of the same water you'd originally poured in.
I liked "Wander down to the sea's edge where the air is never still" but the remainder was way over my head.

[Arian]

Nicely done, Ros. Some people say I have a mental age of about 9, so I’m a good judge.
Shouldn’t it be “..they’re too small” in L2? And did you mean to repeat swirl?

Pleasant piece.
Peter

how you could be sure that you were gathering some of the same water you'd originally poured in.

Ah, the wonders of science, Ray! Specifically, on this occasion, the statistics of molecular diffusion. The sea thing is right. An even more impressive truth, for a similar reason, is the fact that every time you take a breath, the air contains some of the actual molecules breathed by Isaac Newton!

Cheers
peter

[Ros]

Azathoth, thanks, I have fiddled quite a lot with the line breaks.

Ray, you're missing the point - there are so many more molecules in a cup of water than there are cups of water in the sea that the chances are you will get some of the original ones. So it is claimed, anyway. It's a matter of probability, apparently.

[Ros]

Thanks, Peter. Too many swirls, eh?
The concept is rather tricky to believe, and even harder to put in a poem. But there we are.

[ray miller]

It's my daughter questioning your logical consistency, not me.But "the chances are you will get some of the original ones" seems to be a bit of a retreat from your initial certainty. I think I'll give her a gold star ...when she's several thousand years old. And if she has missed the point then you must have accepted that the point does exist. I'll send you my bill.

[Ros]

This is good, Ray. Poems should get children questioning, so if I can thoroughly confuse them I'll consider it a job well done. Bill? I'll knock it off the money you owe me.

[Arian]

a bit of a retreat from your initial certainty.

Not really, Ray. Ros is right that it's an odds-on thing, not a certainty, but the odds are so overwhelmingly in favour that it's a certaintly in practical terms. See my original comment on stats of diffusion. If you had a horse with these odds, you could put all the money in the world on it, and win a fraction of a penny. Even this government wouldn't be interested in the tax on your winnings!

[twoleftfeet]

This is good, Ray. Poems should get children questioning, so if I can thoroughly confuse them I'll consider it a job well done. Bill? I'll knock it off the money you owe me.

Hi Ros,
Stimulate, yes; Confuse no. Ray has a point - even the concept of a thousand years is beyond most 7 year-olds, let alone
the size of an atom or the ratio of cups of water in the sea : water molecules per cup.
How many years do you need to get a good brew going?
They may get something like "leave the cup to your great great great great great grandchildren."

I won't criticise the language you've used, though - IMHO it's on the money.

Very interesting
Geoff

[Tamara Beryl Latham]

Wait, say,
several thousand years,
while all the water in the oceans
dances and swirls, swishes and mixes.

Dip your cup
into that sea, and fill it to the top.
Some of that water, brimming
and sloshing in your hands,

is the same water
you tossed there years before.

***It's a great poem, and a wonderful way to introduce ocean water to elementary, and middle, school-aged children.

Yes, you may get some of the original water; however, you may want to reinforce the fact that today's oceans are becoming increasingly contaminated with Ammonium Perchlorate (rocket fuel propellant). The solubility of Ammonium Perchlorate in water is about 21 grams at 20 degrees Celsius, and 57 grams at 100 degrees Celsius. So, the cup of water one dipped up from the ocean several thousand years ago, when there was no water contamination, will not be the same as the cup of water one dips up today.

Best,

Tamara

[brianedwards]

I'm with young Miss Miller on this Ros. You completely lost me at "Wait, say, several thousand years". Of course we will be dead, the cup long since smashed and the seas, perhaps, unrecognisable! I understand and appreciate the point you are making (and wow! what a wonderful concept to teach a child!) but wonder if you mightn't find a more logical way in which to present it . . ?

Another wee bump here:

Some of that water, brimming
and sloshing in your hands,

Firstly "in your hands" confuses as the water is in the cup (isn't it? picky I know, but it gave me pause) and secondly, "brimming and sloshing" is a little obvious maybe, a little tired. I know it's for children but that doesn't mean the language can't be fresh and challenging.

Other than that, pretty well done overall. I agree that the tone of voice is generally spot on.

B.

~

[Ros]

Thanks for all your comments, very useful.

I'm going to have another go at the bit in italics as I don't think it fits too well. I don't think most kids would have any problem with thousands of years - and surely in a poem you can do anything? That's rather the point, isn't it?

[twoleftfeet]

Thanks for all your comments, very useful.

I'm going to have another go at the bit in italics as I don't think it fits too well. I don't think most kids would have any problem with thousands of years - and surely in a poem you can do anything? That's rather the point, isn't it?

Ros,
It may well work for a number of 11 year olds but
what is suitable for an 11 year old is not suitable for a 7 year old. Talk to some early years teachers if you don't believe me.

Geoff

[Ros]

Thanks for all your comments, very useful.

I'm going to have another go at the bit in italics as I don't think it fits too well. I don't think most kids would have any problem with thousands of years - and surely in a poem you can do anything? That's rather the point, isn't it?

Ros,
It may well work for a number of 11 year olds but
what is suitable for an 11 year old is not suitable for a 7 year old. Talk to some early years teachers if you don't believe me.

Geoff

I'm sure that's right. This'll just have to be one for the 11 year olds!

[Arian]

...you may want to reinforce the fact that today's oceans are becoming increasingly contaminated with Ammonium Perchlorate (rocket fuel propellant). The solubility of Ammonium Perchlorate in water is about 21 grams at 20 degrees Celsius, and 57 grams at 100 degrees Celsius. So, the cup of water one dipped up from the ocean several thousand years ago, when there was no water contamination, will not be the same as the cup of water one dips up today.

I can't wait to see you try and get that into your piece, Ros! Don't forget to emphasise the solubility gradient with temperature.

[GONE AWAY]

I like it, and I am sure kids will definitely understand it.

"A cup of water: look closely -
but it’s too small, you won’t see -
water’s made of molecules,
each of three atoms - two hydrogen, one oxygen
linked together. How small, you ask?"

And the way you have italiced the first stanza makes you read it with a different eye, great.
Thankyou.
Ian.

[Ros]

...you may want to reinforce the fact that today's oceans are becoming increasingly contaminated with Ammonium Perchlorate (rocket fuel propellant). The solubility of Ammonium Perchlorate in water is about 21 grams at 20 degrees Celsius, and 57 grams at 100 degrees Celsius. So, the cup of water one dipped up from the ocean several thousand years ago, when there was no water contamination, will not be the same as the cup of water one dips up today.

I can't wait to see you try and get that into your piece, Ros! Don't forget to emphasise the solubility gradient with temperature.

I was thinking more one idea at a time, actually. The idea for the poems is more fundamental science, rather than the eco/green route. I thought that plastic contamination was a more major problem?

Ros

[Ros]

Thanks, Ian. You like the italics? I wasn't sure about that.

[Sulpicia]

I'll try it on my nearly-7-yr old tomorrow and see what he thinks.
I like it, in any case! But I agree that the italics are not sufficiently different to need to be marked out.
Lucid, refreshing: rather like its subject.
Helen

[brianedwards]

Thanks for all your comments, very useful.

I'm going to have another go at the bit in italics as I don't think it fits too well. I don't think most kids would have any problem with thousands of years - and surely in a poem you can do anything? That's rather the point, isn't it?

Err, is it?

The idea of leaping a thousand years is fine, sure, and of course it is important to stir the imagination when writing for children. The problem is not with the conceit, but with how it's written: the set-up is simply insufficient to make that leap smoothly.

B.

[Tamara Beryl Latham]

Arian wrote:

Tamara Beryl Latham wrote:...you may want to reinforce the fact that today's oceans are becoming increasingly contaminated with Ammonium Perchlorate (rocket fuel propellant). The solubility of Ammonium Perchlorate in water is about 21 grams at 20 degrees Celsius, and 57 grams at 100 degrees Celsius. So, the cup of water one dipped up from the ocean several thousand years ago, when there was no water contamination, will not be the same as the cup of water one dips up today.

I can't wait to see you try and get that into your piece, Ros! Don't forget to emphasise the solubility gradient with temperature.



I was thinking more one idea at a time, actually. The idea for the poems is more fundamental science, rather than the eco/green route. I thought that plastic contamination was a more major problem?

Ros

***Ros, you guys are really funny. I meant my comments as an aside, and not to be included in your poem. After you read the poem to the children, then tell them about contaminating the water with plastics, etc.

Although plastics is now the big problem in the oceans, with respect to fish, and even birds, they are now starting to find this rocket fuel propellant (Ammonium Perchlorate) in mother's milk. So, this is the new danger for babies, as it can inhibit iodine uptake in the body.

Perchlorate (rocket fuel chemical) in Breastmilk
One of the perchlorate salts, ammonium perchlorate, is used as an oxidizer to help solid rocket ... High levels of perchlorate found in U.S. mothers' milk. ...
www.kellymom.com › ... › Chemical Exposure - Cached - Similar

Actually your poem made me think of something I had in my Geology class years ago, with respect to convergence and divergence zones. People would throw contaminated solids into a divergence zone, and these would come up hundreds or thousands of years later in convergence zones. So, no one was the wiser, with respect to this type of contamination, until it was far too late to bring the perpetrators to justice.

Best,

Tamara

[stuartryder]

Hi Ros, I had a decent enough education but I can't remember any 11 year olds in our English class going in for this sort of thing. There was one kid who entered poetry comps with free verse and actually won one, but that was definitely an exception.

Am I being patronising to kids if I suggest that at that age most of them would prefer something with a bit of bounce and rhyme?

Sorry but it seems too flat for kids and too limited for grown-ups, at the moment.

Cheers

Stuart

[Ros]

Hi Ros, I had a decent enough education but I can't remember any 11 year olds in our English class going in for this sort of thing. There was one kid who entered poetry comps with free verse and actually won one, but that was definitely an exception.

Am I being patronising to kids if I suggest that at that age most of them would prefer something with a bit of bounce and rhyme?

Sorry but it seems too flat for kids and too limited for grown-ups, at the moment.

Cheers

Stuart

It's a good point, Stuart. If you look at the books of poetry written for children many of them are all bounce and underpants, snot and silliness, and the teachers I know despair of their dumbing down. On the other hand, http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -21330656/

[Lovely]

S1 is profound.

I did know you you can right on such heavy odes.

Ross, to understand this, you need a deep research here which is Well worth you.

You speak about water H20 you need to advance with this you have that feel but
I fear you may stagnate in your self. The peom is deep and means heaps