Kirlian (Revised)

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twoleftfeet
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 pm

Tamara Beryl Latham wrote:Geoff,

I liked the pace and much of the alliteration. The language is novel, and expressive, but the literal image did not work for me in the following lines:
even though she hacked off his head
with relish,

The wardrobe shudders guiltily;
It is not feasible to hack off someone's head with relish. So, I would use a word other than "hack," if you choose to use relish.
Although a wardrobe may vibrate (shudder), it is not possible for an inanimate object to have feelings of guilt. You may want to change some of the verbiage.
Thanks for reading the poem, Tamara.
I take your point about the wardrobe's guilty shudder, but I think you are being harsh: the fact that a verb describing
movement can be used with an inanimate object is inviting personification. After all, the wardrobe door has just struck her!
Verbiage?? :shock:

As for "with relish" it is a cartoon-like description. Maybe there is the gulf of an (almost) shared language between us :
over here, to do something "with relish" means to do it with zest, or gleefully.
The poem is meant to be a dark comedy, not an episode of "Dexter"
She is wallowing in "red", which is suggestive of blood , I accept, but is really a cocktail of wine and an angry red aura.
I've never seen a waste-bin big enough to hold a head, but all she did was cut his head from a photo and burn that :)

Cheers
Geoff
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twoleftfeet
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:23 pm

Thanks, Rush
I've never been a poser myself, but that's only because I haven't got anything to pose..
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twoleftfeet
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Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:28 pm

Ray,
Has my poet's licence been revoked due to incomplete documentation, or are you talking about Elf'nSafety prosecuting
me for not taking adequate safeguards over the unfortunate wardrobe incident?
Or have I exceeded my five a day quota (of bad puns)?
Cam will have to start selling insurance at this rate, or the site will be closed down!
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twoleftfeet
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:34 pm

I've re-worked the poem in an attempt to make it less obscure (and less alliterative :) )

TLF
ray miller
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:34 am

Well, I preferred the original 1st and 5th verses, I'm afraid. Bring back alliteration!Unscrabbled(unscrambled?) is better than un-magic, though.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
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twoleftfeet
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:47 pm

ray miller wrote:Well, I preferred the original 1st and 5th verses, I'm afraid. Bring back alliteration!Unscrabbled(unscrambled?) is better than un-magic, though.
Ray,
I'm glad you thought "unscrabbled" is a typo, because I'm trying to evoke "unscrambled" in the reader's mind, but also
Spell => Scrabble :evil: How many points is that to me? :)

I was under the impression that nobody understood the 5th verse: is it too "telly" now?

Cheers
Geoff
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:05 pm

I liked the wardrobe shuddering guiltily before and I really don't like baste. Is there a telly now as well as a wardrobe.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
Basnik
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:11 am

Hi,

I liked this but... here are some thoughts for what they're worth. You have an interesting way of ending lines with a weak stress and going straight into a trochee on the next line but it's not consistent so the kind of momentum achieved at some points is a bit fitful. Similarly, line lengths are very variable and this, for me, pulls against the form at times. The bit about says what is does on the tin reminds me of the Cuprinol ad. I thought some of the imagery and phrasing were really vivid and memorable so I feel picky banging on about form. Would be interesting to see how sections of this would stand on their own - could it all be compressed slightly?

Regards

Rich Basnik
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)
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twoleftfeet
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:19 pm

Thanks for taking the time to crit, Rich.

Yes - (does exactly) what it says on the tin started off as an ad for Ronseal woodstain but has passed into the language.
It seemed appropriate to echo it while describing the obliteration of the instructions on a pot of paint. :)

Nobody likes my "layout" so you're in good company. I must start taking this subject seriously, but tbh I find it difficult to do so. If I asked 10 different PGers to re-do it I expect I would get 10 different layouts. Similarly if I tried to write it so as to "lead" the reader to read it as I would we would still all read it differently, and if you heard me read it you would still all write it differently. Hence my layout is done purely to be geometrically not-unpleasing to the eye (I'll get my coat!)

Input appreciated
Geoff
btw you'll have to be more specific about which bits might stand alone and which bits could be safely ditched
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Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:08 pm

Hi,

Sorry to not get back sooner. Hmm, it is easier to say something like 'Would be interesting to see how sections of this would stand on their own,' than actually prove it! I was thinking about 3 and 4 standing alone but the 'emulsion' would have to go to make sense (developing fluid perhaps). Not sure though, actually, think I prefer it as it is. I read it aloud again btw and it read easily so I think I'll get my coat!

Cheers,
Rich
bez prace, nejsou kolaci - without work, there are no cakes (Czech proverb)
dedalus
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Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:23 pm

I have a pretty fair idea that what I'm about to say to you will not meet with joyful approbation so if you want to fling your pint glass at the wall, do it now. Crash! Well, that's done.

The attitude towards form is excellent, there is no evidence of slavish conformity of any kind and I admire the run-on lines and the way a sentence stops in the middle of a line. Reminds me of a chap I know. The problem, such as it is, is not with form or with theme ... sure, any fuckin theme is all right. The problem is with the adjectives, the language overload. Keep things as lean and clean as you can. Don't tell us too much, particularly if it makes us lose the thread of what's happening. I'm not sure how to explain what I think I am trying to say apart from example and, basically, re-writing ... which is presumptuous and gives rise to a sense of anger which I fully understand.

Now you know why I hate writing crits. It was never just an excuse for laziness. I hate and despise it to the centre of my being because I know what follows: pained acceptance, a few words of protest, good sportsmanship, hurt feelings ... and a spurt of deep subterranean hatred!

Good place to stop. I don't mind crits myself because no matter how hurtful and slashing and demeaning they may be, I don't give a fuck. It takes a few years of writing to get there. It doesn't mean you don't listen; it means you don't listen to idiots who don't understand -- and that cuts down the field.

Let's take a look at your first couple of stanzas:

Half-full or half-empty, the wardrobe's
still hard to tilt and turn. Next she
will assail the walls with a ladder,
deal blinding white to the skirting
in grim, workaholic silence till her
aura washes out exhausted on the couch.

Half-full, half-empty, the wardrobe's
hard to tilt and turn. She will
assail the walls with a ladder,
slap white on the skirting, exude
her grim workaholic silence until
that aura exhausts us all


It's not quite there, but I'm trying to follow you and get a rhythm going.


Your energy, he'd often said, can
pass beyond the body's sheath, a
swirling kaleidoscope that renders
skin and bone mere mirage, a
colour-photo feast for psychics
to pick over at lawyer rates.

Your energy, our Dad often said,
passes beyond the body's ken,
you're a whirlwind of a girl, ...................... you was always a whirlwind type of lass
your skin and bone a mere mirage


... and the rest of it, I'm sorry, I can't follow.

The point I am trying to make is that you have to keep the flow going as you tell the story ... and it is a story, of course it is a story! ... but you need to keep a rhythm so that one line leads on to the next.

I hope in all honesty that I have not offended you ... well, not unneccessarily. It is the most devilishly tricky thing to interfere in other people's poems. I have made no secret of my dislike of having to write comments on other people's work. I hate having to do so as the price of remaining on the PG Forum ... a bloody great forum, BTW. Somebody listening? Good, good ... but there's always room for improvement!! Criticism, however benign and well-meaning, inevitably crosses the threshold of privacy if it actually comes to terms with the writing as something separate from the writer. With poetry, in particular, where emotions so often become closely engaged, this can be a delicate barrier.

Do not hesitate to question me.

Nollaig Shona,
Bren
ray miller
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Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:55 pm

Geoff, I've started a group on Facebook: We Hate That Japanirish Bastard O' Dedalus So We Do!
Wanna join?
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
dedalus
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Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:53 am

Sign me up!

O'Dedalus
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twoleftfeet
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Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:58 am

ray miller wrote:Geoff, I've started a group on Facebook: We Hate That Japanirish Bastard O' Dedalus So We Do!
Wanna join?
Too late, Ray
I've already enlisted the services of those nice, helpful chaps at NINJAS'R'US.CO.JPN.
Being a poet, Brendan labours under the misapprehension that the pen is mightier than the sword. :)
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twoleftfeet
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Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:40 pm

Brendan,

The problem we all have in writing crits (and I dislike doing it as much as you do) is that there is a tendency for all of us to want to re-write the poem in our own image as it were. And you're doing it even though you freely admit that you're unsure of the story that I'm trying to tell.

Take for instance your re-write of my line in S1
deal blinding white to the skirting
as
slap white on the skirting ..
in order to correct what you describe as "language overload".
OK you've pared it down but you've lost the undertone of violence, plus the pun on "deal" which is a generic term for the type of softwood that was overwhelmingly used to make skirting and floorboards in old houses.

Similarly in S2 you've replaced "he" with "Dad". Why? "He" is the villain of the piece , the guy who has walked out on her
(hence the half empty/full wardrobe) leaving her with a sprog on the way.
You've also changed "sheath" to "ken". Again, why? S2 is basically a description of a Kirlian photograph (the title of the poem) and your rewrite would lose the main theme of the poem!

Anyway, just because I've disagreed with most of what you've said doesn't mean that I'm sulking or that I will ignore
your poems or future crits.

Best wishes
Geoff
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Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:48 pm

Geoff ... yes, yes and YES. At least I read the bloody poem from start to finish. Read it and liked it, three times over. There's no reason in the world for you to listen to me, nor to pay the least bit of attention to what I may have a thought to be saying at any particular moment. Why should you? I'm intent on writing my own stuff, here we fuckin go, and I couldn't give a rough rodeo fuck about what other people are writing, sorry about you, unless it hits me like a bullet in the gut. Crits crits here and there. Totally useless, the crits, a waste of time, entirely. I can't really write a poem myself, lost the knack, (this is what you get) so I'll tell you how to write one instead. I'll mess around with you line by line. Allow me to explain where you went wrong in alarming detail.
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