Simon

[Ros]

Sitting on wooden desks at break time
I remember the roundness of your head,
being astounded at your knowledge
of the thirteen times table at a time
when I barely knew the five. You would
go far, I knew, and you did - an accountant
in London - but you had run, not towards
the numbers, but away from the lamppost
your brother wrapped his motorbike
around, five years after we talked.



.

[Arian]

I liked the simplicity of this Ros, its unpretentiousness. You make your point with great clarity, but with poetic poignancy. Given that then, it’s odd that the (as it were) uber-specificity of “an accountant in London” jarred on me just a fraction. Don’t know why, probably just me, but I think the piece would be even stronger if you could find a clear, but non-literal, way of describing Simon’s job. But a good read, though, thanks.

[Mr. Madeleine]

Ros, I've found this to be an engaging, well-executed piece. I'd perhaps revisit L4 with its string of five of the mute consonant "t" which creates a rhythmic effect that may not be desirable at this particular point. I would work more in concert with the poem at the point where the story shifts, which I find somewhat abrupt.

I hope this helps.

[David]

What is it about Simons, eh? There's something about that name that can be a most unfortunate influence on the bearer's life. Only Nigel is more distressing in its effects.

I agree that you don't need the excessive specificity (and prosiness) of "an accountant in London".

I love the opening. Overall, I think I'd have liked more detail about Simon and your school years together. The detail of the lamppost and the motorbike doesn't seem to carry the resonance you probably intend it to have, maybe because it's unclear how it affected the brother, or how serious the accident was.

Any help?

Cheers

David

[Sharra]

Hi Ros, I enjoyed reading this, it has a lovely simple voice to it. I liked the detail of ‘the roundness of your head’, and I liked the ending. I don’t think you need to elaborate on it, as you have already told us the impact on Simon.

For me, the issue that confused me was the age of the narrator. At one point ‘I’ seemed to be very young – ‘I barely knew the five’, whereas the language ‘you would go far’ made me think you were older. I suppose you could argue that the narrator is using present adult language, but it jarred me. Also, before I knew the 5 times table we had playtime not break time, break time was secondary school – but maybe that’s a regional thing?
Anyway, it raised questions about age or special needs for me.

The other minor thing is that ‘wrapped his motorbike’ is very overused, it would be nice to have something fresher there.
Sharra
xx

PS I used to have a mate Simon who's brother was murdered, so maybe it is a jinxed name. And as for Nigel - well I used to live with one of them...

[brianedwards]

Really enjoyed the first 4 lines here, especially the detail of the round head and especially the stuttering t-t-t, like a hop and a skip before that momentous "time" which signposts the all-important turn --- I thought it was very skilful.

Unfortunately, the turn turns awry immediately at 5-times-table, for similar reasons as Sharra: 5 times tables are learned at a very young age, 1st or 2nd year primary school in England I think, so the gap between that and the 13 times table is so significant I can't help but feel there is a significant age difference between the speaker and Simon. Then I get really bogged down in the maths of it all when I read "five years after we talked". I guess that would mean the speaker was 11/12 when Simon left for a job in London, possibly as a graduate, making him 21 . . . ? So that means there was a 10 year age difference, making Simon 16 at the time he spoke with the speaker, which makes me wonder what a 16 year old was doing hanging round with a 6 year old, and why would they have been in the same school anyway if there was a 10 year gap? Perhaps that might explain the break-time/play-time issue, which is also problematic. And would someone so young know that someone would "go far"?
I may be getting this completely wrong (never was very good with numbers), but that's how I read it I'm afraid.

Regards "accountant in London", I don't so much have a problem with adding the detail, even though it is very prosaic, but for me " accountant" just seems a bit heavy-handed, cheesy perhaps: he was good at maths so he must have become an accountant.

Regards "wrapped his motorbike", I agree the phrase is well-worn, but I do like the line break very much:

your brother wrapped his motorbike
around

the effect is like spinning round a pole.

Will look out for a revision.

B.

~

[Ros]

Thanks, all - I wasn't sure which way to go with this one and now I have some ideas. Simon was the same age as me - about 9 perhaps here? Can't actually remember which tables I was up to, but it wasn't my strong point then, and Simon really did know the 13 at the age of 9. And he did, I think, become an accountant, obvious though it may be! In the interests of poetics I shall rethink the last half though. Thanks again all, most helpful.

Ros

[Susan-Morris3]

Whaw scary place this experienced poets place!!! I loved this poem very much on reading it I found it a very sad poem,.Then I read the comments and the things others picked up on, eeek. On re reading found them to make sense. And Simon yes the only Simon I ever knew was the Simon who met a pie-man. and Simon and the magic torch, of course my favorite Simon. Simon Smith and his amazing dancing bear.x

[Wabznasm]

Hmm, sorry Ros but I'm not really fond of this. It doesn't, for me at least, seem to have much beyond the interest of an anecdote (well written anecdote at that).

If I look at the end, where the poem obviously takes its motion, I find that what makes this a poem (the link between topics and ideas) is quite tenuous. The 'but you had run, not towards the numbers, but away..." is actually quite irrelevent to the times table, and that conceit of numbers seems more accidental or convenient rather than an integral point of the poem. It could've been biology, and the poem could've been written thus:

Sitting on wooden desks at break time
I remember the roundness of your head,
being astounded at your knowledge
of mitochondira and vacuoles at a time
when I barely knew the petri. You would
go far, I knew, and you did - a biologist
in London - but you had run, not towards
the organism, but away from the lamppost
your brother wrapped his motorbike
around, five years after we talked.

That's the problem. I don't see the motif of numbers as integral to this poem in any way, and I think it exposes the workings of the writing too much (set up topic - link to future - link to the past).

Sorry to be so heavy handed!
Dave

[Ros]

Susan, thanks for the read. I of course posted this as an example of a bad poem so that you could see how to crit!

Dave, harshness entirely justified. I'm keen on the idea of this but it needs some serious re-working. Thanks for the comments.

[Arian]

Hmmm. Not so sure. I don’t think I agree with Sharra, Brian or Dave on this one.

I find it quite plausible that some prodigy/savant type could know their 13’s when you were struggling with 5’s. And if he were that good with numbers, then accountancy, or similar, would be a natural progression, so the numbers thing does become thematic, central to the piece. As to the “five years after...” point, well , it could have an older brother...this doesn’t seem a problem to me. True, “Wrapped around” may be tad clichéd, but it serves a purpose here – it's an established euphemism which excuses the poet from any further explanation, as everyone knows its implications – you don’t get just cuts and scratches from wrapping yourself round a lamppost! I read it that Simon’s true calling was motorcycling (or something else dangerous), but he ran away from it in favour of his (less interesting to him) intellectual abilities, as a result of his brother’s accident.

My view, Ros, is that it doesn’t need major work at all – I’d stick with it much as it is, apart from “an accountant in London”.

[stuartryder]

Thanks, all - I wasn't sure which way to go with this one and now I have some ideas. Simon was the same age as me - about 9 perhaps here? Can't actually remember which tables I was up to, but it wasn't my strong point then, and Simon really did know the 13 at the age of 9. And he did, I think, become an accountant, obvious though it may be! In the interests of poetics I shall rethink the last half though. Thanks again all, most helpful.

Ros

Ros, I must say that it is not a given or obvious that a 9 year old who is good at maths would become an accountant. I mean I knew my times tables up till the 12s at that age but look at me, environment officer that I am. I'm crap at maths now.

I don't find that line hugely poetic but that doesn't matter, we don't have to be poet-y all the time.

Stu