November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man I was has gone.
Up the lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Like vultures round a sky bone.
Was:
November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man who came here gone.
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Black vultures round a sky bone.
Marc
Moving On (was 'November' was 'Sky Bone'!)
Last edited by Marc on Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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ray miller
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Very nice, Marc.Loved the first line and "kicking off unwanted passengers", and the image of vultures hovering around a sky bone is great. Good stuff.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
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Tamara Beryl Latham
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Marc wrote:
Lines 1 and 2 of the second strophe carry such weight. I'm reluctant to interpret, but would the line
"the young man who came here gone," have a similar meaning to "the pick-up in the driveway where mine used to be?"
The analogy of rooks/bare oak to black vultures/sky bone is a great one.
Keep writing, Marc.
Best,
Tamara
***Marc, the images are great, especially "packing my life up, kicking off unwanted passengers."Sky Bone
November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man who came here gone.
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Black vultures round a sky bone.
Lines 1 and 2 of the second strophe carry such weight. I'm reluctant to interpret, but would the line
"the young man who came here gone," have a similar meaning to "the pick-up in the driveway where mine used to be?"
The analogy of rooks/bare oak to black vultures/sky bone is a great one.
Keep writing, Marc.
Best,
Tamara
"Truth, like light, is often slanted"...Tamara B. Latham, ©2019
compact & expressive!
great images:
November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs
& the expression:
Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
sky bones - expressive title & the last picture:
Black vultures round a sky bone.
great images:
November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs
& the expression:
Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
sky bones - expressive title & the last picture:
Black vultures round a sky bone.
Thanks all.
Tamara, I can see how you could interpret the poem that way, but actually it's to do with leaving a family home after many years. I was that young man (hey, I'm not that old now just feeling it sometimes...!)
Marc
Tamara, I can see how you could interpret the poem that way, but actually it's to do with leaving a family home after many years. I was that young man (hey, I'm not that old now just feeling it sometimes...!)
Marc
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Arian
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I liked this Marc – an easy rhythm and nice use of subtle rhyme.
The black vultures figure is very good – but something jarred about it. It took me a while to decide what it was, and even now I’m not sure. I think it’s because it relies on a comparison of two quite similar items (two birds), which in some odd way undermines it. But I’m probably talking rubbish.
Nice piece.
Cheers
peter
The black vultures figure is very good – but something jarred about it. It took me a while to decide what it was, and even now I’m not sure. I think it’s because it relies on a comparison of two quite similar items (two birds), which in some odd way undermines it. But I’m probably talking rubbish.
Nice piece.
Cheers
peter
No, that's a good point and - to prove it - I thought that too. It's a very good line, though.Arian wrote:I liked this Marc – an easy rhythm and nice use of subtle rhyme.
The black vultures figure is very good – but something jarred about it. It took me a while to decide what it was, and even now I’m not sure. I think it’s because it relies on a comparison of two quite similar items (two birds), which in some odd way undermines it. But I’m probably talking rubbish.
Cheers
David
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Ros
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What's a sky bone?
Rosencrantz: What are you playing at? Guildenstern: Words. Words. They're all we have to go on.
___________________________
Antiphon - www.antiphon.org.uk
___________________________
Antiphon - www.antiphon.org.uk
Aah, Ros - you're supposed to be a poet and make some allowance for poetice licence! 
I'm referring to a bare tree stark against a grey sky and likening it to a bone supporting the sky. OK, it's not actually a bone that supports the sky, although I could stretch it by saying that trees and their respiratory systems are in a way part of the structure of the atmosphere and therefore the bones of the sky.... oh well, it's a justification of sorts.
Isn't it part of the job of the poet to find new ways of seeing things?
Marc
I'm referring to a bare tree stark against a grey sky and likening it to a bone supporting the sky. OK, it's not actually a bone that supports the sky, although I could stretch it by saying that trees and their respiratory systems are in a way part of the structure of the atmosphere and therefore the bones of the sky.... oh well, it's a justification of sorts.
Isn't it part of the job of the poet to find new ways of seeing things?
Marc
and thanks David and Peter. Valid point comparing one bird with another... but vultures have a different connotation.
Marc
Marc
Last edited by Marc on Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tamara Beryl Latham
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Marc wrote:
Now that you've included the interpretation, it really doesn't matter, but here is my interpretation. Remember, each person views the same thing through a different lens.
This is how I associated "the young man who came here gone" with "the pick up in the driveway, where mine used to be."
So, why come back to disturbing memories.
I associated the crows circling, with vultures picking at bones. The metaphor: what has happened has killed you emotionally, and the vultures, as a result, picking at all that is left of you, your very bones.
My version is the movie version, but I like yours too
Best,
Tamara
Now that you've included the interpretation, it really doesn't matter, but here is my interpretation. Remember, each person views the same thing through a different lens.
***For some reason you are disillusioned with the month of November. The fact you mentioned old grey underclothes makes me think something is drastically wrong in the house. The grey underclothes could very easily have been what you found, another man's clothes.November flaps like old grey underclothes.
***I then conclude, the grass is overgrown, garden's a mess. Things you used to do, like mowing the lawn, you've let go.Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
***The way I read it is something dramatic and emotional has gone wrong in your house. This is the final straw that causes you to pack up and leave. The fact you mentioned "unwanted passengers," makes me think of people, perhaps your wife and her family, like your mother-in-law. What has happened in November, the shock to your mental system, has forced you to leave. You have decided you will not look back on the house, where it all happened, because it only brings back dark memories.Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
***I interpreted this as your wife's lover. You remained with her because of the kids, but now they're grown, and the man with whom she had an affair gone, what's the point of staying.No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man who came here gone.
This is how I associated "the young man who came here gone" with "the pick up in the driveway, where mine used to be."
So, why come back to disturbing memories.
***I didn't make a connection to a bare tree stark against a grey sky and likening it to a bone supporting the sky. Nor did I make a connection with rainbow, but that would have been a nice visual on the Silver Screen.Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Black vultures round a sky bone.
I associated the crows circling, with vultures picking at bones. The metaphor: what has happened has killed you emotionally, and the vultures, as a result, picking at all that is left of you, your very bones.
My version is the movie version, but I like yours too
Best,
Tamara
"Truth, like light, is often slanted"...Tamara B. Latham, ©2019
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Raisin
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Really good read,
I especially like the vultures line, which I interpreted as their silhouettes circling the moon, rather than the sun which is what you normally see them wheeling around. Nice to see the amount of different readings you've encouraged with this line
Thanks very much,
Raisin
I especially like the vultures line, which I interpreted as their silhouettes circling the moon, rather than the sun which is what you normally see them wheeling around. Nice to see the amount of different readings you've encouraged with this line
Thanks very much,
Raisin
In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded. (Terry Pratchett on the Big Bang Theory)
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Suzanne
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Marc,
The first line is great. It lingers in my head. Very nice.
I really liked this poem a lot. It feels heavy and yet not stagnant.
I liked the title and the idea of the sky bone. Very well done.
Liked it a lot,
Suzanne
The first line is great. It lingers in my head. Very nice.
I really liked this poem a lot. It feels heavy and yet not stagnant.
I liked the title and the idea of the sky bone. Very well done.
Liked it a lot,
Suzanne
Thanks Suzanne and Raisin: appreciated.
Tamara your film take is very interesting! It assumes however that my partner would take a lover with old grey underclothes (and perhaps wash them and hang them out to flap! ).
On the other hand the young man who parked his pick up where mine should be (true C&W style!), would he be wearing these old grey underclothes? In the C&W videos I've seen the assumption is that under his ripped jeans next to the lower part of his ripped torso he'd be wearing tighty whities - Calvin Kleins at least!
Ah well, all good fun....
Marc
Tamara your film take is very interesting! It assumes however that my partner would take a lover with old grey underclothes (and perhaps wash them and hang them out to flap! ).
On the other hand the young man who parked his pick up where mine should be (true C&W style!), would he be wearing these old grey underclothes? In the C&W videos I've seen the assumption is that under his ripped jeans next to the lower part of his ripped torso he'd be wearing tighty whities - Calvin Kleins at least!
Ah well, all good fun....
Marc
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Sharra
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Marc, I loved the first line of this, listening to the wind tonight it feels so apt. You have some great images in here but it doesn’t quite gel for me yet.
The downside with starting of with such a great line, is that you then have to live up to that. I wasn’t keen on ‘ratty’ or ‘arse’ in here, lines 2 and 3 don’t work as well for me.
Reading your comment on this, I assume that the ‘young man’ in S2 is the ‘I’ of S1? However it doesn’t feel read like this to me and feels like it has shifted to the third person. I wonder if you need to keep it either in 1st, or change ‘my’ to ‘a’ and ‘I’ to ‘he’ in S1 to shift the whole thing to 3rd.
I love the rooks/bare oak image but I’m not sure about the last line. ‘Vultures’ is a word with such connotations it feels slightly out of synch with the poem to me. The same with ‘sky bone’ – this phrase feels too strong and like it would need some link to the rest of the images to fit in really. (If that makes sense).
Sharra
xx
The downside with starting of with such a great line, is that you then have to live up to that. I wasn’t keen on ‘ratty’ or ‘arse’ in here, lines 2 and 3 don’t work as well for me.
Reading your comment on this, I assume that the ‘young man’ in S2 is the ‘I’ of S1? However it doesn’t feel read like this to me and feels like it has shifted to the third person. I wonder if you need to keep it either in 1st, or change ‘my’ to ‘a’ and ‘I’ to ‘he’ in S1 to shift the whole thing to 3rd.
I love the rooks/bare oak image but I’m not sure about the last line. ‘Vultures’ is a word with such connotations it feels slightly out of synch with the poem to me. The same with ‘sky bone’ – this phrase feels too strong and like it would need some link to the rest of the images to fit in really. (If that makes sense).
Sharra
xx
It is at the edge of the
petal that love waits
petal that love waits
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Tamara Beryl Latham
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Marc wrote:
***No, nothing to do with your partner, but rather the jealous partner, or husband (you), who sees nothing but darkness in his competition (another man). So, you would equate the other man with dirt, slime, etc. You would view
his fresh white underclothes, as dirty and grey, because white is associated with purity. And finally, you would view November as a tragic month, for in that month life lost its meaning for you. My take.
Cheers!
Tamara
Tamara your film take is very interesting! It assumes however that my partner would take a lover with old grey underclothes (and perhaps wash them and hang them out to flap! ).
On the other hand the young man who parked his pick up where mine should be (true C&W style!), would he be wearing these old grey underclothes? In the C&W videos I've seen the assumption is that under his ripped jeans next to the lower part of his ripped torso he'd be wearing tighty whities - Calvin Kleins at least!
***No, nothing to do with your partner, but rather the jealous partner, or husband (you), who sees nothing but darkness in his competition (another man). So, you would equate the other man with dirt, slime, etc. You would view
his fresh white underclothes, as dirty and grey, because white is associated with purity. And finally, you would view November as a tragic month, for in that month life lost its meaning for you. My take.
***I agree! Write another one.Ah well, all good fun....
Cheers!
Tamara
"Truth, like light, is often slanted"...Tamara B. Latham, ©2019
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brianedwards
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One of your best I think Marc.
Enjoyed it all except "arse end of the year" and "sky bone". The two are at odds with each other in terms of voice I think: the former being casual everyman-speak, the latter an obvious attempt at poetic description.
Quibbles aside, enjoyable.
B.
~
Enjoyed it all except "arse end of the year" and "sky bone". The two are at odds with each other in terms of voice I think: the former being casual everyman-speak, the latter an obvious attempt at poetic description.
Quibbles aside, enjoyable.
B.
~
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brianedwards
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Just read through all the comments and I agree it is interesting that the last image has thrown up such a range of interpretations. However, I am not convinced by any of them. Thinking purely in terms of voice for this poem's narrator, it reads as quite a weighty, ambitious metaphor which doesn't sit well with the tone of the rest of the poem. Compare it with line 1: the casual ease with which you roll out that deceptively simple simile.
I think the phrase "sky bone" is trying too hard, tbh, but if you wish to keep it, I would suggest changing to a simile:
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak
like black vultures round a sky bone.
Actually I would also trim back a couple of modifiers:
Up the lane rooks circle a bare oak
like black vultures round a sky bone.
Or maybe even ease the impact of the simile further thusly:
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak
like vultures picking the sky's bones.
You might want to look at line 2 at some point too: 3 modifiers in such a short line --- overkill?
B.
~
I think the phrase "sky bone" is trying too hard, tbh, but if you wish to keep it, I would suggest changing to a simile:
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak
like black vultures round a sky bone.
Actually I would also trim back a couple of modifiers:
Up the lane rooks circle a bare oak
like black vultures round a sky bone.
Or maybe even ease the impact of the simile further thusly:
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak
like vultures picking the sky's bones.
You might want to look at line 2 at some point too: 3 modifiers in such a short line --- overkill?
B.
~
Thanks all.
Brian, i see exactly your point over the contradiction between the early tone and the poetic 'sky bone'.
Therefore I've whipped that out and simplified a little. Also simplified the line about 'the young man who came here gone' to avoid confusion.
Also lost muddy lane and made vultures a simile.
Any better?
Or has it lost something..... not totally sure meself..
Marc
Brian, i see exactly your point over the contradiction between the early tone and the poetic 'sky bone'.
Therefore I've whipped that out and simplified a little. Also simplified the line about 'the young man who came here gone' to avoid confusion.
Also lost muddy lane and made vultures a simile.
Any better?
Or has it lost something..... not totally sure meself..
Marc
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twoleftfeet
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Hi Marc,
I'm glad you've gone along with the suggestions.
I'm not convinced by "underclothes", though - it seems prissy when compared with language like "arse end".
Also the title doesn't do the poem justice, especially as it's also the first word of the poem!
Nice one
Geoff
I'm glad you've gone along with the suggestions.
I'm not convinced by "underclothes", though - it seems prissy when compared with language like "arse end".
Also the title doesn't do the poem justice, especially as it's also the first word of the poem!
Nice one
Geoff
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stuartryder
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Marc, visiting the revision I wonder why you've kept the original title. It wasn't *that* clever in the first place and now you've lost "sky bone" - for the better - in the final line, it seems to me you don't need that image at all.
In fact I think the two halves of the simile at the end of the poem are too similar. Rooks, tree, vultures, bone... It is almost too compatible to be interesting.
In this piece I feel the spirit of Brian's minimalist urges (forgive me, Archangel) but it is clouded. (Disregarding My Life As A Fish's run-ons.) I wonder, Marc, if you might ferret out an imagist verse or two from this and I don't think you would need the rest. Eg,
My suitcase packed,
free of unwanted gifts.
The kids are grown.
Rooks circle an oak.
In fact I think the two halves of the simile at the end of the poem are too similar. Rooks, tree, vultures, bone... It is almost too compatible to be interesting.
In this piece I feel the spirit of Brian's minimalist urges (forgive me, Archangel) but it is clouded. (Disregarding My Life As A Fish's run-ons.) I wonder, Marc, if you might ferret out an imagist verse or two from this and I don't think you would need the rest. Eg,
My suitcase packed,
free of unwanted gifts.
The kids are grown.
Rooks circle an oak.
Marc wrote:November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man I was has gone.
Up the lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Like vultures round a bone.
Was:
November flaps like old grey underclothes.
Ratty grass, blown shrubs. Garden broken
at the arse end of the year.
Packing my life up, kicking off
unwanted passengers. I won't see
another summer here.
No matter: the kids are grown,
the young man who came here gone.
Up the muddy lane rooks circle a bare oak.
Black vultures round a sky bone.
Marc
Thanks Geoff and Stuart,
Umm, the title has been changed Stuart - I only kept " (was 'Sky Bone') " there so people could follow the thread. I'm not sure about 'November' though - doesn't really say anything and as Geoff says it is the first word of the poem... I'll think on.
Underclothes...I like that first line on the whole - underpants would be too comic!
I think there is a connection between arse and underclothes...
I'm not a complete convert to minimalism. I think a poem should tell you something and not leave everything to the reader to figure out or imagine. I've kept a degree of rhyme and some structure here and feel more maybe more in this instance!
Thanks,
Marc
Umm, the title has been changed Stuart - I only kept " (was 'Sky Bone') " there so people could follow the thread. I'm not sure about 'November' though - doesn't really say anything and as Geoff says it is the first word of the poem... I'll think on.
Underclothes...I like that first line on the whole - underpants would be too comic!
I think there is a connection between arse and underclothes...
I'm not a complete convert to minimalism. I think a poem should tell you something and not leave everything to the reader to figure out or imagine. I've kept a degree of rhyme and some structure here and feel more maybe more in this instance!
Thanks,
Marc
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twoleftfeet
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Marc, I agree - a close connection, you could say it's a touching one too..Marc wrote:
Underclothes...I like that first line on the whole - underpants would be too comic!
I think there is a connection between arse and underclothes...
But underclothes is still too "polite" for me.
The image I was getting was one of tattiness, bagginess, , arse almost hanging out etc, so couldn't you use
jeans ?
Geoff
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stuartryder
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D'Oh! I really must read more closely next time..
Marc wrote:Thanks Geoff and Stuart,
Umm, the title has been changed Stuart - I only kept " (was 'Sky Bone') " there so people could follow the thread. I'm not sure about 'November' though - doesn't really say anything and as Geoff says it is the first word of the poem... I'll think on.
Underclothes...I like that first line on the whole - underpants would be too comic!
I think there is a connection between arse and underclothes...
I'm not a complete convert to minimalism. I think a poem should tell you something and not leave everything to the reader to figure out or imagine. I've kept a degree of rhyme and some structure here and feel more maybe more in this instance!
Thanks,
Marc