Slipknots and loopholes

[Ros]

This is what the sunbeam sees:
a silversmith’s bauble hung like a moon
on a switchback of cold, a whittled orb
on the twin of a branch of a brand
on the leaning young treetop of a solar night.

This is how the moonbeam moves:
rotating, chasing the glittering ball
like a dancefloor spins the ballerina,
hugging silver shoes tight
to the ice on the midnight spruce.

This is how I am fixed:
a certain laughter, a certain lattice,
set with a scalpel of imaginary lines,
caught in a net, pinned by reluctance
to relations, to the shore men,

to the seagulls I salute,
to polecats that bolt, by bouts
of company, fastened
on this chalk-scratched easel
by each slick of tumbled light.


(translated from the original of the famous Finnish poet Herst Larnlaarger)

[dedalus]

Wow! How much is you, Ros, and how much is Mr. Larnlaarger? I wouldn't think translating from Finnish could be all that easy since it has no known connections with any other European language, apart from (in a way) Estonian. What got my heart jumping was the absolute precision of the words, as much an enconium to the translator as the poet in his original language!

Brendan

[Ros]

I may be misleading you a bit on the translation part, Brendan...oh, ok, it's an outright lie. Various poets have used an alter-ego to write in a style not their own, and this is mine! It's strange, if you think something's a translation, you kind of expect strange phrases and it to not entirely make sense. As here!

but many thanks for the kind words!

Ros

[dedalus]

Sly old fox. Now I'm going to have to do a google on every famous Finnish poet you name! I thought the surname was a bit fishy ... a Swedish or Norwegian immigrant? The fact that it's not a translation of someone else's work adds to the blown away factor. This is really really good stuff as you must know yourself (a lot of the time we can't be sure but when a good one comes along, you know it in your bones). You tend to pace yourself with thoughtful poems every 5 weeks or so -- yes, I do pay some attention -- and they are all the better for it. I seem to come out with the beggars like farts or fireworks: part of it is the fear that one day they will simply stop coming. Ah yes, Brendan, but you don't have to post them the same day ...

Anyway, excellent. Glad I was the first to hit on it -- and incidentally blow your cover!

[David]

It is, indeed, really really good. And what a cunning wheeze. Rumbled by Bren in double-quick time, though.

S1 might be a little preposition-heavy - I count three ons and three offs (so they cancel out?) in the last three lines. And I don't know what a solar night is.

In places throughout I might come back with little cavils, but on the whole, terrific. It's a feature, clearly?

Cheers

David

[Ros]

Thanks, chaps! I'm not actually sure there are any famous Finnish poets - at least, I've never heard of them. I've just finished a rather intensive poetry course which has upped my game a bit, so I'm getting to the stage of wanting to hawk some round some mags again to see what happens. Makes me a bit unsure about posting them on an open forum like this one, though.

Happy to hear the cavils, David!

Bren, it is a constant feeling, isn't it, that the desire or the ability might slip away? I have learnt that posting the exact same day will get people poking your work with a sharp stick, but I envy your ability to keep up a constant flow.

Ros

[clarabow]

Ros - why do you have to mask your poems in deception?

C

[Ros]

Ros - why do you have to mask your poems in deception?

C

I don't think I do normally, do I? This was part of a challenge to invent a poet and write in their voice - just to try to force people to do something a bit different. Though actually I think it's probably recognisably mine. I do tend to go for the dense images, but I'm not normally aiming for outright deception!

Ros

[ray miller]

I didn't care for the first verse at all, too many ofs and ons, but I thought the rest was terrific, especially verse 2.

[Ros]

Thanks, Ray, I'm going to have to do something about the ofs and ons, this is becoming clear!

Ros

[Arian]

I don't think I do normally, do I?

Of course you don't. And, if you do, isn't that what poetry actually is, for god's sake, at least in part - an attempt at an unusual, fresh, un-us mode of expression? In other words, a deceptive mode, a mode that it not representative of our everyday selves. It's not...but enough! Another discussion for another day. No, you're not being deceptive Ros, any more than good poetry demands.

For my part, I liked it a lot - inventive, convincing, lyrical. On the other hand, though I try my hardest not to join general refrains, I do agree with the on/off thing.

Cheers
peter

[Nash]

I've nothing new to add to this one Ros, but it is bloody good. The last three stanzas are just great, especially S4 L2.

I agree that there are definitely some problems with S1 though. First two lines good, the other three not so good in my opinion. I like 'the twin of a branch of a brand' though.

[Ros]

Peter, thanks - I think the more I read of 'contemporary' poetry the more I see how many people find it incomprehensible, but the more I get to like it. It's mostly a matter of practice and becoming accustomed to how it works, I think.

Nash, thanks for the read - I'm glad you enjoyed it. Certainly need to think about that first verse.

Ros

[Suzanne]

Ros,

I have enjoyed this thread as well as your poem but must confess that any impression I got of the poem at first reading was washed away by the Finnish twist. While anything is possible, the name is not seemingly very Finnish in origin- and it was not a famous Finnish poet.... yes, there are many who are "world famous in Finland" and I laughed at your comment. The Subdued might even react if they heard it.

I feel obligated to share just a bit from Wiki, skip to the video if you are not interested:

"Since the Middle Ages Finnish has been rich in folklore. Hundreds of old folk poems, stories and their like have been collected since the 1820s into a collection that might be the largest in world. Many of these have since been published as The Ancient Poems of the Finnish People. It is a colossal collection consisting of 27,000 pages in 33 volumes. The morphology of stories was first prepared by Antti Aarne (Aarne-Thompson, The Types of the Folk Tale), used widely in e.g. the United States until recent times.

The most famous collection of folk poetry is by far the Kalevala. Referred to as the Finnish "national epic" it is mainly credited to Elias Lönnrot who compiled the volume. It was first published in 1835 and quickly became a symbol of Finnish nationalism. Finland was then politically controlled by Russia and had previously been part of Sweden. The Kalevala was therefore an important part of early Finnish identity. Beside the collection of lyric poems Kanteletar it has been and still is a major influence in art and music, like Jean Sibelius. It is a common misconception that Lönnrot merely "collected" pre-existing poetry. It is now widely accepted that the Kalevala represents an amalgam of loosely connected source materials, freely altered by Lönnrot to present the appearance of a unified whole."

And

"Eino Leino (6 July 1878, Paltamo, Kainuu - 10 January 1926, Tuusula, Uusimaa) was a Finnish poet and journalist and is considered one of the pioneers of Finnish poetry. His poems combine modern and Finnish folk elements. The style of much of his work is like the Kalevala and folk songs. Nature, love, and despair are frequent themes in Leino's work. He is beloved and widely read in Finland today." ( his name is 6 vowels and 3 constants)

The Finns would say that poetry is one of the most important adhesions of their culture.

..

You poem, though very well done, did not hold the underlying despair that the "famous Finnish poet" would have entwined... although if it would have hinted at Midsummer, all depressive character traits vanish for those few days and THEN anything is possible. It is all about contrasts.

A simple example is that even Christmas carols are sung in minor keys.

Here is an example of Finnish mentality, if I didn't know these people meant every word (shown in that they live what they say), I would think it is funny but....
You who are also tuned in a minor key will enjoy this:



I hope you didn't mind me speaking up. In a very strange and healthy way, I felt I had to defend them. Oh, how funny is that?

Warmly,
Suzanne

[clarabow]

No, you're not being deceptive Ros, any more than good poetry demands.

"translated from the original of the famous Finnish poet Herst Larnlaarger" -


It was this deception I was referring to

not the voice in the poem, which is part of the art of writing. And the poem is very good.

[Mic]

I did like this Ros. What I liked best about it is its rhythm, its internal melody (created by those lovely sound devices - assonance and consonance etc) which gives it a lot of aural appeal. I also like the sense of place created through the transition from the movement of the spheres to the fixed. I'm not sure that the poem's literal 'sense' will bear too close an examination, but somehow that doesn't really matter.

If Bri were here he might have balked at 'sunbeam' and 'moonbeam'.

Mic

[Ros]

Suzanne, that was all really interesting - and of course I'm only showing my ignorance about Finnish culture! I picked it because it is one of those languages very few people outside the country know anything about. I love the video - 'reference numbers are too long'! I should probably lose the references to Finland and just let the poem stand on its own. Thanks for commenting!

Ros

[Ros]

Mic, thanks - yes, probably best not to delve too deep into the meaning, here. Sunbeam, moonbeam - yes, but I was hoping I'd get away with it as an almost ironic use, rather than merely descriptive...

Ros

[twoleftfeet]

Ros,

I really like S1 and S2, and since there seems to be an element of your "science poems" in here, with "rotating" light
(I'll take your word for it! - gravity ? ) I don't have any problems with sunbeams or moonbeams.

On the other hand I'm finding it hard to see anything but a tentative link to S3, and then S4 has me stumped completely;
it seems to be driven by sound rather than meaning (saluting seagulls, bolting polecats) - that may be your intention, or (of course) I may just be thick:
my excuse is that my brain is still hurting from watching HORIZON on Monday
As I'm apparently a mere hologram, you can comfortably disregard my ramblings..

Geoff

[Mic]

@ Geoff - I can't watch Horizon anymore, not after the episode on infinity which completely freaked me out.

Mic

[David]

Happy to hear the cavils, David!

Well, if I'm going to come a cavilling (among the leaves so green), here are the lines that I think sound lovely but play a bit fast and loose with the language:

like a dancefloor spins the ballerina,
hugging silver shoes tight
to the ice

and

set with a scalpel

And that's it, really, although I also think that with "pinned by reluctance / to relations" you've erred on the side of alliteration.

But those really are minor points. As a whole, I like it a lot. (And I like the conceit of the imaginary poet too.)

Cheers

David

[Ros]

Those Finns do play a bit fast and loose, don't they? Thanks, D.

[Basnik]

Hi Ros,

I enjoyed this, loved the phrasing and the obliqueness. I agree the first stanza has too many parallel phrases, and the second has an odd ballerina, ice skate confusion, deliberate or otherwise. I liked the fluidity of the lines - it seems like it's mostly a four stress line but you have the occasional three stress line (l.4 in s.1) in the first few stanzas. It all gets more compressed with some short two stress lines in the last stanza though, and that changes the tone, in a good way I think but it makes it more irregular whereas earlier it seemed more balanced. I should be wearing an anorak.

Loved the last line.

Rich Basnik

[Ros]

Geoff, we're all holograms here - except of course we can't see each other, so I guess we're all nothing at all.... you're fine, it was designed to confuse!

Rich, thanks, I'll think about the stresses. Far too much stress round here...

Ros

[Nicky B]

Ros,

Read this lots now and can't think of anything particularly intelligent to say, but I did want to say that I really enjoyed it, although I have no idea why as I've no idea what it is about. S3 my favourite by a mile, S1 was my least favourite by an hour or two.

Nicky B.