Poetry Forum

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:47 pm**

Full Moon Phase, The Hunter or To the Full Moon on the Subject of Darkness
If anyone ever addressed you, it was
with a breathless “where are you going?” R.M. Rilke

I have been waiting
and now you appear
between dark branches
luminous as a man

who has seen the edge
of the universe. I’ve missed
you and asked questions
of everything white:

silver birch and jasmine,
an egret feather that grazed
the palm, snow’s possibility
of rumor, even the missing

reflection of water but night
moved to the bed
of the river and stood nude
and mute in its shadow.

The sky, like me, emptied too
but for a few stars
who dared to tell,
you were the same

moon who made a mirror
of yourself in the white
fruited Rowan, sheltered Rilke
as he slept in the outline

of the sphinx. The one
who lit the face
of Buddha as he realized
that nothing is ever lost

in the universe. The last time
I saw you, you were waning
gibbous, floating east as a daydream,
in the blue. Like Orion I have learned

to wait. I can lose this belt of stars.
We are, each of us, astronomers
and I am not afraid to leave you
alone with what is yours.

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:02 pm**

Hi
For me the poem is weakened slightly by the reference to Rilke. It is a stray literary reference that is slightly distracting.

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:54 pm**

Enjoyable to read Lois, I'm pretty sure I've seen this somewhere else recently. Not unless you read it at The Art House and I'm sure you didn't.

I'm having a little hiccup at this point

but for a few stars
who dared to tell
you were the same

moon who made a mirror

With the current punctuation I'm reading it as the stars telling you then that throws off the reading of 'you were the same/ moon'. I know there is a line break after tell, but may be a comma would indicate a longer pause and slight change of direction is needed there. Likely as ever it is me.

I am unfamiliar with the Rilke, rowan, Buddha, Sphinx references and likely losing a lot as a result. However even so there is plenty here to enjoy which means it is working.

Personally I would prefer 'alone' to drop from the end of the second last line to the last line, but that is only personal preference.

Glad to see you around here again.

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:32 am**

Antcliff wrote:Hi
For me the poem is weakened slightly by the reference to Rilke. It is a stray literary reference that is slightly distracting.

HI Ant,

Thanks very much for reading. Are you referring to the epigraph beneath the title or the reference to Rilke within the poem?

E

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:42 am**

BenJohnson wrote:Enjoyable to read Lois, I'm pretty sure I've seen this somewhere else recently. Not unless you read it at The Art House and I'm sure you didn't.

I'm having a little hiccup at this point

but for a few stars
who dared to tell
you were the same

moon who made a mirror
With the current punctuation I'm reading it as the stars telling you then that throws off the reading of 'you were the same/ moon'. I know there is a line break after tell, but may be a comma would indicate a longer pause and slight change of direction is needed there. Likely as ever it is me.

I am unfamiliar with the Rilke, rowan, Buddha, Sphinx references and likely losing a lot as a result. However even so there is plenty here to enjoy which means it is working.

Personally I would prefer 'alone' to drop from the end of the second last line to the last line, but that is only personal preference.

Glad to see you around here again.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for coming to this one. it's a recent poem I felt like workshopping. Plenty of my usual enigmatic references to confuse people

. I made your two suggested changes easily. No I didn't read this one at The Art House. I just wrote it about two days ago so it's fraaaash. I'm happy to play with the references. Change or replace. The only one I'd def. keep is the Buddha as it goes to the heart of the poem. The day the Buddha experienced enlightenment, there was a full moon.

I might post another couple of poems I wrote based on my recent trip to England. Tomorrow is The Art House's next reading. Are you going?

E

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:43 am**

You are two days out Lois I went on Friday

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:12 pm**

hi
I was referring to the reference in the text itself.
Generally I am not fond of references to literary figures in poems - unless poem is about them - belongs in index I say.
To press the point (ever so gently) does it matter for the poem that the figure mentioned is Rilke? If not, why introduce a distraction? Whenever a poem steers someone to a literary figure it also inevitably steers them slightly away from itself - and the poem is the thing.
ant

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:32 pm**

Hi, E

I don't have a problem with Rilke because he wouldn't have a problem with this poem IMHO.

All the personification brought to mind St Francis's Brother Sun, Sister Moon.

I was wondering whether "a man who has seen the edge of the universe" is Buddha?

I'd be tempted to move the reference to Rilke and the sphinx so that the mirror reference directly precedes the reference to
Buddha's face.

I'd also lose "astronomers" - it's too scientific IMHO. Maybe "star-gazers" , "star-watchers", or even just "observers"?

Just my cup of metaphysicky.

Geoff

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:20 pm**

Hi E,

Should it me "missing reflection _in_ water"? It's not the water that is reflected...

Also, do you need some punctuation after "water", I think you are terminating your list of who you asked at that point?

It took a couple of reads, but once I got it I enjoyed it.

Ian

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:20 am**

Another poem about the moon - great. Sorry Lois, but this reads to me like pretentious hackneyed spiritual nonsense. I'm obviously not the audience for this kind of thing, but it would be wrong of me not to air my opinion on such vapid unoriginality.

B.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:29 am**

Antcliff wrote:hi
I was referring to the reference in the text itself.
Generally I am not fond of references to literary figures in poems - unless poem is about them - belongs in index I say.
To press the point (ever so gently) does it matter for the poem that the figure mentioned is Rilke? If not, why introduce a distraction? Whenever a poem steers someone to a literary figure it also inevitably steers them slightly away from itself - and the poem is the thing.
ant

Ant you bring up a good point. I would say that the reference to Rilke is a kind of sacred expression. It's good to see outside of my own thoughts on it. Thank you!

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:33 am**

BenJohnson wrote:You are two days out Lois I went on Friday

Ah! I must get the full report then

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:41 am**

twoleftfeet wrote:Hi, E

I don't have a problem with Rilke because he wouldn't have a problem with this poem IMHO.

I would hope not Geoff!

All the personification brought to mind St Francis's Brother Sun, Sister Moon.

I was wondering whether "a man who has seen the edge of the universe" is Buddha?

The poem came forth from a photograph that was given to me. It is indeed a personification. I don't believe the moon has a specific identify -- it is more or less a god-like presence that has seen everything since creation. I guess that's what I felt when I wrote it but I also wanted to maintain a more specific directness to the friend who sent me the photograph.

I'd be tempted to move the reference to Rilke and the sphinx so that the mirror reference directly precedes the reference to
Buddha's face.

How would you arrange that exactly? I'd be grateful to get your impression of the flow.

I'd also lose "astronomers" - it's too scientific IMHO. Maybe "star-gazers" , "star-watchers", or even just "observers"?

I agree with you. Let me think on that term. I have star so I need to come up with something else...

Just my cup of metaphysicky.

II do love metaphysical poetry. It's my favorite beverage. Cheers and thanks!!.

Geoff

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:43 am**

bodkin wrote:Hi E,

Should it me "missing reflection _in_ water"? It's not the water that is reflected...

Also, do you need some punctuation after "water", I think you are terminating your list of who you asked at that point?

It took a couple of reads, but once I got it I enjoyed it.

Ian

Good catch! Yes I will revise that bit. Thanks kindly for having a look.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:44 am**

brianedwards wrote:Another poem about the moon - great. Sorry Lois, but this reads to me like pretentious hackneyed spiritual nonsense. I'm obviously not the audience for this kind of thing, but it would be wrong of me not to air my opinion on such vapid unoriginality.

B.

Thanks Brian. Your opinion is certainly noted in the annals of critique history

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:53 am**

Lois, the poem is not worthy of a line-by-line. It just wouldn't stand up. Don't be so precious.
But for the record, I will amend my previous comment:

brianedwards wrote:Another poem about the moon - great. Sorry Lois, but this reads to me like pretentious hackneyed spiritual nonsense. I'm obviously not the audience for this kind of thing, but it would be wrong of me not to air my opinion when an obviously talented writer turns out such vapid unoriginality.

B.

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:30 am**

Antcliff wrote:Hi
For me the poem is weakened slightly by the reference to Rilke. It is a stray literary reference that is slightly distracting.

I'm thinking about this and I may need to change it to something else because of the epigraph or else do away with the epigraph. Hmm. I'll sleep on it!

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:01 am**

emuse wrote: asked questions
of everything white:

silver birch and jasmine,
an egret feather that grazed
the palm, snow’s possibility
of rumor,

For me, the heart of the poem is this section. I think it's hard when writing about something like the moon to stay with the specific images which make your thoughts unique.

emuse wrote: The sky, like me, emptied too
but for a few stars
who dared to tell,

At times, like here, you drift into rather a vague oneness with the universe. I generally enjoy your lyricism, but I think here you need to show something more muscular. So I'm sort of siding with Brian, but of course in a much more polite way

Ros

Posted: **Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:30 pm**

emuse wrote: The poem came forth from a photograph that was given to me. It is indeed a personification. I don't believe the moon has a specific identify -- it is more or less a god-like presence that has seen everything since creation. I guess that's what I felt when I wrote it but I also wanted to maintain a more specific directness to the friend who sent me the photograph.

E, you might want to try and bring that out more.

twoleftfeet wrote: I'd be tempted to move the reference to Rilke and the sphinx so that the mirror reference directly precedes the reference to
Buddha's face.

emuse wrote: How would you arrange that exactly? I'd be grateful to get your impression of the flow.

Oh dear - you'd have to disturb the line
fruited Rowan, sheltered Rilke
- which would be a shame. Best to leave as is.

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:52 am**

Ros wrote: So I'm sort of siding with Brian, but of course in a much more polite way

Ros

Point taken Ros. Apologies Lois for any offence.

B.

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:30 pm**

Hi
Nah - stick with it. The image of some wee soul wandering about asking all the white things is nice - even "snow's possibility of rumour". I'm new to the site and though the content of poem is far from my cup of tea (being former philosophy academic)it is one of only two I have seen so far that hints at lyrical ability. I'd side with Ros in perhaps wanting something slightly more muscular in content (?), but from the viewpoint of lyricism it is ahead of a rather clunky pack.."floating as a daydream in the blue".
Ant

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:26 pm**

Hello Ant,

I shall certainly stick with it. In fact, it already has a home. I was wishing to sculpt it to a finishing point and I had been away so long from PG and thought I'd drop her in to see what I could do. I'm a great fan of lyrical poetry and though I've been going slightly more narrative, this one is a style which I enjoy writing most. I do strive for meaning in short metaphysical works.

Geoff I will. I guess it's partially a romantic poem tucked into a poem about the moon.

Ros thank you for coming to this. A little more muscle can be good! I don't want big biceps but you know...the poem should look like it's well toned eh?

Brian, thank you very much.

I'll be back to this when I can get a little bit more time.

Cheers,

Lois

Posted: **Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:30 pm**

Antcliff wrote:hi
I was referring to the reference in the text itself.
Generally I am not fond of references to literary figures in poems - unless poem is about them - belongs in index I say.
To press the point (ever so gently) does it matter for the poem that the figure mentioned is Rilke? If not, why introduce a distraction? Whenever a poem steers someone to a literary figure it also inevitably steers them slightly away from itself - and the poem is the thing.
ant

I think this is the meat of what to look at. You see the moon is a sacred entity that has seen the world's history. It could be that focusing on Rilke is too specific. I do like the Buddha reference because the night Buddha achieved enlightenment, the moon was full. It may be that I need to extend the poem a bit more or else narrow the focus. It's always a question of what's important. You've given me good food for thought. I'll be very interested to read your work.

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:45 am**

emuse wrote:
Geoff I will. I guess it's partially a romantic poem tucked into a poem about the moon.

E,
I inferred that from:

Like Orion I have learned

to wait. I can lose this belt of stars.
We are, each of us, astronomers
and I am not afraid to leave you
alone with what is yours.

- which is why I asked about the reference to "the man who has just seen the edge of the universe".

The last time
I saw you, you were waning
gibbous, floating east as a daydream

- if this also refers to the man then you need to give the reader more of a clue IMHO - maybe in the title?

The strength of the poem (for me) lies in the contemplation aspect.
I'm reminded of the Buddhist technique (which I expect you know) where you do 3 short meditations:
on someone you really dislike, on someone you are indifferent to, and on someone you love.

Any attempt to get "muscular"/ wildly lyrical will negate the serenity that you have achieved (in my opinion of course).

Geoff

Posted: **Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:20 am**

Thanks to all of you who helped me to shape this. I'm very pleased that it found a home on a spiritual site whose editor is both Christian and Buddhist and who found the idea of waiting a companion to Advent and the reference to Buddha resonant with his own sensibilities. It belongs with the photograph and the friend who helped inspire it. It is satisfying to me for the way in which it all came together.

I've taken some of your suggestions and appreciate all the good advices!

Feel free to PM me for the link to the poem's new home.

Cheers!

Lois

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