Poetry Forum

At tit
a soft
pleasure

they want
more I give
more

the sheer blue
milken dreaminess spurting

they suck
grunt
squeal
every which
way

through the fodder and slops
to the spiritual curl of my tail

I give more
they butt
sore
even the
runts

until
all
to
gather

they trot
spindly-legged

down
my page.

Nice to read your work.

This is great.

I enjoyed the off-key language, it works in relation to the theme.

When reading this I was reminded of many different writers ranging from Hughes to Bukowski.

I suppose for obvious reasons. Hughes/animals and Bukowski/ structure and form

I was also reminded of a poem by Gwendolyn Brooks- http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15433

mostly for rhyming sake and narrative epscially in your lines

Inky wrote:I give more
they butt
sore

Not sure about the line break and spelling of all/to/gather. Was this intentional? rather than it being written as- altogether

Inky wrote:until
all
to
gather

The lines in italics are very nice. Although I cant quite get "blue milken dreaminess"

And I am slightly thrown at the end with the sudden introduction of the "page"

All in all I much enjoyed.

Regards

Vincent

Hi "Inky"

Have we had the pleasure before? How about a quick introduction and a couple of crits for other people's work?

First impressions here: I like it up to "runts" and would prefer it to end there. The rest feels like a tagged on attempt at a metaphor for poetic creation (?) and I could personally do without another of those.

Looking forward to getting to know you mo' bettah.

B.

Hi Inky, I'm new here so hope there is something I can offer that may be useful to you.
I enjoyed the read, the form/style of the write worked well with the theme moving your reader through in good pace and dividing it up nicely as it was called for. I too would have held back at runts as it feels a more natural ending. Hope to be reading more from you as I find my feet. Keep the muse flowing!

Enjoyed it.
I quite liked the gathering on the page at the end, although that makes it quite a different poem...referring to the poem itself. Still, I'd stop at runts as well. I like the line that focusses on the curl.
Cheers
Ant

Vincent: Thanks for putting the poem in perspective. The "all/to/gather" is intentional, but maybe I'm doing too much here-- it's the piglets/lines gathering, as well as slantwise an "all together."

The "blue milken dreaminess" is from Galway Kinnell (as is the the other italicized stanza). It is the sow's dreaminess as she gives "milk" to her piglets-- which are of course the lines of a poem she is birthing.

B: I did make one comment, on "Mappa Mundi." I'll have to look to see where I can introduce myself. The poem is (as noted above) about poetic creation). I rather liked reversing the metaphor-- men are, according to Karen Horney and Muriel Rukeyser, always giving birth to poems and things-- but breast-feeding the making of a poem is not, to my knowledge, overworked. I get it, though, that you don't like the idea.

anaisais:Thanks for your comments. I'll think about ending with the runts. Don't know how I can get creating a poem in, though.

Ant:Afraid I can't take credit for the curl. It's Kinnell. Will think further about where to end.

What I'd like most of all is a better title. Suggestions, any one?

Not to be anal about it, but the site rules do request 2 crits per one poem. A false economy in my opinion, but them's the breaks.

Just to be clear, it's not this specific idea that I find overworked, but that poems about poems in general are pretty dull. I have no idea what you mean about "men [...] giving birth to things". By "men" do you mean "man" as in humankind? If not, I don't how it relates to your poem.

B.

I was asked by B to post this online instead of privately. I hadn't wanted to start an off-poem fight so didn't. But here's what I said re: his comment on not understanding what I meant by "men:"

From time immemorial men-- as in the male sex--have been giving birth to nations, to ideas, to light, life and whatever. I find it energizing when women do. We live in a gendered society, like it or not. A mammary life to poems is part of that. The recent Nobel poet Transtromer didn't think birthing-poem poems were shoddy. That doesn't mean you shouldn't dislike birthing poems. It does mean I won't dismiss them offhand.

Best,
Barbara

I don't think there was any suggestion of a "fight" Barbara!

My basic opinion remains the same: poems about poems/poetry/poetic creation/etc, are generally dull. Your poem is no exception, to me, regardless of what a Nobel laureate, past or present, might think. The subject can occasionally be made interesting, but in this case it isn't. For me. One reader. Gender politics do absolutely nothing to change my opinions as a reader.

B.

I'd be surprised if anyone did think birthing-poems (as in poems about giving birth) were shoddy. I'm unclear what you mean by 'A mammary life to poems is part of that.'

I think the point perhaps that's being made is that poems about writing (particularly about writing other poems) have been done to death and unless very unusual can be a bit dull. In this case, I found the idea of writing about the sow actually more interesting than the idea of using it as an analogy to writing. And if you did want to make that analogy, it would be more effective to do it somehow by hinting at it, rather than actually bringing the writing process in.

A common idea in poetry is using an extended metaphor to signify something else - the best poems manage not to actually say what the metaphor stands for - the reader does that.

Ros

Ros wrote: I found the idea of writing about the sow actually more interesting than the idea of using it as an analogy to writing.

Exactly. Which is the point I'd hoped to make originally.

Thanks all.