The Humbling Homeless

This is a serious poetry forum not a "love-in". Post here for more detailed, constructive criticism.
Post Reply
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:27 am

The Humbling Homeless

With impatient haste
And heartless mood
I pass a pitiful beggar
On Waterloo Road.
Callous yet cautious,
I quicken my pace
To avoid this sorry heap
Of outcast waste.

The stench of alcohol and urine
Punctures the evening sky.
I glance at his warped face,
And meet his lifeless eyes.
From tobacco-cracked mouth,
With garbled diction,
The tramp murmurs words
Of kindly recognition.

Suddenly he beckons me,
As an old friend might,
With words of welcome,
Hushed and polite.
“You scroungin’, too?”
He says in a muted sigh.
An agitated “No”
Is my insulted reply.

“Forgive me,” he mutters,
With regretful modesty,
“I meant no offense
To you, friend. Honestly.

Just,
‘Cos if you was,
I’d’ve given you my sandwich.”

______________________________________________

Haven't written in a while (or visited the forum, for that matter, to my shame! :oops: ), so comments on this one would be appreciated!

Cheers

Al
pseud
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 2862
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:19 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:15 am

Aye alex welcome back, how have you been?

I liked the sentiment of this one, though, I'm not convinced you pulled it off. For one, the title says way too much, gives away much. I saw the end coming before I clicked. By Stanza, here it goes -

S1 - the adjectives don't really pack the power you want. "Inpatient haste" is redundant. So is "outcast waste." "Pitiful," "heartless," "sorry,"...they seem too generic.

S2 - pretty good. If't were mine, I'd start with it. It opens the whole poem well. ("lifeless eyes" seems a bit prepackaged.)

S3 - the rhyme gets a little overdone. It doesn't read like a normal story, especially the last two lines.

S4 - "regretful modesty" is kind of telling. Aren't there more creative ways to show someone regret and modesty? Facial expressions, perhaps?

I think this needs more of the spirit of stanza 2.

Just my thoughts. Again welcome back,

Caleb
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:33 am

Hey Caleb,

Thanks for your honesty. It's much appreciated. I had SO much trouble trying to come up with a title for this one. I tried loads - none of them seemed to work. And I agree that far too much is given away. Any suggestions?

S1 - do you think I should just ditch this stanza? It's a bit redundant, isn't it. It doesn't really add much to the poem.

S2 - I agree with you. This should open the poem. And I'll rethink "lifeless eyes" - you seem to pick out all the things I have trouble with while writing! At least I know it's not right...right?

S3 - it's a bit trite, isn't it? I wasn't comfortable with this stanza at all, but it's essential to the poem (or at least the tramp's question is), so I didn't want to just chuck it. mmmmmmmmm...will rethink. Maybe I should loosen up the rhyme and break up the lines a bit.

S4 - mmmmm...yes...another problem area when writing it. I spent about 5 minutes trying to find something to put in front of "modesty". Guess that was 5 mins wasted. I like your idea of a facial expression to express modesty. I'll have a think.

Looking at it now, with your viewpoint, it's very predictable, isn't it. And I think alot of it's down to the title. I'd really appreciate a suggestion.

As ever, thanks for your input.

Can't sleep, so I'll probably get straight on it.

Cheers

Al
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:52 am

how's this?

<still no decent title>

The stench of alcohol and urine
Punctures the dwindling daylight.
I glance at his warped face,
And meet his jaundiced eyes.
From tobacco-cracked mouth,
With garbled delivery,
The tramp murmurs words
Of kindly recognition.

He slowly raises his
Scrawny, pock-marked arm
And beckons me over
With gaunt fingers.
“You scroungin’, too?”
He says in a muted sigh.
Unsure how to reply, I
Simply answer
“No”.

“Forgive me,” he mutters,
With pouting modesty,
“I meant no offence,
Friend.

Just,
‘Cos if you was,
I’d’ve given you my sandwich.”



Comments, Caleb and/or others?

Al
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:24 pm

bumpety bump
User avatar
barrie
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 6069
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:13 am
Location: lake district

Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:49 pm

I like it - what else can I say? Reminds me of Manchester.
Asbo1
Productive Poster
Productive Poster
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: North West UK

Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:13 pm

I liked it too.Not just sentiment but execution too.For some reason the tramp voice sounded dead plummy in my head.Sort of upper class hobo begging for Earl Grey money! Sorry.
God told me to!
User avatar
azathoth
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:07 am
Location: i don't know, but i'll be back soon

Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:05 am

not bad second version, the "Simply answer" part seems very awkwards though, and the second to last stanza reads awkwardly as well, otherwise, i really like the idea of the poem.
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:11 pm

Cheers guys,

Asbo - yeah, i get what u mean. he does sound kinda posh for a tramp doesn't he. maybe that needs to be thought through a bit. or maybe he's actually just a successful man who's lost it all on the horses? :roll:

Aza - mmmmmm. the "simply answer" bit. mmmmmmm. not sure what to say really. maybe I'll replace simply with something more creative. i think the point about the penultimate stanza ties in with Asbo's whole posh tramp thing. will reconsider.

any further ideas on the title? i'm really stuck on what to call this...thing!

mmmmmm. :?

al
k-j
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 3004
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:37 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:37 pm

Hi. I loved the first four lines of this; the "mood" / "Waterloo Road" half-rhyme is perfect. But then I see that you scrap it in the second version! Argh! Don't do that! I think you need ot look again at "pouting modesty" - it might be technically right but to me a pout is something you see on a sex-kitten, not a bum. Finally, the sentiment which seems to have found favour in most other comments jarred quite a bit with me. Just for once it would be nice to see a piece of fiction where the scary homeless guy wasn't misunderstood and didn't turn out to have a heart of gold. I'm sure there are just as many c*nts among the homeless population as there are among those of us with roofs over our heads.
User avatar
Thomas
Prolific Poster
Prolific Poster
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:40 pm
Location: n wales

Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:20 pm

Liked it alot a good piece. :)
Imagination is more important than knowledge,knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.
pseud
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 2862
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:19 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:37 pm

write a poem about homeless criminals??? You might as well write one about three-legged malnourished dogs who bite!

On second thought: that's not such a bad idea, and I'm not so sure the sentiment works. There's got to be some way to deliver the 'sandwich' line without it sounding like something out of Aesop's Fables...

Alex - meh. Only goes to show you critiques aren't bulletproof. Mine especially. Makes your job maddening unfortunately. kj is a fine critic and a finer poet; maybe he is right about S1 and rhyme...

- Caleb
Sean Kinsella
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:59 am
Location: Chesterfield
Contact:

Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm

ALEX

I like the original version, and actually I'd keep the title, but commence the poem from the 3rd verse...that just seems to work for me, because those are the most beautiful lines therein:-

'Suddenly he beckons me,
As an old friend might,
With words of welcome,
Hushed and polite.
"You scroungin' too?"
He says in a muted sigh
An agitated "No"
Is my insulted reply.'

You could find another verse from somewhere if you like, or leave it at that frankly...it would speak volumes.

Up to you.

BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:20 am

OK, this is how I see your criticisms so far, I think:

Pseud:
- original S1 too trite? obvious? unoriginal? even redundant? (I agree, that's why I ditched it)
- needs more of the spirit of S2 (that was my favourite stanza too, especially after re-working)

Asbo:
- tramp too posh! (that definately needs to be sorted out - i need to find his voice, even if that's quite stereotypical)

Aza:
- "simply answer" bit awkward (not sure I entirely agree, but it doesn't seem to quite fit with the rest of the poem)
- new S3 awkward (think this fits in with the whole posh tramp thing - I'll rethink it when I sort out the tramp's true voice)

kj:
- keep original S1 (hmmm. see, this is a real problem bcos unless I totally redo it, it's just going to sound corny, but i take your 'mood'/'road' point - maybe I'll keep some of it)
- "pouting modesty" not right (fair enough. I was working on the facial expression thing as suggested by pseud, but I got it wrong. will try that one again)
- kind homeless too cliched (yup! what about a blunt curse or something at the end?)

Pseud (again):
- does sentiment work? (again, would an unexpected jolt at the end fix this?)
- different way to deliver 'sandwich' line (not quite sure what you really meant. what's wrong with it, exactly?)
- keep original S1? (again, I'd have to completely redo it, but if it's worth it I will)

Sean:
- keep title (as pseud said, it does kinda give the game away. I was thinking today...what about something like 'Mistaken' or 'Assumptions' which kinda works both ways?)
- start from S3 (hmmm....no. S2 was my favourite and I think captures more of the feel of the poem. S3 is admittedly awkward and the 1st version was too rhymy, not a good start to a supposedly high-impact poem)


So, as pseud said, I'm up shit creek w/o a paddle really. not sure what to do with this one. I'll have another go and see what ppl think. please check back and give me your thoughts. but feel free to respond to this post as well.

cheers guys

al


p.s. thanx for your comments, too, barrie and thomas. much appreciated.
pseud
Perspicacious Poster
Perspicacious Poster
Posts: 2862
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:19 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:10 am

well at least now you know you're up creek w/o a paddle.

No seriously, this whole episode got you thinking, that's the key I'd think. To make it a bit simpler: my 'sandwich' line comment was this - cut "jus, cos if you was" - it gets straight to the point.

As for the rest, do as you please. Only as you please.

- Caleb
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:20 am

i think you're right about cutting that bit. gets to the point quicker.

any thoughts on the other stuff/problems mentioned?

al
User avatar
alex69williams
Persistent Poster
Persistent Poster
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: London, UK - the gateway to anonymity

Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:18 am

Ooooooooook, I think I'm getting there. I've taken into consideration everything that's been said. I've even included the original first stanza again, after much re-working. I've also decided (provisionally) to call it "Misguided Assumption". Might sound corny. Dunno. Let me know your thoughts.


In a hunched haste
And melancholy mood
I pass the proverbial beggar
On Waterloo Road.

The stench of alcohol and urine
Punctures the dwindling daylight.
I glance at his warped face
And meet his jaundiced eyes.
From tobacco-cracked mouth,
With garbled delivery,
The tramp murmurs words
Of kindly recognition.

He slowly raises his
Scrawny, pock-marked arm
And beckons me over
With gaunt fingers.
“You scroungin’, too?”
He says in a muted sigh.
Unsure how to reply, I
Guiltily answer
“No”.

“Sorry, mate,” he mutters,
With impulsive modesty,
“Didn’t mean no insult.
Just,

I’d’ve given you my sandwich.”


Cheers,
al
Post Reply