Poetry Forum

Does no posts mean its liked or disliked? I never know.

I'm afraid this one didn't do much for me. I disliked the first couple of lines straight away because your mood likened to rainy weather just seems too much of a cliche. It doesn't seem to be a poem as much as a random collection of thoughts, and the only attempt to use the sound of language occurs in the consistently/persistently bit...sorry.

Have you tried Haliborange?
Not a great way to commit suicide but they may just brighten up an otherwise dull day.

Hi Lemur,

Thanks for your post and your comments. I agree with you about the cliche in the first couple of lines but not really that its not a poem but a collection of thoughts. Do I have to rhyme for it to be poetry?

Rach

Hi Asbo,

Haliborange? Is that a vitamin drink? I've heard of it but never had it.



Rach

It most definately does not have to rhyme! Even here how many rhyming poems have you seen? It is not that there are rules with poetry but there is a difference between poetry and prose. The poet uses poetic techniques of some sort- so you're not miles off by asking about rhyme... Someone else will be able to explain this better than I can and I'll be interested to read everyone's opinion on what defines a poem.
Love Rachel

Hi Rachel (feels like im talking to myself now lol),

Thanks for your comments. I think I need some educating really. I get confused as to what prose actually is and how it differs from a story and have often found myself wondering what makes a poem a poem apart from the obvious.

Rach

Prose is basically any chunk of ordinary text. A newspaper article is prose, a novel is written in prose, the manual for your toaster is prose (although I can't understand why they don't write manuals in verse). Prose can of course be inspiring, alive, a joy to read, every bit as much as poetry can - the main difference is it doesn't have line-breaks. Prose can have internal rhyme, alliteration, and any number of other "poetic techniques" - if it has lots of these then you might call it a "prose-poem". But it doesn't have to have any of these things.

At the same time, just having line-breaks doesn't make something a poem. I couldn't write
like this, but with line
breaks inserted
and expect people to take it seriously
as a poem
because why should they? There's no music in the language - no sound-play, no rhythm, no reason for the line-breaks.

So what? Well, I think what the other Rachel is saying is that this piece of yours - and lots of your pieces are like this to a greater or lesser extent - seem more like prose than poetry. Sure, there are line-breaks, but if you take them out, what you have:

"My mood rains consistently, persistently onto my day, insensitively lurking; an unwanted visitor. “Not today thank you. I’m not interested” has no effect, I’m starting think that it’s deaf!"

isn't really any different. It doesn't lose anything. It's not a bad bit of writing, but if you want to write poetry you have to make the words chime a bit more - give them a beat, or some other characterstic that makes the words themselves have an affect in a way they wouldn't if they were just prose, like what I'm writing now. Anyway I'm sure someone will disagree with me on this one. This seems to be a subject that pisses people off no end, although I'm not sure why. If it doesn't have wheels, or seats, or an engine, or a chassis, or a body, it's not a car, is it? It might be a bloody good toaster though.

Rach-

I agree with Mr. kj, though I will chime in and say this is not a unique criticism. Most free-verse writers have to deal with this "it's just prose" objection at some point.

- Caleb

Free verse is poetry without a fixed or natural rhythm. I'm not saying that free verse is just prose chopped up: it isn't. Free verse makes use of other poetic techniques. I'm not talking about free verse at all. I'm talking about the difference between prose, in which the feel of the language may be divorced from, and secondary to, the meaning of the words, and poetry, in which it may not. You can disagree with this, but then you have to give some other explanation of what the difference is.

I know you said you agreed with me, and I'm not (particularly) trying to start arguments here, but I just don't see what free verse or any other sub-species of verse has to do with it. Free verse is still verse, damn it! And now a tangent: we live in a world where no-one's willing to define anything, no-one wants to pin anything down! And that's why so much poetry fails - because that's what great poetry succeeds at! Hitting the G-spot! Not fumbling around in the dark, shy and noncomittal!

Right I'm going down to the bar.

For as passionate as you're arguing, I really wish there was something significant to disagree on. But there's not.

Here's what free-verse has to do with it: that's what Rach was attempting. Alas, the poem is a focused narrative in its current form, which makes it more prosy - which is exactly what you said, and I agreed - nevertheless I was merely trying to cheer her up by pointing out that the prose objection was common, because free-verse is so free it is hard to define. Since people usually won't agree on what exactly constitutes the difference between, say, prose-poetry and free-verse (are they synonyms? I surely don't know...), most people just keep it simple and only recognize rhyme and meter as stock poetic devices. It's wrong, I think, but people do it all the time, and on whose authority are we going to denounce them?

- Caleb

Hi Kj

Thanks for all your help there. That's helped me out. I'm going to have to seriously rethink how I write then.

Pseud,

Thanks for trying to cheer me up and for your help too.

Rach

Hi Rach,

To answer your original question, no, as others have said it doesn't have to rhyme, or at least, not in the traditional cat/mat/sat sort of way. Opinions differ but for me what makes a poem distinct from prose is the wielding of language, the use of a range of poetic techniques (assonance, alliteration, metaphor, imagery), and above all, whether it has a mystical quality that I think all poems should strive for (not necessarily true of prose).

For me the test is, is this something somebody would want to recite to themselves in the dark to comfort themselves when they're scared/lonely/bored? Sorry if that sounds a bit lofty but in my opinion poems should aspire to this.

If you think you're struggling to know the difference for yourself, and as you say, you seem to tend more naturally towards the prose poem, why don't you try setting yourself a strict poem/rhyming exercise as a starting point, and then edit and adapt it to a more relaxed format?

Hope this helps...I keep meaning to try writing a prose poem myself, so I'll give you a shout when I do!

Julie

Hi Julie,

Thanks for that. That's a great idea. I'll do that. Thanks for your encouragement. Was thinking of giving up writing poems altogether, but Im sure i will feel better soon.

Rach

Definitely don't give up! The main thing is you're writing and actively seeking constructive criticism, which is a great starting point .

True but if most of my work has been crap, Im not doing very well. I thought I was quite good at poetry but obviously not. Oh well. Lol. Just feeling down at the mo. I will cheer up. Thanks for your encouragement.

Rach

Good writing's good writing, I would think. Prose/poetry/freeverse thing aside - who cares what we classify it?

If you ask me, this post is part of a larger work. Something like a daily journal entry.

Hi Caleb,

Yeah you're right there. Thanks. Definitely could be expanded into something larger.

Rach

UNCHAINED SOUL

The first line is quite enchanting

"My mood permeates consistently, persistently into my day"

Then..

"insensitively lurking like an unwanted visitor"

find a tighter image for the end of that line and re-work the remaining two, as they fall away slightly.

BEST REGARDS
SEAN KINSELLA

Hi Sean,

Thanks for your comments and advice. I'm going to tackle it again.

Rach

This is more like it. A great improvement, I think. It can now stand on its own. Do others agree?

Hi Caleb,

Thanks. I'm alot happier with it this time.

Rach