Four Sunday Gods -v3

[ray miller]

Version 3

One paraglider possesses
the sky, suspended by witchcraft.

Two bracketed bear a message
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbles burst from the surface
as hillsides form a champagne glass.

Four Sunday Gods rising versus
a world that’s deflated and flat.



Paragliders

One paraglider possesses
the sky, suspended by witchcraft.

Two bracketed bear a message
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbling up to the surface
between hillsides a champagne glass.

Four Sunday Gods rising versus
a world that’s deflated and flat.

Original

One paraglider possesses
the sky, suspended by witchcraft.

Two bracketed bear a message
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbling to the surface
of a shimmering champagne glass.

Four Sunday Gods rise up versus
a world that’s deflated and flat.

[Macavity]

Flummoxed by this one Ray, but still enjoyed elements, such as the paraglider/witchcraft and the use of flat. My reading is a celebration of uplifting experiences/images that light a downer world. Or perhaps it was the Villa result!

best

mac

[CalebPerry]

One paraglider possesses
the sky, hanging by witchcraft.

Two bracketed bear a message
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbling to the surface
of a shimmering champagne glass.

Four Sunday Gods rise up versus
a world that’s deflated and flat.

I don't understand the poem either, but it should be said that it is well within current poetry trends. In fact, I wrote a blog article identifying five qualities of modern poetry: (1)󠀠 prosaic sound, (2) vague or obscure meaning, (3) grandiose or profound language, and/or (4) mystical or ethereal language, and/or (5) startling images. This poem ticks many of those boxes.

This isn't a criticism, actually. Hitting the reader/listener with a series of compelling images is like candy to the mind and ear, so I understand why it has become a trend. To that extent, I think this poem isn't bad.

Let me harken back to a favorite topic of mine: the dreaming mind. If you notice your thoughts as you are falling asleep, you will notice that they are chaotic, with images strung together illogically. I say "illogically", but I think that what's happening is that the mind is associating the images by feeling rather than by logic, which is how we think when we are awake. Poems like this duplicate that kind of dream thinking. In other words, to Ray (at least) the disparate images make some kind of emotional sense, and hopefully will to the reader as well.

For me, "hanging" conjures up that form of execution. Substituting the word "suspended" will give that stanza a lighter sound, and also give you 8 syllables, which is apparently what you are aiming for. In the fifth line, adding "up" after "bubbling" will give you 8 syllables.

[ray miller]

Thanks both. I guess I'll never get this to work. Your reading is about right, mac, but the 4 Sunday gods are meant to be paragliders. That's not coming over, is it?
Perry, I think I've been dreaming all my life. I could take issue with some of your remarks but I'm too tired. I had "suspended" instead of "hanging" then decided the rhythm wasn't right. Now I look again I've decided I was right first time. I don't want "bubbling up" when I've "rise up" 2 lines later.

[Macavity]

I did equate the paragliders to the gods on my original reply, but rereading this morning I wasn't sure, so edited out that part of the response. You could edit L7 to Four paragliders....

[CalebPerry]

Oh.

One ... Two ... Three ... Four. Those are paragliders!

What threw me was this line:

"Two bracketed bear a message"

... which I didn't understand at all. And also the third stanza that mentions a champagne glass.

I really didn't intend my previous comments as a criticism. I thought you were trying your hand at the modern trend that I described, and I thought, "Why not?" If I were to abandon my determination that every line of my poems make sense, and started throwing in some vague language, I'm quite sure my poetry would be more popular.

If you leave the poem just as it is, there are people who will think it profound and find great depths and symbolism in it. The irony is this: Poetry which always makes sense must be written with great skill lest it sound awkward or mundane. Poetry which is obscure takes less skill because the reader won't understand it anyway, so the author doesn't have to take great pains to be both creative and clear. When poetry is obscure, readers withdraw from trying to understand it and just focus on the images. There are poets who have become famous writing obscure poetry. Their fans assume that the poet has some deep insight that they lack, and so they don't question why it doesn't make sense, whereas it is easy to question (and criticize) writing that is easily understandable.

I'm being serous. The poem sounds great just as it is. People will love the images and the sounds, and they'll ponder about its meaning, and before you know it you'll be famous. If you work too hard to clarify the meaning, the poem will lose its magic. It's the obscurity that makes this poem intriguing.

[ray miller]

Thanks mac. I might just call it Paragliders.
Thanks Perry. Criticism is fine, it's what we come here for, I suppose. I'm not writing things that are deliberately obscure, but I'm also trying not to state the obvious. To be interesting, entertaining, enlightening, is what we all strive for, I guess, something between the straightforward and the baffling.
Anyway, the champagne glass is a poor image and maybe one day I'll think of something better.

[ray miller]

Thanks mac. I might just call it Paragliders.
Thanks Perry. Criticism is fine, it's what we come here for, I suppose. I'm not writing things that are deliberately obscure, but I'm also trying not to state the obvious. To be interesting, entertaining, enlightening, is what we all strive for, I guess, something between the straightforward and the baffling.
Anyway, the champagne glass is a poor image and maybe one day I'll think of something better.

[ray miller]

I had another go with the champagne glass thing. Probably made it worse.

[NotQuiteSure]

.
Hi ray,
any chance of a few more commas?
Could you bare to switch the order of lines 5 and 6?
(What's the difference between 'bubbling up' and 'rising'?)

With the understanding that I'm likely missing the point here,
I did find it interesting to read this in reverse, from 4 to 1
(though couldn't tell you where that leads either )


Regards, Not


.

[Macavity]

Like the new title Ray, directs the reader.

Three bubbling up between hillsides,
shimmering in a champagne glass.

Just a thought. Either way seeing the image more with the hillsides.

[CalebPerry]

Paragliders [I liked the old title -- less direct, but more grand]

One paraglider possesses
the sky, suspended by witchcraft. [great stanza]

Two bracketed bear a message [language feels garbled to me, which is why I didn't get it -- what does "two bracketed" mean? what is the "message"?]
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbling up to the surface [paragliders bubbling up?]
between hillsides a champagne glass. [don't get the champagne image -- it would help if you would explain your metaphor]

Four Sunday Gods rising versus ["against" would be more dramatic than "versus"]
a world that’s deflated and flat. [how about "a deflated and flat world"?]

One interesting thing you are doing is you are counting the paragliders in a cumulative way (not sure how to say this). You say, one ... two ... three ... four ... instead of ... one ... one ... one ... one. So the first paraglider is mentioned in the remaining three stanzas, and the second paraglider is also mention in the remaining two stanzas. For that reason, your descriptions in all four stanzas must somehow be consistent and apply to all the paragliders.

Your task, it seems to me, is to clarify the meaning without losing the dramatic and grand quality of the language, which is quite pleasing. The more regular the meter/rhythm, the better the poem will sound.

Four Sunday Gods

One paraglider possesses
the sky, suspended by witchcraft.

Two speak of the love of freedom,
and the heavens are autographed.

Three dodge and twirl in a drunken dance
like bubbles in a champagne glass.

Four Sunday Gods rise against a flat
and unimaginable world.

Sorry -- I've been dry lately, and your poem inspired me. My language is clear, but it may remove some of the mystery from the poem.

[TrevorConway]

Hi Ray,

I preferred the original title. It was a fantastic title, and the repetition of are gliders between the title and first line here doesn't sit well, I think. The grammar of the bracketed line feels a bit off, hence it was quite unclear to me, two. I'm guessing you mean that the shape of the two paragliders resembles brackets in a sentence. If so, "two bracketed a distant cloud / scribbled thin as an autograph"?

One paraglider possesses [Maybe "possesses" could be improved, and I think "the sky" could be on this line instead]
the sky, suspended by witchcraft. [Not buying the direct metaphor; even "as if by" would be better]

Two bracketed bear a message
and the heavens are autographed.

Three bubbling [or "bubble"?] up to the surface [the surface of what? Confusing]
between hillsides a champagne glass. [Again, seems like a metaphor which doesn't fully work: "between a hillside gap thin as a champagne glass"?]

Four Sunday Gods rising versus [or "rise against"?]
a world that’s [delete "that's"?] deflated and flat. [Some foreshadowing of why it's "deflated" would be good. Feels sudden. Seems you mean it figuratively, in relation to emotion rather than physical deflation and flatness]

I'm with you in this poem, Ray. You grabbed my attention, held it and entertained me. Well done.

T

[ray miller]

Thanks all for the comments.
Not - where do you think commas should go? I might put one after "surface", otherwise I think you must be suggesting commas after One, Two, Three, Four? I'd thought about that, but I'm not keen.
I wouldn't change the order of the lines because there is a rhyme scheme, which seems to have gone unnoticed by everyone.
The reference to bubbling up is because of the imagined champagne glass.

Perry - Two bracketed maybe should be Two bracketing. I'm imagining something like this (P) (P).
I see the space between hillsides as like a champagne glass and the paragliders as bubbles. I could express it better than I have.
What you say about all the descriptions having to be consistent I don't go along with. If you can imagine 3 men as bubbles you can surely imagine 4 men as gods.

Trevor - I much prefer the original title. I'm trying to make the poem clearer. Maybe I shouldn't.

shape of the two paragliders resembles brackets in a sentence. Yes, that's pretty much it.

[ray miller]

I've decided that the 5th line will now read Three bubbles burst from the surface
I'm having difficulty with the next line. I need glass, not necessarily champagne. So I'm thinking something like - for the hillsides curve like a glass. But better than that!

[Macavity]

I like the specifics of the champagne glass. I can visualise that formed by the hillsides, and there's the sense of celebration.

[NotQuiteSure]

.
Hi ray,
I thought perhaps you were missing a pair of commas either side of bracketed.

Regards, Not

.

[ray miller]

You're right, mac. You may be right, Not. Still thinking on that.

[Macavity]

Three bubbles burst from the surface
as hillsides form a champagne glass.

The edits of from/form work for me Ray. I think, once the reader has got to know the poem, the title delivers too.

[ray miller]

Thanks, mac.