The Collar
Bells send time onto the hillside after me.
It carries on the wind like a deep-throated crow,
presses silence away from the spire and cottages,
weaving between morning’s hawthorn and trees
as I sit here on a fallen birch. Icicles sway
on the firs. A hundred colours of sky
spill through glassy prisms, decorate this eiderdown
of snow beneath my feet. As each light reflects
another bird searches the woods.
.......................................................He has sent them,
released their coiled wings from a cage
of fingers. Little black swells that grow
the closer they come. This man in his tower, pulling firm
on the ropes, is masterful-- cracking sky like a pale
blue shell, pushing his shackle of beaks through.
Their caws will find me. Rough twines of string
under his hands are estuaries I reveal
as I brush the frosted bark. This tangle of rivers,
aged and earthy, leads back to him. I taste them
in the air like the bread he broke on my tongue--
dry and clean, as villagers lit a bonfire
in the Square. I heard them singing
as we spoke in the annexe. I told him the wax
on the candle was me-- each time he burned
the wick, my blood coursed the sides, over his table.
He drew warmth into a hungry mouth, tried to catch
the perfumed curl of smoke leaving him
and pinched out the flame. I remember his body
moving across floorboards to find me, the same way
he searches now-- desperate and wanting. He calls
through this stillness of winter, but I will not go.
(is there a better way to do indents?)
The Collar -- first draft
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kozmikdave
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 2185
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:36 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Gidday
I'm trying to keep my head down, but this poem cannot go un-remarked-about. So far I like this best of all your poems I've read. It took me a few reads to get it, and I'm still not sure I understand it all, but the images are wonderful and the words flow like hot wax.
Conjures up images of a brief past relationship with God or a vicar - I suspect the former.
I can't help with the indents much. In the lyrics section I have used a STOP followed by spaces, but your solition of whitening the dots is cool too. I suspect Swing will know as he managed to get a hyperlink embedded and someone else (can't remember who) had a discussion about using AMPERSANDS (&) together with ASCII numbers to get special characters (in this case long dashes), which I might add didn't work for me. But I'm sure it is possible. Using your method, you could write invisible lines if you could get the text the same colour as the background. (The mind burgles!
)
Great poem
Cheers
Dave
I'm trying to keep my head down, but this poem cannot go un-remarked-about. So far I like this best of all your poems I've read. It took me a few reads to get it, and I'm still not sure I understand it all, but the images are wonderful and the words flow like hot wax.
Conjures up images of a brief past relationship with God or a vicar - I suspect the former.
I can't help with the indents much. In the lyrics section I have used a STOP followed by spaces, but your solition of whitening the dots is cool too. I suspect Swing will know as he managed to get a hyperlink embedded and someone else (can't remember who) had a discussion about using AMPERSANDS (&) together with ASCII numbers to get special characters (in this case long dashes), which I might add didn't work for me. But I'm sure it is possible. Using your method, you could write invisible lines if you could get the text the same colour as the background. (The mind burgles!
)Great poem
Cheers
Dave
Nice
I like this Lia and Im surprised there is only one review
I can't really fault it -- some fine imagery and the enagaging narration
it reminds me of something, though I can't put my finger on it - lol
good one all the same
Arco
I like this Lia and Im surprised there is only one review
I can't really fault it -- some fine imagery and the enagaging narration
it reminds me of something, though I can't put my finger on it - lol
good one all the same
Arco
I agree with Dave & Arco - this is very good, and deserves notice.
Bells send time onto the hillside after me is a lovely start.
Possibly a comma after "cottages", not a full stop, and "eiderdown of snow", unusually for you, is a cliche.
He has sent them - sounds like Saruman!
cracking sky like a pale
blue shell, pushing his shackle of beaks through - very nice.
Probably "this tangle", rather than "these", so "leads" rather than "lead".
as villagers lit a bonfire
in the Square - now I'm getting Frankenstein.
Doesn't sound like any vicar I know, but beautifully described. I've complained about not being able to follow your narratives before, Lia, but I didn't have a problem with this. It's very very good.
David
Bells send time onto the hillside after me is a lovely start.
Possibly a comma after "cottages", not a full stop, and "eiderdown of snow", unusually for you, is a cliche.
He has sent them - sounds like Saruman!
cracking sky like a pale
blue shell, pushing his shackle of beaks through - very nice.
Probably "this tangle", rather than "these", so "leads" rather than "lead".
as villagers lit a bonfire
in the Square - now I'm getting Frankenstein.
Doesn't sound like any vicar I know, but beautifully described. I've complained about not being able to follow your narratives before, Lia, but I didn't have a problem with this. It's very very good.
David
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Swing of the sea
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:12 pm
- Location: Middlesex
This is a longish and quite ambitious poem. There is much to commend it and others have done so. Anyway time for "critique"! No one else has mentioned this so I will. It is the matter of your verbs. I'm trotting along nicely in your poem and then I have to swerve violently at some of your verbs. An example is:
"Rough twines of string
under his hands are estuaries I reveal
as I brush the frosted bark."
Apart from the "estuary" stretch, how do YOU reveal his hands?
Another example is
"He drew warmth into a hungry mouth, tried to catch
the perfumed curl of smoke leaving "
Was he sucking the hot smoke or would he have "sent" warmth into a hungry communicant's mouth? I don't know.
You then have "leaving" hanging intransitively which I thought was jarring.
One last micro-comment: Time and again I spot poems in this forum and elsewhere whose line breaks are decidedly peculiar. Frequently these breaks serve only to diminish the best lines in unnecessary end line gulps of air as if the poem were treading water miles from land with no lifeboat in sight. For example might you not have written this stanza like this?:
Rough twines of string under his hands
are estuaries I reveal, as I brush the frosted bark.
These tangle(s) of rivers, aged and earthy,
lead back to him. I taste them in the air
like the bread he broke on my tongue--
dry and clean, as villagers lit a bonfire
in the Square.
I heard them singing (as we spoke) in the annexe.
There's a pretty internal rhyme between air and Square which is given its due if you break on a caesura after Square! Also delete "as we spoke", it is surely redundant as the next line has "I told him".
There was somebody quoting Robert Byron on the radio this morning. He said he was after " a maximum of insight with a minimum of words". Good advice I reckon.
Thanks for the read of your atmospheric "Father Mckenzie" poem. (Eleanor Rigby)
DG
"Rough twines of string
under his hands are estuaries I reveal
as I brush the frosted bark."
Apart from the "estuary" stretch, how do YOU reveal his hands?
Another example is
"He drew warmth into a hungry mouth, tried to catch
the perfumed curl of smoke leaving "
Was he sucking the hot smoke or would he have "sent" warmth into a hungry communicant's mouth? I don't know.
You then have "leaving" hanging intransitively which I thought was jarring.
One last micro-comment: Time and again I spot poems in this forum and elsewhere whose line breaks are decidedly peculiar. Frequently these breaks serve only to diminish the best lines in unnecessary end line gulps of air as if the poem were treading water miles from land with no lifeboat in sight. For example might you not have written this stanza like this?:
Rough twines of string under his hands
are estuaries I reveal, as I brush the frosted bark.
These tangle(s) of rivers, aged and earthy,
lead back to him. I taste them in the air
like the bread he broke on my tongue--
dry and clean, as villagers lit a bonfire
in the Square.
I heard them singing (as we spoke) in the annexe.
There's a pretty internal rhyme between air and Square which is given its due if you break on a caesura after Square! Also delete "as we spoke", it is surely redundant as the next line has "I told him".
There was somebody quoting Robert Byron on the radio this morning. He said he was after " a maximum of insight with a minimum of words". Good advice I reckon.
Thanks for the read of your atmospheric "Father Mckenzie" poem. (Eleanor Rigby)
DG
Thank you very much, Dave.
'with God or a vicar' perhaps both, and it is briefly. I've only written a few poems on this topic, but I certainly enjoyed the storytelling in this one.. nice to let loose and take a break from my normal muddles
. I tried the dot followed by spaces, but couldn't get it to stick sadly. It would be really handy if there was a grey font wouldn't it, then the dots would vanish completely.
'AMPERSANDS (&) together with ASCII numbers'
.. I know I should understand this!
Arco, I'm glad you liked it. If you remember what it reminds you of, please let me know.. I'm very curious.
Thanks David, you made my day! Perhaps the longer story-like poems will suit me better..
I'll certainly take your suggestions with the comma and 'this tangle'.
I didn't realise 'eiderdown of snow' was a cliche, I knew blanket of snow was, hmm.. if I changed 'snow' to something like cold or white, would it still be too cliche? (I'm quite keen on using white)
You made me laugh with Saruman.. that works for me!
DG, thank you for such a detailed critique of my work.. it actually reminds me of an old forum I used to be on.
I certainly don't want you violently swerving at verbs! You've asked me how 'I' reveal his hands, but it was more to reveal the twines of string(from the bell-rope), and then, these twines being similar to the patterns in bark. I felt it was important that everything is reminding and pulling this person back the more they try to get away.
Yes, he was trying to suck in the hot smoke from the candle(trying to capture it). Surely him drawing the warmth in, indicates 'his' mouth?.. doesn't it? I did want to accentuate the 'leaving'.. I thought it would be better understood while the candle had a double-meaning and to give the reader a sense of parting at the same time. I gather, from what you've said, that I haven't managed to achieve this, and though I'm fond of the break, I'll certainly give it some better thought.
I'm going to be very stubborn about 'as we spoke'.. if I remove it will the reader know with clarity who it is that the woman is talking to?
Minimal words and conventional line-breaks. One of these I'm striving to achieve whilst the other I'm hell-bent on breaking! smiles .. it would be very good if I could have most readers follow what I've written with the minimal usage of words. Though I confess, I did enjoy writing this.
Thanks again DG, much to chew over.
Lia
'with God or a vicar' perhaps both, and it is briefly. I've only written a few poems on this topic, but I certainly enjoyed the storytelling in this one.. nice to let loose and take a break from my normal muddles
. I tried the dot followed by spaces, but couldn't get it to stick sadly. It would be really handy if there was a grey font wouldn't it, then the dots would vanish completely.'AMPERSANDS (&) together with ASCII numbers'
.. I know I should understand this!Arco, I'm glad you liked it. If you remember what it reminds you of, please let me know.. I'm very curious.
Thanks David, you made my day! Perhaps the longer story-like poems will suit me better..
I'll certainly take your suggestions with the comma and 'this tangle'.
I didn't realise 'eiderdown of snow' was a cliche, I knew blanket of snow was, hmm.. if I changed 'snow' to something like cold or white, would it still be too cliche? (I'm quite keen on using white)
You made me laugh with Saruman.. that works for me!
DG, thank you for such a detailed critique of my work.. it actually reminds me of an old forum I used to be on.
I certainly don't want you violently swerving at verbs! You've asked me how 'I' reveal his hands, but it was more to reveal the twines of string(from the bell-rope), and then, these twines being similar to the patterns in bark. I felt it was important that everything is reminding and pulling this person back the more they try to get away.
Yes, he was trying to suck in the hot smoke from the candle(trying to capture it). Surely him drawing the warmth in, indicates 'his' mouth?.. doesn't it? I did want to accentuate the 'leaving'.. I thought it would be better understood while the candle had a double-meaning and to give the reader a sense of parting at the same time. I gather, from what you've said, that I haven't managed to achieve this, and though I'm fond of the break, I'll certainly give it some better thought.
I'm going to be very stubborn about 'as we spoke'.. if I remove it will the reader know with clarity who it is that the woman is talking to?
Minimal words and conventional line-breaks. One of these I'm striving to achieve whilst the other I'm hell-bent on breaking! smiles .. it would be very good if I could have most readers follow what I've written with the minimal usage of words. Though I confess, I did enjoy writing this.
Thanks again DG, much to chew over.
Lia
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Swing of the sea
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:12 pm
- Location: Middlesex
I don't mean to champion convention. Is there a convention? What I mean is that in my opinion the line is an important thing in a poem, and it should be considered.
I like the lines
It carries on the wind like a deep-throated crow,
presses silence away from the spire and cottages.
Weaving between morning’s hawthorn and trees
as I sit here on a fallen birch. Icicles sway
Is there a purpose in breaking the stanza at "Icicles sway"? What is a stanza anyway in your poetry? Why DO poets break their lines and break stanzas unless it has an effect? But what? And what if the breaks diminish the movement of the poem or inter the words in structure? Are you a follower of concrete poetry for instance? All these questions and more exercise my mind.
DG
I like the lines
It carries on the wind like a deep-throated crow,
presses silence away from the spire and cottages.
Weaving between morning’s hawthorn and trees
as I sit here on a fallen birch. Icicles sway
Is there a purpose in breaking the stanza at "Icicles sway"? What is a stanza anyway in your poetry? Why DO poets break their lines and break stanzas unless it has an effect? But what? And what if the breaks diminish the movement of the poem or inter the words in structure? Are you a follower of concrete poetry for instance? All these questions and more exercise my mind.
DG
oh no no .. don't get me wrong, DG, when I say I like to break the rules regarding conventional line-breaks, I only meant 'I'. I have much respect for writers that break consistantly.. a wonderful flow of language can be created. I assure you, I only play now because I learnt (and painstakingly) about line-breaks and strophe-breaks in the past. It's just experimentation that I've been enjoying the last 3 or 4 years.
'And what if the breaks diminish the movement of the poem or inter the words in structure?'
.. sometimes, depending on the poem, I feel it's important to allow this to happen. Sometimes it creates a strange turn in language.. a question mark for the reader to puzzel over. Sometimes it can punch particular words out so the writer can get their point across or to insist the reader hang off certain words. I remember talking about this to a poet friend called Jim Doss, a good while ago, and how it can almost be like a game-- stopping and starting the reader when we choose. For instance..
with 'Icicles sway'.. I liked connecting each S for movement purposes(to link together) and to change direction, but also to let the reader sway just for a moment.
'Are you a follower of concrete poetry for instance?' .. I wasn't sure if this was a direct question. If it is, then you will have to explain 'concrete'
Have I explained myself at all well? probably not, and terribly
Lia
'And what if the breaks diminish the movement of the poem or inter the words in structure?'
.. sometimes, depending on the poem, I feel it's important to allow this to happen. Sometimes it creates a strange turn in language.. a question mark for the reader to puzzel over. Sometimes it can punch particular words out so the writer can get their point across or to insist the reader hang off certain words. I remember talking about this to a poet friend called Jim Doss, a good while ago, and how it can almost be like a game-- stopping and starting the reader when we choose. For instance..
with 'Icicles sway'.. I liked connecting each S for movement purposes(to link together) and to change direction, but also to let the reader sway just for a moment.
'Are you a follower of concrete poetry for instance?' .. I wasn't sure if this was a direct question. If it is, then you will have to explain 'concrete'
Have I explained myself at all well? probably not, and terribly
Lia
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ccvulture
DG
Some of your line edits are rather prosaic; some not. I like the interest of line breaks which give another meaning to the line itself, while clearly being part of the preceding/successive line as well.
Sounds like you're letting your bugbear dictate your diet, to me.
Peace
Stu
Some of your line edits are rather prosaic; some not. I like the interest of line breaks which give another meaning to the line itself, while clearly being part of the preceding/successive line as well.
Sounds like you're letting your bugbear dictate your diet, to me.
Peace
Stu
DG, I've been trying to work with your suggestion of breaking on 'air'. It's difficult because I want to keep the break on 'reveal'. I'll keep working on it.. perhaps removing or adding something might help it to fit.
Hello Stuart. Line-breaks are certainly fun to play around with.. the possibilities are endless (Can you tell how overly enthusiastic I am about this? lol). Any poems in the pipeline?
David, if you manage to catch this message I've been wondering if I should change 'I taste them' to 'I taste it' because of the changes made to 'this tangle' and 'leads'?
eg:
'.....................................This tangle of rivers,
aged and earthy, leads back to him. I taste it
in the air like the bread he broke on my tongue--'
Lia
Hello Stuart. Line-breaks are certainly fun to play around with.. the possibilities are endless (Can you tell how overly enthusiastic I am about this? lol). Any poems in the pipeline?
David, if you manage to catch this message I've been wondering if I should change 'I taste them' to 'I taste it' because of the changes made to 'this tangle' and 'leads'?
eg:
'.....................................This tangle of rivers,
aged and earthy, leads back to him. I taste it
in the air like the bread he broke on my tongue--'
Lia
I was quite intrigued by the narrative and impressed by the imagery, but I couldn't figure out the real relationship between the two characters. The penultimate verse is clearly sexual metaphor, yet pinching out the flame suggests resisting desires or ending the relationship - Then, again he is ' desperate and wanting' - but she, after the intial seduction, hides away - confusing. Maybe neither of them know what they want.
Couple of things - DG was right about 'leaving' You've left it hanging - it's pining for an object.
'These tangle of rivers,' - This tangle of rivers, or 'These tangles of rivers.
David mentioned Frankenstein -
'He calls
through this stillness of winter, but I will not go.'
- I definitely heard Dracula!
I still think that this is probably your best poem to date - haunting would be my description.
nice one
Barrie
Couple of things - DG was right about 'leaving' You've left it hanging - it's pining for an object.
'These tangle of rivers,' - This tangle of rivers, or 'These tangles of rivers.
David mentioned Frankenstein -
'He calls
through this stillness of winter, but I will not go.'
- I definitely heard Dracula!
I still think that this is probably your best poem to date - haunting would be my description.
nice one
Barrie
Hello Barrie,
It looks like I'm not going to get away with that 'leaving' am I! smiles .. I'll drop a 'him' after it. Perhaps that will explain what's happening a little better in the relationship. All sorts of desperate and unfrequented things going on in this, some of my own thoughts on religion too.. which I suppose accounts for the haunting/Saruman/Dracula image in some places.
Yes, I like 'this tangle'.. but do I change 'I taste them' aswell which follows shortly after?
Thanks very much for your comments. I'm surprised you think this is one of my best. I still feel I need to cut back on my use of similie and metaphor in future work though.
Lia
It looks like I'm not going to get away with that 'leaving' am I! smiles .. I'll drop a 'him' after it. Perhaps that will explain what's happening a little better in the relationship. All sorts of desperate and unfrequented things going on in this, some of my own thoughts on religion too.. which I suppose accounts for the haunting/Saruman/Dracula image in some places.
Yes, I like 'this tangle'.. but do I change 'I taste them' aswell which follows shortly after?
Thanks very much for your comments. I'm surprised you think this is one of my best. I still feel I need to cut back on my use of similie and metaphor in future work though.
Lia
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ccvulture
Nothing on paper Lia; I'm doing prelims on a long poem about Mount Snowdon, though!
Stu
Stu
Lia wrote: Hello Stuart. Line-breaks are certainly fun to play around with.. the possibilities are endless (Can you tell how overly enthusiastic I am about this? lol). Any poems in the pipeline?Lia
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ccvulture
Really really nice. Passive but haunting. Awash with heart.
I think the title's great, too.
Stu
I think the title's great, too.
Stu
Well everything seems to have been said, and well. I just wanted to let you know I'd read and very much enjoyed this.
in reference to our discussion, was this written with process 1, 2, or 3, or is it a secret?
in reference to our discussion, was this written with process 1, 2, or 3, or is it a secret?
James
I see, Barrie. It got a little bit confusing for a moment there. Thanks for clearing it up.
Thanks Stuart, and don't think I haven't seen a poem arrive on the board recently.. it's been read, I'll digest overnight and divulge tomorrow.
haha.. it was actually method 2, vesuvius, and thanks very much.
Lia
Thanks Stuart, and don't think I haven't seen a poem arrive on the board recently.. it's been read, I'll digest overnight and divulge tomorrow.
haha.. it was actually method 2, vesuvius, and thanks very much.
Lia
Sounds great.
Certainly meant to be heard.
I agree. Fascinating. I say affter, you say arfter (and glarssy and marsterful) - regional differences, eh. Genuinely sounds good though.
I might have a go myself, except that I fear the John Gilbert experience. (Also not sure about that business with the tights, Nicola.)
Certainly meant to be heard.
I agree. Fascinating. I say affter, you say arfter (and glarssy and marsterful) - regional differences, eh. Genuinely sounds good though.
I might have a go myself, except that I fear the John Gilbert experience. (Also not sure about that business with the tights, Nicola.)
Thanks Kris. I've listened to your readings a fair few times and noticed that you put emphasis on certain words or syllables in each line, as well as drawing certain words out to get the meaning across. You probably don't know you're doing it, but still, it's something I'd love to learn ..I suppose it's something that comes with practice..?
David,
I'm not sure what the John Gilbert experience is.. but now that you've said 'affter', I am far too curious and will have to hear a recording.
I didn't use the 'tights' method, but kept the mic slightly higher than my mouth so that there wasn't so much popping. The off putting thing for me was hearing my own voice each time I played it back.. very strange experience, but this is a whole other side of poetry I'm so keen to learn.
Yes, I definately think you should have a go.
Lia
David,
I'm not sure what the John Gilbert experience is.. but now that you've said 'affter', I am far too curious and will have to hear a recording.
I didn't use the 'tights' method, but kept the mic slightly higher than my mouth so that there wasn't so much popping. The off putting thing for me was hearing my own voice each time I played it back.. very strange experience, but this is a whole other side of poetry I'm so keen to learn.
Yes, I definately think you should have a go.
Lia
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ccvulture
Just listened to a couple of them! Including this one. Very mellow reading, Lia. Keep recording and listening to yourself and you'll learn to enjoy that emphasising performance of Kris's.
Meanwhile, I just discovered a basic sound editor on my pc so now I'm listening to Vizzavona as declaimed by a melancholy alien in a small church!
Stu
Meanwhile, I just discovered a basic sound editor on my pc so now I'm listening to Vizzavona as declaimed by a melancholy alien in a small church!
Stu