Kostas the bread man
arrived every morning
in a beat-up pick-up.
It was a good van once.
Exuberant tooting.
"Here comes Kostas!
I have bread
for sale!"
That first morning
I proffered, shyly,
psomi.
He started, like Charon
perceiving a living soul.
The wine-dark eyes
flashed briefly
out of their wrinkled cave.
One morning I flew
nearer the sun:
Mia fratzola psomi.
He almost laughed for pleasure.
But we never became
great friends,
exchanging addresses
and children's birthdays,
each enisled
by that strait for which
the words we had were
too frail a barque.
We saw him one night
in a tawdry bar,
rendered almost beast-like
by Circe's potions.
He didn't see us,
stared straight ahead,
stifling, now and again,
a nicotine-fingered yawn.
(psomi - bread; mia fratzola psomi - a loaf of bread)
Kostas the bread man
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camus
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David,
Much to like about this poem.
Primarily the message of how we view people, first impressions etc.
The second stanza revealing an almost jolly character - then the reality of the final stanzas, "rendered almost beast-like"
Still working on the ancient references and how they relate!
good read.
Much to like about this poem.
Primarily the message of how we view people, first impressions etc.
The second stanza revealing an almost jolly character - then the reality of the final stanzas, "rendered almost beast-like"
Still working on the ancient references and how they relate!
good read.
Camus said.
I thought you very English, which I know will annoy you, in your final analysis, of poor Kostas, after all, you were in his country and didn't speak the language....perhaps his mother had died, nicotine stained fingers?
Don't get it.
The classical references, which I do get, seem only to be there because you were in Greece and bare only a direct and perhaps superficial relevance to small situations.
This is not negative by the way, this is me investigating the poem.
Structure wise, was no more impressed I'm afraid. There's the odd internal rhyme to keep the ears pricked but the line breaks are not really line breaks at all, are they?
Fuck, perhaps I'm in a bad mood, hope you don't mind.
Minst
Which is true, and emphazised by second stanza. A little shallow I thought, yet understand the problem becomes ultimately more difficult when learning a new language.Primarily the message of how we view people, first impressions etc.
I thought you very English, which I know will annoy you, in your final analysis, of poor Kostas, after all, you were in his country and didn't speak the language....perhaps his mother had died, nicotine stained fingers?
Don't get it.
The classical references, which I do get, seem only to be there because you were in Greece and bare only a direct and perhaps superficial relevance to small situations.
This is not negative by the way, this is me investigating the poem.
Structure wise, was no more impressed I'm afraid. There's the odd internal rhyme to keep the ears pricked but the line breaks are not really line breaks at all, are they?
Fuck, perhaps I'm in a bad mood, hope you don't mind.
Minst
Kris, Minst, thanks for comments. A fair bit to think about.
No worries about the overall tone of your critique, either, Minst. Bracingly frank - it does us good from time to time to get a good critical kicking. Helps to avoid complacency. Tonic effect and all that.
My problem here is that I quite liked it, and still do, but clearly it's not doing what I thought it did. I need to have a good think about where I seem to have gone wrong.
Back to the drawing board!
Cheers
David
No worries about the overall tone of your critique, either, Minst. Bracingly frank - it does us good from time to time to get a good critical kicking. Helps to avoid complacency. Tonic effect and all that.
My problem here is that I quite liked it, and still do, but clearly it's not doing what I thought it did. I need to have a good think about where I seem to have gone wrong.
Back to the drawing board!
Cheers
David
This is a strong piece.
One or two things don't really work though. I agree with Minstrel on both of his main comments. The judgement of Kostos is awkwardly black and white. I like how you move him from one side to the other, but I think his 'bad' moment could be made a little different. Try and make him alienated and not negative. Perhaps you can manage that by removing
We saw him one night
in a tawdry bar,
rendered almost beast-like
by Circe's potions.
there are too many pejorative epithets there...
The last stanza is more neutral and difficult, as though it's a problem with both the narrator and the bread man. But it's warped by the previous stanza.
The classical allusions are strangely chosen too. Whilst some give the poem an oddly misplaced drama (I particularly like One morning I flew
nearer the sun: ), I can't quite see the need for them. As Minst said, they seem only to be there because you were in Greece and bare only a direct and perhaps superficial relevance to small situations. . They don't seem to add anything; try and find some sort of thematic context, or need for them.
There are one or two awkward phrases.
Exuberant tooting.
"Here comes Kostas!
I have bread
for sale!" -
I really don't like 'Exuberant tooting.' It doesn't feel exuberant. The snappy sentence does not, in any way, lift off what should be an active, happy line. The narrator seems to almost be falling asleep and noticing this exuberance. Perhaps remove the full-stop and give the line an 'and'. It isn't grammatically correct, but gives the passage pace.
But we never became
great friends,
exchanging addresses
and children's birthdays,
each enisled
by that strait for which
the words we had were
too frail a barque.
are both excellent. The second stanza's trope is subtle and original.
This poem has a great idea, set-up and theme. It just needs something more.
Dave
One or two things don't really work though. I agree with Minstrel on both of his main comments. The judgement of Kostos is awkwardly black and white. I like how you move him from one side to the other, but I think his 'bad' moment could be made a little different. Try and make him alienated and not negative. Perhaps you can manage that by removing
We saw him one night
in a tawdry bar,
rendered almost beast-like
by Circe's potions.
there are too many pejorative epithets there...
The last stanza is more neutral and difficult, as though it's a problem with both the narrator and the bread man. But it's warped by the previous stanza.
The classical allusions are strangely chosen too. Whilst some give the poem an oddly misplaced drama (I particularly like One morning I flew
nearer the sun: ), I can't quite see the need for them. As Minst said, they seem only to be there because you were in Greece and bare only a direct and perhaps superficial relevance to small situations. . They don't seem to add anything; try and find some sort of thematic context, or need for them.
There are one or two awkward phrases.
Exuberant tooting.
"Here comes Kostas!
I have bread
for sale!" -
I really don't like 'Exuberant tooting.' It doesn't feel exuberant. The snappy sentence does not, in any way, lift off what should be an active, happy line. The narrator seems to almost be falling asleep and noticing this exuberance. Perhaps remove the full-stop and give the line an 'and'. It isn't grammatically correct, but gives the passage pace.
But we never became
great friends,
exchanging addresses
and children's birthdays,
each enisled
by that strait for which
the words we had were
too frail a barque.
are both excellent. The second stanza's trope is subtle and original.
This poem has a great idea, set-up and theme. It just needs something more.
Dave
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camus
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I didn't see the problem with the "black and white" judgements, basically a tragic figure painted as such. Why embellish? What's with the PC approach?
As ever, each to their own.
Cheers
Kris
As ever, each to their own.
Cheers
Kris
Kris,
I thought what Minstrel said was interesting and I couldn't help but agree with him. The ending view seems a little judgemental. The fact that he's drunk and stained with nicotine seems to suggest to the reader that he's 'beast-like'. I thought this judgement was too simplistic, as though the reader and narrator is condemning him for drinking and being in a bar. It's a bit 'tut tut': ...perhaps his mother had died, nicotine stained fingers?.
Still, it's a really small point - 'Praps 'black and white' was the wrong phrase...
But then I suppose the narrator and poet isn't an immaculate conception is he? He's just as voiced, loaded and biased as the next - so it probably isn't much of a problem at all.
Dave
I thought what Minstrel said was interesting and I couldn't help but agree with him. The ending view seems a little judgemental. The fact that he's drunk and stained with nicotine seems to suggest to the reader that he's 'beast-like'. I thought this judgement was too simplistic, as though the reader and narrator is condemning him for drinking and being in a bar. It's a bit 'tut tut': ...perhaps his mother had died, nicotine stained fingers?.
Still, it's a really small point - 'Praps 'black and white' was the wrong phrase...
But then I suppose the narrator and poet isn't an immaculate conception is he? He's just as voiced, loaded and biased as the next - so it probably isn't much of a problem at all.
Dave
Gosh darn it. Explaining a poem seems like the plainest possible admission of failure there could be. It's like a joke - if you have to explain it, you told it wrong. And it seems I may have told this wrong.
Still, I just want to say that I didn't intend the ending to be judgemental. Hell, beast-like in a bar - we've all been there, surely? Something very like a stupor. That's all I was referring to - I wasn't dismissing the man and his existence at all. It was just that night.
See - I told you I told it wrong.
Mind you - The classical references, which I do get, seem only to be there because you were in Greece - well yeah. We were in Greece. That's why they're there. It's just a bit of bouzouki music. What did you expect, balalaikas?
David
Still, I just want to say that I didn't intend the ending to be judgemental. Hell, beast-like in a bar - we've all been there, surely? Something very like a stupor. That's all I was referring to - I wasn't dismissing the man and his existence at all. It was just that night.
See - I told you I told it wrong.
Mind you - The classical references, which I do get, seem only to be there because you were in Greece - well yeah. We were in Greece. That's why they're there. It's just a bit of bouzouki music. What did you expect, balalaikas?
David
Explaining a poem seems like the plainest possible admission of failure there could be
Oops, I've given you the wrong message!
I don't think the poem's a failure - my odd comment about being judgemental is so specific and pedantic because I couldn't find much else to criticise-
I think this is one of your best I've read here!
Sorry for the confusion David,
Dave
Oops, I've given you the wrong message!
I don't think the poem's a failure - my odd comment about being judgemental is so specific and pedantic because I couldn't find much else to criticise-
I think this is one of your best I've read here!
Sorry for the confusion David,
Dave
Reminds me of when I stayed in Greece and the melon / watermelon salesman would roll by at six or seven each morning, his call of "karpouzi karponi" ("watermelon / melon") ringing across the tinder-dry, half-built suburb like a call to prayer.
Fourth line seems redundant. Of course it was good once, so was everything old or beat-up. It obviously wasn't made like that, etc. I like "exuberant tooting" and I love Kostas's cry, diminishing over three lines. The "wine-dark" eyes make sense but are out of place here, a kenning in Hades. Your Icarus is appropriate and effective. I'd redraft S6 which is quite flat and bland. Why would you exchange kids' birthdays? I wouldn't (though perhaps I'm just a sociophobe, perhaps we all are, you and I and Kostas). But the metaphor in S7 is very good. I think you're OK with the Greek stuff up to here but "Circe's potions" is unnecessary; no problem with the portrayal though, I think he comes over as an ordinary bloke, which I guess was your intent, rather than some kind of ogre (or Cyclops) as others read him.
7/10.
Fourth line seems redundant. Of course it was good once, so was everything old or beat-up. It obviously wasn't made like that, etc. I like "exuberant tooting" and I love Kostas's cry, diminishing over three lines. The "wine-dark" eyes make sense but are out of place here, a kenning in Hades. Your Icarus is appropriate and effective. I'd redraft S6 which is quite flat and bland. Why would you exchange kids' birthdays? I wouldn't (though perhaps I'm just a sociophobe, perhaps we all are, you and I and Kostas). But the metaphor in S7 is very good. I think you're OK with the Greek stuff up to here but "Circe's potions" is unnecessary; no problem with the portrayal though, I think he comes over as an ordinary bloke, which I guess was your intent, rather than some kind of ogre (or Cyclops) as others read him.
7/10.