Wet lead
Forms the puffed out cheeks
Of blank babies, that pour,
Through pouted lips,
Rainwater that slaps the
Stone incline of the yard.
Streaked and white-eyed
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
The rising stallion sea.
A thousand tiny rivers,
Wrought and binding strap-work
Over hammered cobbles,
Fill the runnels and gutter
And choke the dull grid
With leaves
And high unshuttered windows
Of office workers
Shudder, bend the flaked
Reflection of beat-iron
Clouds, above
Piazza Veronese.
The Lead Fountain
-
camus
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:51 am
- antispam: no
- Location: Grimbia
- Contact:
It seems you are a poet who waits till he has something worth posting!
Always a joy.
That said, I found some of the punctuation difficult, plus not sure about the old cap or not to cap?
How about removing the first line? It seems stranded. If the structure were to include a short first line on each stanza, then it would work, but it seems unnecessarily top heavy if you see what I mean? Just aesthetics I suppose.
Would the title lead into the poem, and make sense?
The Lead Fountain
Forms the puffed out cheeks ?
Commas seem haphazard in places, just used as pauses! I'm not one to comment on that really! Just seems to joult in places, ok an example:
Of blank babies, that pour, - Is the comma after pour needed?
Finally can't help but comment on the allusions to High Windows, why not indeed!
nice one
Kris
Always a joy.
That said, I found some of the punctuation difficult, plus not sure about the old cap or not to cap?
How about removing the first line? It seems stranded. If the structure were to include a short first line on each stanza, then it would work, but it seems unnecessarily top heavy if you see what I mean? Just aesthetics I suppose.
Would the title lead into the poem, and make sense?
The Lead Fountain
Forms the puffed out cheeks ?
Commas seem haphazard in places, just used as pauses! I'm not one to comment on that really! Just seems to joult in places, ok an example:
Of blank babies, that pour, - Is the comma after pour needed?
Finally can't help but comment on the allusions to High Windows, why not indeed!
nice one
Kris
http://www.closetpoet.co.uk
I guess it’s through choice your capitalizing each new line?
This is very descriptive and easy to follow – and I think that’s a good thing….
This is very descriptive and easy to follow – and I think that’s a good thing….
Enjoyed the piece....thanks...Minstrel wrote:Wet lead
Forms the puffed out cheeks (not sure if you need ¨the¨)
Of blank babies, that pour,
Through pouted lips, (a bit cliche?)
Rainwater that slaps the
Stone incline of the yard.
Streaked and white-eyed
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
The rising stallion sea.
A thousand tiny rivers,
Wrought and binding strap-work
Over hammered cobbles,
Fill the runnels and gutter
and choke the dull grid
With Leaves
And high unshuttered windows(don’t think you need ¨and¨)
Of office workers
Shudder, bend the flaked
Reflection of beat-iron
Clouds, above
Piazza Veronese.
-
juliadebeauvoir
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 2083
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:42 am
- Location: East of Eden
Minstrel,
I agree with Kris--This was worth the wait. I thought the strongest verse was:
It really doesn't matter too much but I have to crit something!
Also didn't have a problem with 'pouting lips'. 'Blank babies' was an interesting way of describing the fountain statues.
I think the most interesting thing about your poem is that the inanimate is more animate than the referenced office workers. The fountain, the cobblestones, the windows and the sky. It is also interesting that all these things were there for ages--watching man hurry by.
The ending gave it a slightly exotic twist but this could be anywhere--from Italy to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Cheers,
Kim
I agree with Kris--This was worth the wait. I thought the strongest verse was:
I didn't have too much a problem with the capitalization at every line. But I wasn't sure why Leaves was capitalized. Or With and not 'and'.A thousand tiny rivers,
Wrought and binding strap-work
Over hammered cobbles,
Fill the runnels and gutter
and choke the dull grid
With Leaves
It really doesn't matter too much but I have to crit something!
Also didn't have a problem with 'pouting lips'. 'Blank babies' was an interesting way of describing the fountain statues.
I think the most interesting thing about your poem is that the inanimate is more animate than the referenced office workers. The fountain, the cobblestones, the windows and the sky. It is also interesting that all these things were there for ages--watching man hurry by.
The ending gave it a slightly exotic twist but this could be anywhere--from Italy to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Cheers,
Kim
"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you."
I've been swirling this around for a few hours now Minst, and can't quite come to a conclusion.
On the one hand, the writing here is just brilliant. You don't need me to point out where and why, do you?
But I'm having difficulty with it as a complete poem. It flies through description with virtuosity, yet doesn't fit together. You don't focus on one factor of the fountain, nor do you linger around. And then, with the last stanza, you throw in some dazzling description that, for me, doesn't do anything. I've got nothing linking all of these impressions together, and that's my problem. At the moment, it reads almost like an exercise of description, and that really needs to change because it is briliant in moments. You shoot from one part of the fountain to the other, yet never really justify any of what's mentioned.
Now, I can get links. The babies are ambiguous, and perhaps the tiny rivers reflect the infrastructure of the city? But I have to work to get these and, while working isn't a bad thing with poetry, I need something in the poem to make me realise I have to work. An odd clue, a vague theme, just something that makes me think there's a greater intention to this. At the moment, I'm afraid, it's just not there for me. If I've missed something, please point it out and prove me wrong, because I really want to be proved wrong.
The best link and theme I can find is that of modernisation. All of these things are smothered in lead and whatnot. After all, the clouds are like 'beat-iron'. But that still seems either too soft or unintentional to me.
Some more specific stuff:
The first stanza is rather muddy and made me stutter at a few moments. I think it's to do with all of the commas. Here's a rewrite of mine that, for me at least, lets the thing flow:
Wet lead
Forms the puffed out cheeks
Of blank babies, that pour,
Through pouted lips, rainwater.
It slaps the stone
incline of the yard. (after going through it, the problem is with the two 'thats' - perhaps a less drastic solution is there?)
Good to see you back posting this sort of stuff though
Dave
*EDIT* I've been thinking about this still. Perhaps my earlier thoughts are a little drastic, since this does work as a well described scene. But I still agree, to some extent, with my comments.
On the one hand, the writing here is just brilliant. You don't need me to point out where and why, do you?
But I'm having difficulty with it as a complete poem. It flies through description with virtuosity, yet doesn't fit together. You don't focus on one factor of the fountain, nor do you linger around. And then, with the last stanza, you throw in some dazzling description that, for me, doesn't do anything. I've got nothing linking all of these impressions together, and that's my problem. At the moment, it reads almost like an exercise of description, and that really needs to change because it is briliant in moments. You shoot from one part of the fountain to the other, yet never really justify any of what's mentioned.
Now, I can get links. The babies are ambiguous, and perhaps the tiny rivers reflect the infrastructure of the city? But I have to work to get these and, while working isn't a bad thing with poetry, I need something in the poem to make me realise I have to work. An odd clue, a vague theme, just something that makes me think there's a greater intention to this. At the moment, I'm afraid, it's just not there for me. If I've missed something, please point it out and prove me wrong, because I really want to be proved wrong.
The best link and theme I can find is that of modernisation. All of these things are smothered in lead and whatnot. After all, the clouds are like 'beat-iron'. But that still seems either too soft or unintentional to me.
Some more specific stuff:
The first stanza is rather muddy and made me stutter at a few moments. I think it's to do with all of the commas. Here's a rewrite of mine that, for me at least, lets the thing flow:
Wet lead
Forms the puffed out cheeks
Of blank babies, that pour,
Through pouted lips, rainwater.
It slaps the stone
incline of the yard. (after going through it, the problem is with the two 'thats' - perhaps a less drastic solution is there?)
Good to see you back posting this sort of stuff though
Dave
*EDIT* I've been thinking about this still. Perhaps my earlier thoughts are a little drastic, since this does work as a well described scene. But I still agree, to some extent, with my comments.
OK, forget my facetious remark earlier. Please. I still can't think of (or google) a Piazza Veronese, but it's a great generic name. Let's imagine a great generic Italian city.
And this is good stuff -
Streaked and white-eyed
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
To the sea god Neptune
Ah, that's great, especially the dripping platters of sky. To me it brings in the idea of busy waitresses, thereby capturing the idea of tourism (very big in Italy) as well. Bellissimo!
The cherubs - putti? - seem quite sinister, although here I think may be influenced by Blink (one of the best Dr Who episodes ever).
Terrific, in fact. It's a really vivid picture of a great Italian city in the pissing rain. I can almost hear the clank of the trams. Bloody good stuff.
Cheers
David
And this is good stuff -
Streaked and white-eyed
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
To the sea god Neptune
Ah, that's great, especially the dripping platters of sky. To me it brings in the idea of busy waitresses, thereby capturing the idea of tourism (very big in Italy) as well. Bellissimo!
The cherubs - putti? - seem quite sinister, although here I think may be influenced by Blink (one of the best Dr Who episodes ever).
Terrific, in fact. It's a really vivid picture of a great Italian city in the pissing rain. I can almost hear the clank of the trams. Bloody good stuff.
Cheers
David
Kris.
It's more a case of not being able to finish poems. I tend to lose the thread somewhere in the middle. I've got a stack of unfinished stuff.
The CAPS question. I suppose it's a bad habit, formed by reading a lot of published stuff, especially pre 1960's, therefore it doesn't trouble me in reading. In some way too I think it gives each line extra weight but I'll probably be pounced on for saying that. Hey, I'll use whatever technique I can, even if it does get up some peoples right nostril.
I did ponder that first line and agree it's a pity the title doesn't lead into the poem. Trouble is, I like the title but not as a first line.
I'm about to edit the punctuation and at the points you mention. Have you been studying punctuation? You a right on with the using comma's as pauses too. Guilty as charged.
Funny you should make that Larkin reference because as I was writing this I kept getting an image of him standing in the square with an umbrella folded around his head!
Merlin.
Thank's for the feedback and I appreciate your edits, I'd actually removed, re-added several times before I decided to keep them. I appreciate cutting down as much as possible but sometimes the line is just too fine.
Julia.
I'm glad you picked up on the animate- inanimate nature of the descriptions. Happy that came across and cheers for the time. You pointed out the typos too so thanks! Hope all is going well and good to have you about.
Wab.
Great crit as usual. All valid points and I've noticed your edit, which perhaps makes telling that it's purely a descriptive poem superfluous. Interesting though that you found each verse slightly dis-jointed because I did wonder about the continuity. One theme I did start out with, and kept concious throughout was the correlation between base metals and water. Specifically non-colour, just varying shades of grey...yet one fluid, one solid. I hope this came across. There's a deliberate avoidance of colour. I am disappointed that I didn't get any metal sound's into it, which makes David's tram comment interesting. I was even toying around with bells and anvils at one point.
David.
Not facetious, I knew someone would pick up on it. I was going to cite artistic licence but I prefer your 'generic' explanation much more.
I lived in Verona for about three months with an Italian girl who turned out, as my mother had warned me, to be quite fiery, otherwise I might still be there! The statue is not actually on the Piazza Bra but in a small courtyard just off it. It's cast lead and was supposed to have been used as a pattern for a bronze sculpture/ fountain.
I asked my daughters about 'Blink' and they enthused for a good quarter of an hour. Scary stuff.
I too am a big fan of Italy.
Really helpful feedback all.
Cheers
It's more a case of not being able to finish poems. I tend to lose the thread somewhere in the middle. I've got a stack of unfinished stuff.
The CAPS question. I suppose it's a bad habit, formed by reading a lot of published stuff, especially pre 1960's, therefore it doesn't trouble me in reading. In some way too I think it gives each line extra weight but I'll probably be pounced on for saying that. Hey, I'll use whatever technique I can, even if it does get up some peoples right nostril.
I did ponder that first line and agree it's a pity the title doesn't lead into the poem. Trouble is, I like the title but not as a first line.
I'm about to edit the punctuation and at the points you mention. Have you been studying punctuation? You a right on with the using comma's as pauses too. Guilty as charged.
Funny you should make that Larkin reference because as I was writing this I kept getting an image of him standing in the square with an umbrella folded around his head!
Merlin.
Thank's for the feedback and I appreciate your edits, I'd actually removed, re-added several times before I decided to keep them. I appreciate cutting down as much as possible but sometimes the line is just too fine.
Julia.
I'm glad you picked up on the animate- inanimate nature of the descriptions. Happy that came across and cheers for the time. You pointed out the typos too so thanks! Hope all is going well and good to have you about.
Wab.
Great crit as usual. All valid points and I've noticed your edit, which perhaps makes telling that it's purely a descriptive poem superfluous. Interesting though that you found each verse slightly dis-jointed because I did wonder about the continuity. One theme I did start out with, and kept concious throughout was the correlation between base metals and water. Specifically non-colour, just varying shades of grey...yet one fluid, one solid. I hope this came across. There's a deliberate avoidance of colour. I am disappointed that I didn't get any metal sound's into it, which makes David's tram comment interesting. I was even toying around with bells and anvils at one point.
David.
Not facetious, I knew someone would pick up on it. I was going to cite artistic licence but I prefer your 'generic' explanation much more.
I lived in Verona for about three months with an Italian girl who turned out, as my mother had warned me, to be quite fiery, otherwise I might still be there! The statue is not actually on the Piazza Bra but in a small courtyard just off it. It's cast lead and was supposed to have been used as a pattern for a bronze sculpture/ fountain.
I asked my daughters about 'Blink' and they enthused for a good quarter of an hour. Scary stuff.
I too am a big fan of Italy.
Really helpful feedback all.
Cheers
-
twoleftfeet
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 6761
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:02 pm
- Location: Standing by a short pier, looking for a long run-up
Late to this one, so it's all been said.
I like the way you have joined lead,iron, grey,water, glass, the old and the new into one seamless whole
(You must be a brilliant plumber
)
How old is the fountain? I thought the slightly heroic/archaic language was spot on.
wrt caps and commas
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
The rising stallion sea.
- here the comma after fingers aids readability, not so the capitalisation of "Becalmed".
Not really a problem though.
Compare this with:
..the puffed out cheeks
Of blank babies, that pour
Through pouted lips,
Rainwater that slaps the...
- again, I think "rainwater" would be better, and "pour" needs a comma (like "fingers" above) otherwise it is the
cheeks that are pouring out of the babies mouths ??!!
Plaudits
Geoff
I like the way you have joined lead,iron, grey,water, glass, the old and the new into one seamless whole
(You must be a brilliant plumber
)How old is the fountain? I thought the slightly heroic/archaic language was spot on.
wrt caps and commas
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
The rising stallion sea.
- here the comma after fingers aids readability, not so the capitalisation of "Becalmed".
Not really a problem though.
Compare this with:
..the puffed out cheeks
Of blank babies, that pour
Through pouted lips,
Rainwater that slaps the...
- again, I think "rainwater" would be better, and "pour" needs a comma (like "fingers" above) otherwise it is the
cheeks that are pouring out of the babies mouths ??!!
Plaudits
Geoff
-
oranggunung
- Preponderant Poster
- Posts: 1393
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:15 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
Minst
I really like this descriptive poem. I was quite happy that the scene was the sum of the piece. It was most skilfully crafted, and as such, a real pleasure to read.
I’ve been thinking about punctuation (blame Kris, he started it), and musing on the possibilities of occasional syllables. See what you think.
Through pouted lips,
Rainwater that slaps the
After lips, can the comma be replaced with something more substantial – something between a semi-colon and a full stop? The word ‘that’ could then be removed from the next line, to give something like
Through pouted lips;
Rainwater slaps the
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
The “offering dripping” sequence is a bit cumbersome. As the babies ‘pour’, perhaps the nymphs could ‘offer’. Not sure that the comma after nymphs is necessary (an enforced pause?).
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
Strictly speaking (no, I’m not an English teacher), shouldn’t there be a comma before ‘Neptune’?
It also looks like there’s some punctuation missing after ‘Neptune’. Are the nymphs doing the becalming, or is Neptune?
Fill the runnels and gutter
A little devilment with language. Is it possible to place a comma after runnels? This would make the rivers a little more active. Gutter is a verb, and I think it might be applied to water.
And high unshuttered windows
Not sure why you need to use ‘And’ in this sentence. There have been a couple of them just before. Would ‘The’ work as well.
Shudder, bend the flaked
This feels too passive. If ‘bend’ became ‘bending’, the sentence would feel more dynamic.
Clouds, above
A non-essential comma? You’ve isolated the location of the scene on the last line, so I don’t think you need to get the reader to pause just before they get there.
It’s all just tinkering. I can only offer possible pointers to little specks on the surface of this highly accomplished piece.
og
I really like this descriptive poem. I was quite happy that the scene was the sum of the piece. It was most skilfully crafted, and as such, a real pleasure to read.
I’ve been thinking about punctuation (blame Kris, he started it), and musing on the possibilities of occasional syllables. See what you think.
Through pouted lips,
Rainwater that slaps the
After lips, can the comma be replaced with something more substantial – something between a semi-colon and a full stop? The word ‘that’ could then be removed from the next line, to give something like
Through pouted lips;
Rainwater slaps the
Nymphs, offering
Dripping platters of sky
The “offering dripping” sequence is a bit cumbersome. As the babies ‘pour’, perhaps the nymphs could ‘offer’. Not sure that the comma after nymphs is necessary (an enforced pause?).
To the sea god Neptune
Becalm, with lazy fingers,
Strictly speaking (no, I’m not an English teacher), shouldn’t there be a comma before ‘Neptune’?
It also looks like there’s some punctuation missing after ‘Neptune’. Are the nymphs doing the becalming, or is Neptune?
Fill the runnels and gutter
A little devilment with language. Is it possible to place a comma after runnels? This would make the rivers a little more active. Gutter is a verb, and I think it might be applied to water.
And high unshuttered windows
Not sure why you need to use ‘And’ in this sentence. There have been a couple of them just before. Would ‘The’ work as well.
Shudder, bend the flaked
This feels too passive. If ‘bend’ became ‘bending’, the sentence would feel more dynamic.
Clouds, above
A non-essential comma? You’ve isolated the location of the scene on the last line, so I don’t think you need to get the reader to pause just before they get there.
It’s all just tinkering. I can only offer possible pointers to little specks on the surface of this highly accomplished piece.
og
Thanks Geoff.
I've changed the punctuation on this so many times that according to the infinite monkey theorem, I've probably written the complete works of William Shakespeare in morse code.
Of course, you are right about comma after 'pour'. So it's back in.
Brilliant plumber. lol. Had to raise my game to Polish standards. I do have a bit of a passion for ornamental leadwork though, which you'll be glad to hear, I won't go into.
Thanks orangunung.
Some useful tips on punctuation there. Now I'm not competent enough to simply change things based on your advice which I'm sure is relevant. So, have decided to educate myself properly and invest in some instruction. It's apparent to me by now that puncuation is letting me down.
In point of fact, I actually learned where a semi colon should be used, based on your crit. So thanks for that.
Perhaps a 'Punctuation For Idiots' section on the forum. Any volunteers?
Cheers.
I've changed the punctuation on this so many times that according to the infinite monkey theorem, I've probably written the complete works of William Shakespeare in morse code.
Of course, you are right about comma after 'pour'. So it's back in.
Brilliant plumber. lol. Had to raise my game to Polish standards. I do have a bit of a passion for ornamental leadwork though, which you'll be glad to hear, I won't go into.
Thanks orangunung.
Some useful tips on punctuation there. Now I'm not competent enough to simply change things based on your advice which I'm sure is relevant. So, have decided to educate myself properly and invest in some instruction. It's apparent to me by now that puncuation is letting me down.
In point of fact, I actually learned where a semi colon should be used, based on your crit. So thanks for that.
Perhaps a 'Punctuation For Idiots' section on the forum. Any volunteers?
Cheers.