Version 1
Suppose his bits lay slopped along the aisle
like chicken giblets, just as they were found,
all wet and quivering with half a mile
between the car’s grille and their resting ground.
Suppose the priest, instead of "ev il for
you are my staff, mz rod, and all my com-"
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar
is saying "Well, he really was a cunt"
Suppose the speeches made the mourners mine
their pockets for his gifts of charity
with their cold, church assuaged hands, all to find
a forceless gap, and the disparity
between this lack of clutter and the claimed.
The organ moans. Another speech begins.
He’s lying with cut knuckles by the flames.
His wife retains her bruised (but loving) grin.
Suppose she’d never fallen down those stairs?
and that the speech, half way throgh, cuts. A stern
silence. There is no reason being there.
The wreath theyll really hang above is urn
is given (suppose) to some kids
whoäll flay the thing and show the stripped
salt twigs the mourners built it on, with all th skids
nicks, dirt and scrapes of the bush they stripped.
Suppose that death tears free, like a loose gale,
the life not done, or worse, done. Are those marks?
Arrange the sheets. Measure the curtain rails.
You got the job. You weren’t scared of the dark.
Version 2
Suppose his bits lay slopped along the aisle
like chicken giblets, just as they were found,
all wet and quivering with half a mile
between the car’s grille and their resting ground.
Suppose the priest, instead of all the psalms
he could recount, like thirty three or six,
thinks about the man he’ll bless with his clean palms
and says “I’d certainly call him a prick.”
Suppose the farewells made the mourners mine
their pockets for his gifts of charity
with their cold, church assuaged hands, all to find
a forceless gap, and the disparity
between this lack of clutter and the claimed.
The organ moans. Another speech begins.
He’s lying with cut knuckles by the flames.
His wife retains her bruised (but loving) grin.
Suppose she’d never fallen down those stairs?
and that the speech winds down like a fag stubbed
out. They see no reason for remaining there
so leave him, shamed, and make towards the pub.
But even if this doesn't happen, which
it won’t, death can’t scribble off every mark.
Arrange the sheets. Make sure those rips are stitched.
You got that job. You weren’t scared of the dark.
There are loads of ways to end this, so I was wondering if this was a decent route. It's nearer to the original draft. Does the ending feel less abstract now that it follows on from normal stuff?
His Cremation - revised and less rude
Suppose his bits lay slopped along the aisle
like chicken giblets, just as they were found,
all wet and quivering with half a smile,
between the car and it's resting ground.
Suppose the priest, instead of evil, for
you are with me; your rod, your staff,
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar,
is saying, 'well he did it for a laugh'
like chicken giblets, just as they were found,
all wet and quivering with half a smile,
between the car and it's resting ground.
Suppose the priest, instead of evil, for
you are with me; your rod, your staff,
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar,
is saying, 'well he did it for a laugh'
You must be given credit for the form, pentameter and the end rhymes/half rhymes - for every verse except the second that is. You're not getting away with even a half rhyme for com-/cunt. Staff & twat go together better and there's no cynical slicing of words for a half rhyme and a syllable count.
A thought.
'Suppose the priest, instead of evil, for
Lord, you are with me; your rod, and your staff...
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar,
is saying, Well, I guess he was a twat.
The first verse is good, got my interest immediately (nowt like a bit of gore, eh?). Verse two came off the rails somewhat, V3 got it back on the rails again - another good one. i wondered where you were going with V4 - I wondered if the last line hinted at the deceaesed being a wife beater (a cunt) or whether it was there to make a rhyme. The last three verses didn't really hang together - I see what your saying but I'm not sure what the relevance is.
I don't know what it is, but the images seemed to jump about - maybe between the half mile from the grille to the resting place.
I'll have to read it a few more times, give it more thought.
Barrie
A thought.
'Suppose the priest, instead of evil, for
Lord, you are with me; your rod, and your staff...
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar,
is saying, Well, I guess he was a twat.
The first verse is good, got my interest immediately (nowt like a bit of gore, eh?). Verse two came off the rails somewhat, V3 got it back on the rails again - another good one. i wondered where you were going with V4 - I wondered if the last line hinted at the deceaesed being a wife beater (a cunt) or whether it was there to make a rhyme. The last three verses didn't really hang together - I see what your saying but I'm not sure what the relevance is.
I don't know what it is, but the images seemed to jump about - maybe between the half mile from the grille to the resting place.
I'll have to read it a few more times, give it more thought.
Barrie
After letting go of branches and walking through the ape gait, we managed to grasp what hands were really for......
Cheers both,
Looks like S2 needs tweaking. Obviously I'll need to find another psalm with enough sound and rhythm to let me rhyme swear words with.
Barrie,
You've chiselled out a point that is really, really valuable. I think the reason the ending fails is because it's a fairly abstract one. Abstract endings aren't always bad, but it goes off a bit with the wreath. So I really have two levels of abstraction in the poem, beginning with the wreath, and by the time you get to death, you forget what the poem was about anyway. What I need to do is either scrap the current ending, or normalise the funeral again and make it much easier to digest (less of the symbolic stuff). That way, if I pile on the normality of the thing, the abstract ending couplet will not seem so deserted. I'm working on another ending now anyway, so will post it in a few days.
Cheers lots
Dave
Looks like S2 needs tweaking. Obviously I'll need to find another psalm with enough sound and rhythm to let me rhyme swear words with.
Barrie,
You've chiselled out a point that is really, really valuable. I think the reason the ending fails is because it's a fairly abstract one. Abstract endings aren't always bad, but it goes off a bit with the wreath. So I really have two levels of abstraction in the poem, beginning with the wreath, and by the time you get to death, you forget what the poem was about anyway. What I need to do is either scrap the current ending, or normalise the funeral again and make it much easier to digest (less of the symbolic stuff). That way, if I pile on the normality of the thing, the abstract ending couplet will not seem so deserted. I'm working on another ending now anyway, so will post it in a few days.
Cheers lots
Dave
Nothing really to add on what has been said,
except for:
Tom
except for:
That opinion depends a bit on accent, barrie. Staff/twat could never rhyme for me, because I speak with a long vowel sound on the first, but a short on the second. I personally liked the com/cunt rhyme.barrie wrote: for every verse except the second that is. You're not getting away with even a half rhyme for com-/cunt. Staff & twat go together better and there's no cynical slicing of words for a half rhyme and a syllable count.
Tom
meh and bah are wonderful words
So, the struggle with form and metre continues! Actually, on this showing, I'd say you were starting to come out on top. S1 is a barnstormer, but I agree with Barrie that S2 doesn't work as it is.
I'd like the final version to look a lot like this, just quite a bit shorter.
And, although I realise I'm really just paraphrasing the Bazman here, you could quite easily end it at S4. Still, let's see what your new ending looks like.
Cheers
David
I'd like the final version to look a lot like this, just quite a bit shorter.
And, although I realise I'm really just paraphrasing the Bazman here, you could quite easily end it at S4. Still, let's see what your new ending looks like.
Cheers
David
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emuse
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"I was thinking about completely changing this, but it's probably better letting other people see something before totally scrapping something you've worked on for a few week. Cheers"
Are you kidding me? This poem is brilliant. It's the best poem of yours I've read (you abilities seem to be spiking upward like bamboo).
My only disappointment will be a huge revision to this work. It's so good, it could be published as is. I can't comment much on the meter as you know but I can tell you how effective the message, language and voice is. The end took such a fantastic and surprising turn. You really got me.
e
Are you kidding me? This poem is brilliant. It's the best poem of yours I've read (you abilities seem to be spiking upward like bamboo).
My only disappointment will be a huge revision to this work. It's so good, it could be published as is. I can't comment much on the meter as you know but I can tell you how effective the message, language and voice is. The end took such a fantastic and surprising turn. You really got me.
e
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Gene van Troyer
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is saying, Well, he always was a bit daft.barrie wrote:
'Suppose the priest, instead of evil, for
Lord, you are with me; your rod, and your staff...
as the fair sun attends the sad and soar,
is saying, Well, I guess he was a twat.
True, "daft" is not as rude a word as "twat," but we're talking about funerary words, so calling the departed "daft" is still rude.
I don't know that this could be publishable as is—probably it is—but most editors of my acquaintance would be hung up by that second verse if only because you've managed the rhyme scheme so well with the rest, it makes verse two stand out like a thumb that has been mashed by a hammer...
Cheers,
Gene
"If you don't like my principles, I have others." —Groucho Marx
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stuartryder
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Wabz
On the scansion, this line's too long:
"salt twigs the mourners built it on, with all the skids"
All the rest are ok.
Is this a reflection on the possibility of reincarnation, or is it about the Resurrection? I'm not sure it's either. The form intrudes on the message a bit, IMHO.
Cheers
Stuart
On the scansion, this line's too long:
"salt twigs the mourners built it on, with all the skids"
All the rest are ok.
Is this a reflection on the possibility of reincarnation, or is it about the Resurrection? I'm not sure it's either. The form intrudes on the message a bit, IMHO.
Cheers
Stuart
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oranggunung
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Wab
Some wonderful writing here within a rigid structure. The ‘what if’ scenarios are interesting to follow, and the change in structure at S4 might suggest a finishing point. However, the story doesn’t appear to have been told by then.
I’m afraid I didn’t like the contrivance of S6 (or the scansion failure), and haven’t yet got to grips with S7.
Hope you don’t mind if I offer another possible reworking of S2, as many agree it is a weak spot:
Suppose the priest, instead of reading out
a dry rendition of that shepherds’ psalm,
the sun attending to the sad devout,
just said, He was a ***t, but meant no harm.
It avoids having to rhyme with the noun (whichever you choose). It also removes ‘the sad and soar’, but, for the life of me, I couldn’t understand that reference. Was it a typo?
I hope you get this fixed to your satisfaction.
og
Some wonderful writing here within a rigid structure. The ‘what if’ scenarios are interesting to follow, and the change in structure at S4 might suggest a finishing point. However, the story doesn’t appear to have been told by then.
I’m afraid I didn’t like the contrivance of S6 (or the scansion failure), and haven’t yet got to grips with S7.
Hope you don’t mind if I offer another possible reworking of S2, as many agree it is a weak spot:
Suppose the priest, instead of reading out
a dry rendition of that shepherds’ psalm,
the sun attending to the sad devout,
just said, He was a ***t, but meant no harm.
It avoids having to rhyme with the noun (whichever you choose). It also removes ‘the sad and soar’, but, for the life of me, I couldn’t understand that reference. Was it a typo?
I hope you get this fixed to your satisfaction.
og
Crikey, this has receieved some attention.
E -
Thanks very for the vote of confidence. To be honest, I'm still not happy with this as of yet, and it is going to go through some heavy re-working, but I really appreciate the pat on the back! Hopefully this'll be re-worked to both my satisfaction and yours, eh?
David -
Yup, the struggle still continues. It's nearly over though, since most structures come to me in iambs now, which is bloody fun.
Gene -
Don't worry, I'm completely with you about S2. It needs to change. A lot.
As for daft, I think that would be a bit of a let down to be honest. I mean, I'm not exactly going with subtlty in S1, and I think toning it down for S2 would just seem a little meek.
Stu -
I always miss stuff like that. Ta.
No, the message isn't about either. I'm far too ignorant to address those things yet! (if you must know, it's more about how death makes us suddenly look past all of the shit things someone has done).
Alas, free verse doesn't interest me much anymore, so the form going's to stick. But I'm definitely making it a bit less rigid, don't worry. In fact, I was thinking about changing this to
a
b
b
a
ala In Memoriam stanza form. Although it'd mean cutting it down to tetrameter.
Og -
I appreciate the re-write, but the He was a ***t, but meant no harm. is really the opposite of what I want. But I really like your idea about the psalm rhyme, so I'm going to think quite a lot about that. Great little re-write, and I will probably steal from some of it.
Thanks again all
I may work on this soon, I may leave it for a month or two... as what always happens, some other poems are now fighting for my attention!
Suppose I best get on with some crits
Dave
E -
Thanks very for the vote of confidence. To be honest, I'm still not happy with this as of yet, and it is going to go through some heavy re-working, but I really appreciate the pat on the back! Hopefully this'll be re-worked to both my satisfaction and yours, eh?
David -
Yup, the struggle still continues. It's nearly over though, since most structures come to me in iambs now, which is bloody fun.
Gene -
Don't worry, I'm completely with you about S2. It needs to change. A lot.
As for daft, I think that would be a bit of a let down to be honest. I mean, I'm not exactly going with subtlty in S1, and I think toning it down for S2 would just seem a little meek.
Stu -
I always miss stuff like that. Ta.
No, the message isn't about either. I'm far too ignorant to address those things yet! (if you must know, it's more about how death makes us suddenly look past all of the shit things someone has done).
Alas, free verse doesn't interest me much anymore, so the form going's to stick. But I'm definitely making it a bit less rigid, don't worry. In fact, I was thinking about changing this to
a
b
b
a
ala In Memoriam stanza form. Although it'd mean cutting it down to tetrameter.
Og -
I appreciate the re-write, but the He was a ***t, but meant no harm. is really the opposite of what I want. But I really like your idea about the psalm rhyme, so I'm going to think quite a lot about that. Great little re-write, and I will probably steal from some of it.
Thanks again all
I may work on this soon, I may leave it for a month or two... as what always happens, some other poems are now fighting for my attention!
Suppose I best get on with some crits
Dave
I am not going to be near mz compter for a few dazs, so here is the first version from memory. Its basicallz this.
(I am also on a german kezboard, which is a challenge. Sorrz about all of the stupid errors I cant be bothered to correct.) Dave
(I am also on a german kezboard, which is a challenge. Sorrz about all of the stupid errors I cant be bothered to correct.) Dave
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emuse
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Yes you have improved it. The changes don't disrupt what you had already sewn up quite well. My only nit (and perhaps it's preference but I prefer the previous L8 though perhaps you need "prick" for "six" so I guess it's not that big of a deal.
Then the linebreak stubbed/out could be improved.
Apart from this bravo! (though I suspect you are still tinkering).
e
Then the linebreak stubbed/out could be improved.
Apart from this bravo! (though I suspect you are still tinkering).
e
I have missed this one until now Dave.
Lots been said so I'll restrict myself to saying I am impressed by your winning battle with form and structure. On content I particularly liked the opening stanza.
I am not convinced that l6/l8 rhyme doesn't come over as very much set up - needs to be more subtle IMO. The ending I am not sure - its a great ending but is it a great ending to this poem? Particularly not sure I can link the ending and the title.
Stuff to ponder.
elphin
Lots been said so I'll restrict myself to saying I am impressed by your winning battle with form and structure. On content I particularly liked the opening stanza.
I am not convinced that l6/l8 rhyme doesn't come over as very much set up - needs to be more subtle IMO. The ending I am not sure - its a great ending but is it a great ending to this poem? Particularly not sure I can link the ending and the title.
Stuff to ponder.
elphin
A brief thanks to both of you before I tie weights around the ankles of this thing and let it sink.
E -
I'm with you on the new part. It's tosh. I've felt that for a while now. Something new will find itself there.
Elph -
Yeah, the ending. I hate it. If you're still interested I've added a new one in Version 2 which levels this much more (one thing I dislike about this poem is its annoyingly oratorical-ness) in the real (at least, the set-up is like that). I'm happy to hear that you think I'm getting over the form hurdle.
Ta both
Dave
E -
I'm with you on the new part. It's tosh. I've felt that for a while now. Something new will find itself there.
Elph -
Yeah, the ending. I hate it. If you're still interested I've added a new one in Version 2 which levels this much more (one thing I dislike about this poem is its annoyingly oratorical-ness) in the real (at least, the set-up is like that). I'm happy to hear that you think I'm getting over the form hurdle.
Ta both
Dave