Faith

[beautifulloser]

Let's explore a way a day can be
jarred, like yours. Brains frayed, eyes black:
Rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.
I have more than one book
starting off our kindred ramble;

thorough in fragmented sentences
tinctured with half-answers, leading
to a mirror. One reflection, giving me
more jip than words ever will, or did.
You ask questions of some teacher,

a dark destroyer personified. Who said:
"It's got to be personal". You said:
"But it's the word of god, right?"
He said: "All we ever had is lost
in translation". So we all latch onto one,
made by a person. The word was first

no less. Sounds about right then
that solace should pour out in reams
from the leaves of poetry in my palms,
leaving me with fewer questions it seems
but still heavy somewhere, still itching
like you are. Querying psalms. Me, glass.

[jms]

Hi b.l.,

I liked here the kind of obtuse, we're getting a half glimpse of what you're thinking, kind of thing, and all very well told at the same time.

The very first sentence didn't agree with me, I'm wondering if you can lose it altogether? 'Brains frayed' looks like a good start point?

I wasn't sure about the section that starts 'You ask questions' and ends with 'made by a person', it felt somehow out of place. Others will no doubt disagree, but I felt that you needed something 'else' there. Whatever that else might be.

I didn't like 'Me, glass', mostly because I didn't have the foggiest idea what you were getting at. I'd lose it, but if I'm missing something vital kick that idea into touch.

A nice read, though, as always.

Cheers,

Jon

[BenJohnson]

Was the me, glass a reference to drinking? That's the way I took it, a different place to search for answers. As jms said, some parts are clear and some are obscure, but I like it. 'Jip' was a great word in s2, after

thorough in fragmented sentences
tinctured with half-answers

It felt so down to earth, just right.

For me the first line works just fine.

[Ros]

I liked the first verse. Good beginning, I thought.

thorough in fragmented sentences

- stumbled a bit on thorough

a dark destroyer personified. Who said:

- teacher as dark destroyer? seems a bit over the top.

Me, glass.

- no, not keen on this, as do not comprehend.

Liked it overall, though. Clever and down to earth all at once.

[David]

A magical mystery tour, ending up I know not where, but as ever I enjoyed the journey. What views!

Cheers beau

David

[beautifulloser]

Oh, bugger. I wish I never posted it. It's failed already so I might as well say this was a guy on the bus, asking questions of some religous-guy in a well tailored suit. The dialogue was has it happened, pretty much. I was reading Alfred J prufock at the time. Bit of a weird one, just a vibe at the time sort of thing.

JMS - no, a mirror.

Ros - I know, doesn't scan well. Heavy, yeh probably. Ho-hum.

Big D - Aye, a charabanc bus. There's a plank of splinters if you'd care to refresh a memory . . .

me
x

[Ros]

I'm glad you posted it, I enjoyed it. And I admire a man who can read Prufrock on the bus

[BenJohnson]

I don't think you failed at all. As usual we all got different meanings

Let's explore a way a day can be
jarred, like yours. Brains frayed, eyes black:
Rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.
I have more than one book
starting off our kindred ramble;

I was thinking of brass rubbing, imagined this as one of those school trip out type things. It ended up in my mind as a kid asking questions of a vicar, who I thought was the teacher/ dark destroyer. Totally off the mark, but it read well in this light.

[emuse]

Are you kidding?

This is brilliant. I don't care if you wrote it whilst standing at the butcher shop waiting for your piggly wigglies this poem is masterful.

I command you to stop putting your work down.

This poem is a philosophical mine field. It really appeals to me because of the possibilities here:

Let's explore a way a day can be
jarred, like yours. Brains frayed, eyes black:
Rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.
I have more than one book
starting off our kindred ramble; (This first strophe sets the entire tone--slightly caustic and possible self depracatory. The reader doesn't know if the subject is the "I" or the "you" which makes for great intrigue. I am already identifying with this character whose rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.)

thorough in fragmented sentences
tinctured with half-answers, leading
to a mirror. One reflection, giving me
more jip than words ever will, or did.(so I see that the reflection which in the way I read it is some type of insight or perhaps it is the mirrored reflection the subject sees and feels it does not offer him enough--jip is gyp?)
You ask questions of some teacher,

a dark destroyer personified. Who said:
"It's got to be personal". You said:
"But it's the word of god, right?"
He said: "All we ever had is lost
in translation". So we all latch onto one,
made by a person. The word was first (here I see a conversation ensuing--the protagonist is emphatic that the elusive "word" which has certain philosophic and religious significance must come from within. Each person grasps for that one word like an opening to give understanding to everything else. Perhaps that word is God, life, love--we don't know. I love it because I as a reader get to consider what it might be.) I also really like "All we ever had is lost in translation." That is suuuch an amazing bit. Well this could be so many things and it reminds me of the old civilation of the Enoi from the Time Machine (a movie you should see--check 1960's original, you will know the part I mean).

no less. Sounds about right then
that solace should pour out in reams
from the leaves of poetry in my palms,
leaving me with fewer questions it seems
but still heavy somewhere, still itching
like you are. Querying psalms. Me, glass.

I love the querying pslams. Me, glass.

Not only the lovely alliteration but the curious ending. The subject feels both fragile and as if he has been seen through. There is so much here to be appreciated.

x
e

[Nigel]

I really like this poem and it's actually about something which matters. It's got palpable vitality and integrity. Full of heart. It's somewhat dysfunctional (which I like ) but too loose in places (which I don't). Some suggestions are offered which may improve it or may not.

Let's explore a way a day can be
jarred, like yours. Brains frayed, eyes black: I'd shorten this by leaving out 'like yours'
Rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.
I have more than one book
starting off our kindred ramble; this is all good stuff but why the capital for 'rasped' ? and why the semi-colon after ramble
thorough in fragmented sentences be careful of 'thorough' - it smacks of Coleridge
tinctured with half-answers, leading
to a mirror. One reflection, giving me
more jip than words ever will, or did. not sure about 'jip' - a bit loose perhaps
You ask questions of some teacher,

a dark destroyer personified. Who said: 'Dark destroyer' is a bit OTT I thought - comic book speak
"It's got to be personal". You said: You need a question mark here
"But it's the word of god, right?" Not your best stanza, is it ? it's all a bit untamed and confusing
He said: "All we ever had is lost Who is the 'He' ? God ?
in translation". So we all latch onto one, Who is the 'we' ? The human race ?
made by a person. The word was first

no less. Sounds about right then How to read 'no less' - is it needlessly ambiguous to no good effect?
that solace should pour out in reams
from the leaves of poetry in my palms, Do you need 'in my palms' ?
leaving me with fewer questions it seems The sudden introduction of rhyme is distracting
but still heavy somewhere, still itching
like you are. Querying psalms. Me, glass.

[pseud]

I command you to stop putting your work down.

indeed. I agree. But I'll have to come back later to tell exactly why I think this. There are a few parts I think could be fleshed out and clearer, but I THINK I got it, I like what you're going for.

[pseud]

It's a bit enygmatic and perhaps more vague than it has to be, which may explain why there are so many different takes to this poem. And it's hard to know when this should be considered a success and when it should be considered a failure. I read it in terms of acceptance/rejection of organized religion. Read with an "I," a "he" and a "you," which emuse picked up on as well. Seemed to suggest a dialogue of Plato or David Hume on this subject. I see the "I" as more of an agnostic, the "you" as one of the faithful (Christian, Moslem, Jew, etc.), and the "he" as a critic of religion. It's hard to pin down whether the "he" is more of a Richard Dawkins type or more of a "liberal theologian" like a member of the Jesus Seminar or a "liberal" Moslem, who don't really believe their Holy Book is to be taken literally or is divinely inspired...but serve as metaphors of a "greater" truth.

Let's explore a way a day can be
jarred, like yours. --- as in, full of sin, guilt? "Jarred" for me means it was disharmonious...


--------------------- Brains frayed, eyes black:
Rasped by hunched knuckles rubbing.
I have more than one book
starting off our kindred ramble; - this could describe the Old Testament, some of the Q'uran, the Book of Mormon..."kindred ramble" is a good way to put it, if this is what you are referring to.

thorough in fragmented sentences
tinctured with half-answers, leading
to a mirror. -- I think of Shakespeare's metaphor of holding a mirror up to the world? As if these ancient books are just their attempts at doing the same?

-------------------One reflection, giving me
more jip than words ever will, or did. -- here we see the narrator looking for something deeper than sentimentality or a blind leap.
You ask questions of some teacher,

a dark destroyer personified. Who said:
"It's got to be personal". You said:
"But it's the word of god, right?"
He said: "All we ever had is lost
in translation". -- and that's really the breakdown of the argument...I get frustrated with the conservative theologians that say "we have direct access to the direct inerrant words of God" and the liberal theologians who answer saying "no we don't, it's all personal and subjective." As a Christian I would say the conservatives overestimate their knowledge and the liberals give an inadequate answer with relativism. There is a difference between a book and one's interpretation of a book; still, if it's all subjective then in what way is any of it "real"? How is your moral outlook any better than Jack the Ripper's or Ted Bundy's?

Anyway, you've concisely pinpointed the main disagreement between them; these portrayals are better than caracatures because I think they're more accurate, but they are still to the point.


---------------------So we all latch onto one,
made by a person. The word was first

no less. -- We latch onto our own "versions" of the world, or of religious life, or even an atheist in his or her worldview. But I like the transition from the "Word" to the "word," i.e., how language is used:

------------------- Sounds about right then
that solace should pour out in reams
from the leaves of poetry in my palms,

leaving me with fewer questions it seems
but still heavy somewhere, still itching
like you are. Querying psalms. Me, glass. -- "me" as the narrator "is" Glass? Glass is both transparent and brittle. This would fit the characterization of the agnostic: domeone genuinely unsure, and not even sure how to critically analyze what's being said by those around him/her.

Very interesting poem, I don't have suggestions at this point, though I think there are some helpful suggestions pointed out by others already. Though I don't think this is a good final draft, you're on to something. I may be way off in my interpretation but this poem made me think.

Caleb

[David]

You know, beau (note cunning use of internal rhyme), I read this again and enjoyed it more before (see previous note) I realised a new coachload of admirers had just arrived. Well, they're right. It is good.

Maybe I should read it again?

It's very good.

Cheers

David