Poetry Forum

Hi Nigel,

Some nice images you've got on the go here, some of it cast me in mind of Dylan Thomas, which can't be a bad thing. My only misgiving regarded S3, which felt a little cliched to me. The rest is nicely off kilter, hinting, teasing, this bit felt a little obvious.

Cheers,

Jon

I'm with Jon on this one Nigel. I like how it teases meaning out of certain lines and manages to feel legitimately enigmatic. I felt a little flumoxed by the end, but got the impression that was meant to happen.

I also agree about S3 - it made me cringe to be honest... 'moon tunnel' is a little daft, too.

The rest though, as clean as the form. Loved gallow trees.
Enjoyed
Dave

Like the others I thought S3 was a bit iffy, and I don't like "moon tunnel" at all - I think it's very difficult to write freshly about the moon, so laden with symbolism. I think you should confine its appearance here to the title, which I do like and which the rest of the poem informs nicely.

I thought S2 was great, and the last part as well. "The hare's loose-eyed leap" has a marvellous feeling of slow-motion about it.

The line-breaks are spot-on and the form is ultra-clean.

Pagans believed that seeing a moon gazing hare would bring growth, re-birth, abundance, new-beginnings and good fortune. The hare is known to be sacred to the goddess Eostre and eventually became known as the Easter bunny. At Easter we eat Hot-Cross-Buns, the cross on the bun is said to represent the four quarters of the moon, these buns were originally pagan offerings and were often hung from rafters to scare off evil that lurked in houses.

That's all new to me, and vaguely relevant, I think, so thanks for taking me there, Nigel.

I confess to not having a problem with S3.

I do think the line breaks in S1 are a bit unhelpful. The "this" of this you and I would probably be happier on the previous line.

Not keen on moon tunnel either, although I think I see what you mean, but I think S2 and S4 are terrific.

Cheers

David

It's the rhythm and the form of this that reminds me of Heaney. The clarity of the voice just seems to stop things for a minute, it's nice. A had a look at your site, good to see you posting some stuff on here for us mere mortals!

But to the matter in hand, I'm one that's always sceptical when I see poems written with no punctuation, Dylan Thomas has been mentioned; it's something that's so often done badly, all the more reason to applaud when someone does it well. as I think you have here.

Some interesting line breaks; "this you and I" for example. The gallow trees brought back Rimbaud's "Dance of the Hanged Men"! Though I did think the line "looking for the" seemed a bit weak in it's context. An enjoyable piece to read though, strong ending.

Well I guess that everyone has more of less covered this, I had to look up the Sea of Rains, a great name for the area. I agree that the 'this' seems misplaced, but the lack of punctuation is fine, the line endings work well to make up for this. Also as mentioned s2 is great, easily the strongest one there, s3 I quite like but feels a little weak, it has a tough act to follow after the preceeding one. Those 2 stanzas throw a lot of emphasis on the woods which detracts from the moon a little for me.

The title works for me, the brain wants to substitute gazing so you get two titles for the price of one.In s3 I get thrown by the our and your, is your seperate from our, how many people are we referencing?

'Moon tunnel' I could take or leave, it works but again is overshadowed by the gallow trees and black eels.

On balance I like it, not sure if it doesn't feel a little overly trimmed, though.

I liked the first two verses, not the third and fourth so much. To me, the short lines felt rather disjointed, particularly in those verses. I'm not keen on moon tunnel - the image doesn't work for me. There is no tunnel associated with the moon.

Ros wrote:I'm not keen on moon tunnel - the image doesn't work for me. There is no tunnel associated with the moon.

I thought that too, Ros, but I suppose you could imagine the moon - the full moon, at least - as the light seen at the end of an invisible tunnel. Or am I just being fanciful?

But the light diffuses through the atmosphere. I really can't see it as a tunnel...

Ros wrote:But the light diffuses through the atmosphere.

D'oh!

Or you could look at the night sky as the black tunnel with the moon as the mouth of it. You could have the moon shining on water leading away like a tunnel, rays of moonlight filtering through the trees as mini tunnel of light. There are many ways to imagine the image it is up to you to decide how it works

I've been meaning to post on this for a while. I absolutely loved the opening stanza of this, I found
'you and I / looking for the / sun / at night' very powerful. For me the short lines and the sparseness of it were great.
I also thought S2 and 5 were great, but I wasn't so keen on 3&4. 'Poultice' didn't seem to fit and I agree that 'moon tunnel' doesn't work as well as the other images.

Sharra
xx

Nigel Enjoyed this a lot.

David's explanation helped fill in a lot of the connections but it works even without that knowlege.

My inclination was that the line break between l1 and l2 wasnt right but on reflection the terrain is "this you and I " so I now see it works perfectly.

My only nit and I would be prepared to be persuaded otherwise is that

our love
a poultice
on the bark
of your wound

might be overly contrived. On another day though I might not think that so see what others say.

Very good

elph

Thanks everyone.
"Or you could look at the night sky as the black tunnel with the moon as the mouth of it" - that's the idea I was striving for. The mood as the mouth of tunnel in the night. It's interesting that no one liked the third stanza because I substituted ''my hand' with 'our love' at the last moment. I'll clearly have to rethink that stanza. No one seemed to pick up that the poem concerns coping with manic depression in a relationship but I suppose that was too obvious.

Nigel wrote:No one seemed to pick up that the poem concerns coping with manic depression in a relationship but I suppose that was too obvious.

No, it was too obscure for me but re-reading in light of that comment makes more sense of everything but the last stanza, sorry for being obtuse, but how does that fit it? S3 makes much more sense than before and 'our love' is definately better than my 'hand'.

I can't help thinking you need a bit more of a nudge towards the theme somewhere maybe in the title, the gallow trees are suitably dark as is the image of the night.

Nigel wrote: "Or you could look at the night sky as the black tunnel with the moon as the mouth of it" - that's the idea I was striving for.

And, to be honest, that's pretty much what I said.

Nigel wrote:No one seemed to pick up that the poem concerns coping with manic depression in a relationship but I suppose that was too obvious.

Like Ben, I didn't find that obvious at all, although I did see that S3 was an allusion to trouble of some sort. So that might need a little more elucidation, Nigel.

Cheers

David

Do I get a prize that I thought that s2 referred to depressive periods in relationships?

OwenEdwards wrote:Do I get a prize that I thought that s2 referred to depressive periods in relationships?

No because you didn't say before, all prize deserving comments needed to be made on the pink form before the 29th of the month. Very sorry.

BenJohnson wrote:No because you didn't say before, all prize deserving comments needed to be made on the pink form before the 29th of the month. Very sorry.

This always bloody happens.

OwenEdwards wrote:

BenJohnson wrote:No because you didn't say before, all prize deserving comments needed to be made on the pink form before the 29th of the month. Very sorry.

This always bloody happens.

What, you didn't get that memo?

Nigel, this is suitably vague that it carries more weight for not being explicitly about depression. Moreover, if you were to limit it by making that overt, I think you would turn off many readers, for what is more cliched than poets shouting about depression?

The way you have done it, one can relate to it in many ways - as you say it is about coping strategies, looking for light in the darkness, setting *something* free.

I didn't have a "cliche" problem with verse 3, only the word "poultice" seemed workaday and not really you, somehow. Can you express the same need to nurse in another way? Something to think about.

Cheers

Stuart

NOTE TO MODERATORS: Can you now remove this poem please and also PARAGLIDERS. I'll submit another problem poem shortly but I don't want these left hanging there.

Nigel, you can delete the poem yourself simply by editing it. I'd rather not delete the whole thread, as that seems slightly insulting to people who have commented on the poem.

Does that sound okay?

Cheers

David

David. Thanks for that. I didn't realise. There seems little point in deleting the poem and leaving the comments naked. I won't delete them for now as this preciousness may have opened a debate to the benefit of others. Below is how I have answered an internal communication from Elph which may help: (I don't know whether Elph is a man or a woman and this may be symptomatic of my concern. Not intending to be rude but who are you people ? There's a certain inevitable opacity for newcomers to your workshop not helped by esoteric usernames.

I'm just not sure how secure this site is. In the other workshop in which I'm involved I have to pay £30 per year which ensures exclusivity. For instance, does the general public have access to the workshop simply by registering ? I think it does. Some online workshops are by invitation only. You seem to have had a large number of people over the years who submit poetry many of whom have disappeared into the ether. One is always concerned about plagerism as I've come across it before in poetry forums. It's the idea of the poem which needs to be protected from plagerism.The question of whether a poem posted here would be deemed to be published is a grey area which doesn't concern me as my poems are almost always quite altered after scrutiny, as I'm sure are others. I