table

[oranggunung]

The past’s engrained
upon your face.
None can deny your age
or grace;
a lifestyle with a steady pace
left you standing tall.

But blind cupidity
breeds true; deep forest
couldn’t shelter you.
They sought your heart
and ran it through;
brought you to your knees.

Now balanced on
another’s feet
as ape-like mayflies
sit to eat,
the ignominy is complete,
but death still has its splinters.


single line edit, S2 L1 - Alas replaced with "It's sad"

S2 L1 v3 - "It's sad" replaced with "But blind"

[Ros]

Very nice, og. Can't find anything to complain about!

[David]

Cunning lay-out, og - if you followed the rhymes and the metre, it would look like this:

The past’s engrained upon your face.
None can deny your age or grace;
a lifestyle with a steady pace
left you standing tall.

Alas, cupidity breeds true;
deep forest couldn’t shelter you.
They sought your heart and ran it through;
brought you to your knees.

Now balanced on another’s feet
as ape-like mayflies sit to eat,
the ignominy is complete,
but death still has its splinters.

I prefer your lay-out, but that reminds me of something - just can't remember what. I'm just about to go on my Sunday afternoon constitutional, so I'll give it some thought. You don't have a model in mind, do you?

It works nicely. Is ape-like mayflies a bit harsh? Have you just had a bad dinner party experience?

I might challenge you to get all three final lines to rhyme. Makes it a bit more interesting from your point of view.

Cheers

David

[Wabznasm]

Og,

I think this is superb. Really. If you don't mind me being honest, I would say that some of the time I find your stuff a little... impersonal and cold, but this has heart without being sentimental.

And it's really clever:

brought you to your knees.

Now balanced on
another’s feet

is fantastic.

The form is sharp, and the rhythms all feel natural because of the shorter lines. In fact, I find the inconsistency in the beats per line (S1 L1: 2; S2 L1: 3) somewhat refreshing; it has a mixture of rigidity and freedom that I admire.

If I had anything to moan about, it would be the opening of S2:

Alas, cupidity
breeds true; deep forest
couldn’t shelter you.

There are a couple of things I don't think you can get away with. For a start, 'alas' is just naff and fusty. Because of its antiquarian leanings, 'alas' also ruins 'cupidity' (a word I would allow you to get away with if it was preceded by a modern phrase). The ommitance of an article in 'deep forest' is, for me, one of the bigger evils of formal compression too. Why not just 'the forest' ?

I have another good poem about tables by Derek Mahon which I will try to fish out for you this evening.

Great
Dave

[Sharra]

A great poem, I loved the opening line.
And 'death still has its splinters' is such a good last line.
My only niggle was the 'alas' as for me, alas feels a little too 'poetic'.
Sharra
x

[ray miller]

Great poem, brilliant last verse. For me it would be just as good as laid out by David. What's to hide?

[stuartryder]

Very nice og. Like the way the dual structure suggests the dual nature of internal grain and external carpentry.

Stuart

[oranggunung]

Wow!
What a great response.


David
I didn’t have a model to work to. The conversion of the ideas to verses suggested the structure.

Rhyme and metre – I appreciate your reformatted version. I was making an attempt at being less formal, while respecting the intelligence of the readers (to appreciate that it should be read as your formatted version).

“ape-like mayflies” is the perspective of the tree, not a judgement on those at the meal. If the tree was a hardwood, it could have been centuries old and that would put the human lifespan in the shade.

Rhyming the ending lines – there was a temptation, but I thought they might work as a summary of the verse. There was a greater attraction to making these into a super condensed version, rather than being tied to the rhyme. I keep getting drawn back to rigid metres, so did my best to resist the temptation.


Dave
Really glad you like it.
The anatomical references were very appealing, especially as they were zoological rather than botanical.

I did struggle with ‘Alas’. The trouble is keeping the story flowing in a coherent manner. None of the alternatives felt right. It looks like I need to do some more struggling.

I didn’t think that “deep forest” was such a booboo. Perhaps revised punctuation might sidestep that issue. I wanted to indicate the effort that was made to gather the timber. ‘deep’ seemed expedient.

“cupidity” is too good an opportunity to miss, so I really need to find a way to fix S2.


Rob, Sharra, Ray, Stuart

Thanks for the words of praise. A slightly modified version should be on its way soon.


og

[Elphin]

Og

Can only say plaudits to you for the structure and the topic. Two standout lines among lots of rather good ones

Now balanced on/another’s feet

but death still has its splinters

Alas is a problem. deep forest not at all.

Excellent

elph

[David]

Rhyme and metre – I appreciate your reformatted version. I was making an attempt at being less formal, while respecting the intelligence of the readers (to appreciate that it should be read as your formatted version).

No, I prefer the way you've laid it out. It makes the discovery of the poem more surprising, somehow. Presentation is everything, eh?

[oranggunung]

Thanks Elph.

Alas is gone, but, I fear, not necessarily forgotten.

In looking for an alternative, the metre seems to get the final word. Sometimes there's no escaping it.


og

[Wabznasm]

'It's sad' piles on the bloody humans! motif a bit too much for my tastes og.

How about a simple and efficient 'But then,'. It would work metrically, it would sound fine if spoken, and it would resonate with the contradiction between the trees standing still and the ones being cut up.

[juliadebeauvoir]

Of all the words that struck me was the lilting of 'cupidity'--very clever poem about a plain subject.
Perfection:

It's sad, cupidity
breeds true; deep forest
couldn’t shelter you.
They sought your heart
and ran it through;
brought you to your knees.

I always thought that the useless/needless removal of trees was sad. Happens here all the time in paper mill country. For seven years I rode home one way with the pine forests to my left and right. In one afternoon the paper people came and cut them all down. I mean hundreds of acres. It was like looking at a field of war. All the bodies strewn about--desolate.
If this poem wasn't titled "Table" it easily could be a description of a human life dismantled by a series of events. Death does still have its splinters doesn't it? Even after a bumblebee is dead it can still sting.

Cheers,
Kim

[Basnik]

Hi,

On the s2, how about 'Sadly, cupidity' rather than 'It's sad, cupidity.' This changes the stress on to the first syllable and lengthens the vowel even more, which is not a bad thing for the tone of the poem. (Which I think is superb)

Basnik

[Epicurean]

This is all written in an archaic style, so I find it strange that you were persuaded to change 'alas' but kept, for instance, 'upon your face' 'none can deny', 'they sought your heart' and 'and ran it through'.

I think 'alas' is more in keeping with the style of the piece than 'it's sad' , but I'm not at all sure why you chose this kind of language-style.

I really like the ideas contained in this. It has some very powerful imagery. But wouldn't it be stronger without the nineteenth-century tone?

[twoleftfeet]

Og,

A polished piece (Boom Boom!)

My favourite line:
Now balanced on another's feet

wrt Deep forest
- I'm afraid my grammar chip beeped, although on reflection it probably is OK, but you wouldn't say it, would you?
Howzabout "Deep woodland" or "dense foliage"?

Mensa

[Epicurean]

Help me here. Why choose to write in the style of long-dead poets?

This is a contemporary theme, and one well worth writing about. Doesn't it deserve a contemporary treatment?

[oranggunung]

Phil (epicurean)

the linguistic style wasn't a deliberate choice. Some related lines came together and offered a structure. At that point I had to choose whether to adopt the form or follow the idea. I thought the form added emphasis to the words, so went along that route. This is a struggle that many writers have: structure versus content.

At the time of posting I wondered how this piece would be received, as I thought there were a number of elderly conventions. I wondered if the condensed style of writing might serve as an excuse for some of them.

I must stand guilty of writing in an older style. I tried to avoid 'thee's and 'thou's, 'poetic' contractions and inversions as well as archaisms. It looks like some have forgiven me. Sometimes the power of a piece seems to come from the presentation, rather than the words alone. I found the poem quite pleasing, but I understand that it didn't work for you.

I could tackle this subject again, but I doubt I could rewrite this particular piece in a manner that you would find satisfactory, while I still found it powerful. C'est la guerre: how often do readers and writers agree?

I do pick people up on archaisms, so should be mindful of them myself. I clearly need to be even more careful than I currently am.


og

[oranggunung]

Kim

thanks for your kind words. The attraction of cupidity and its similarity (at least in sound) to stupidity was very appealing. The poem speaks of a single incident of tree-felling, but it's good to hear that resonated with more modern practises.


Geoff

I was wondering if you might have suggested varnished, rather than polished. Or 'vanished' even, "Like an old oak table" - see Blackadder II for more details.


Basnik

I have gone round and round in circles with S2 L1. It's interesting to see that Phil thinks 'alas' sits well in the context of the poem. It was the word I was most worried about from a critical perspective. I don't know if this is going to reach a satisfactory conclusion.


Dave

But then, ...

Is a rather harsh entrance to a verse. I'm not a big fan of starting sentences with but.

I was wondering about

Once more, cupidity
bred true. Deep ...

or

Again, cupidity
bred true. Deep ...


Is there a correct answer under such conditions of close scrutiny?


og

[Epicurean]

Thanks for the reply, og. Maybe I'm too rigid in my thoughts about this, but I'm genuinely puzzled that no-one who commented on your poem referred to its archaic style.

I'm not talking about 'structure v. content' - I thought the structure was good - or the quality of your writing, which I also think is good, simply about your choice of an outdated vocabulary. Immediately I read the opening I thought you must be quoting or parodying something else. I think editors would probably make that assumption if you submitted it somewhere, and want to know why.

It's not a good feeling being the only one out of step here so soon after joining the site, so I'll stop banging on about it now.

Cheers,

Phil

[oranggunung]

A little tinkering.

Sorry about the bump. Won't do it again.

I bit the bullet and went with a 'but' (very good at voltas, don't you know).

Hope the new S2 L1 isn't considered too hammy. I think it's less judgemental than "Alas" or "It's sad".
Is it something someone would say? Perhaps,
if they were reading the poem out loud.


og

[Callum C]

In the first strophe you are apparantly talking about the table; the finished article, yet you say "left you standing tall". Surely the opposite is true, no? What's this blind cupidity stuff? Brought you to your knees and left you standing tall? Tall as a tree, on its knees as a table. I'm not sure how a fly can be ape-like, and I don't think I understand the last line. The problem with the rhythm is that it's too overpowering. It bounces along, it becomes tedious. After a while, you're just bouncing along with it. I think you've sacrificed meaning for rhythm. The rhyme scheme's a bit all over the place aswell.

[oranggunung]

Callum

Thanks for dropping in.
I admit I've tried to pack a lot of information into a short piece.

S1 has a view of the tree as a table and the table as a tree. A little confusing, perhaps.

"blind cupidity" was my tragicomic way of alluding to mankind's tendency to self-centred acquisitiveness.

"ape-like mayflies" this is a bad habit I've fallen into recently - describing things as themselves. The mayfly allusion is a reference to the relative lifespans of the organisms (big trees living much longer than people).

The last line references the bible (1 Corinthians 15:55). A certain ambiguity was intended.

rhythm - I'm sorry you became bored with the rhythm in three, short verses. I don't think I can abbreviate this piece any more. There are already issues with density.

Rhyme scheme - entirely my fault again. I adapted a form which probably needed the ending lines of each verse to rhyme with each other. However, in an attempt to stretch that form (can't think what it might be called) I adopted unrhymed end lines. While attempting what some might (generously) refer to as a contemporary layout, it appears I abandoned contemporary language. Perhaps I bit off more than I could chew.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment


og