The Dragons Spirit (Work in Progress)

Any closet novelists, short story writers, script-writers or prose poets out there?
Merlin
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:56 pm

Not sure where I should post this - so chose here :mrgreen:

It's not prose, but it's going to be something which is ongoing/work in progress - is this the right forum? :roll: :mrgreen:


Of course, help very much appreciated - and indeed very much needed :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I will be aiming for about 30 verses :mrgreen: in Rhyme Royal form - ambitious - you bet it is :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :shock:

The Dragons Spirit

1
One thousand arias afore the prophet came
was the age of iron that dawned.
The kinfolk labored in the fields of flame,
and dark tunnels of death were spawned.
Many were lost to the dust adorned;
would have been void of deathly limit
if it were not for the courageous Celtic spirit.

2
The tongue of the Keltoi was whispered,
the land was awash in glorious song.
Brythonic words free and belletristic
from Anatolia to Emerald in throng.
Victorious and free with aplomb,
the spirits lived among men
juxtaposed all the same, now, as then.

3
The Druid alone he presided,
and the gods came down from on high.
The Guardian of courageous souls had decided
to plough the fields from the sky.
The fiercest warrior shrilled a war-cry
In battles of peace for the land of the learning,
amid abounding feasting, loving and yearning.
.......................................................

4
The general marched with legions promised
upon the fields of courage and freedom.
The warriors Celt did vanquish, admonish,
the legionnaires, the Roman heathen,
away did go, without a reason.
With amour proper the tribes awoke,
The dragons tongue had bravely spoke.

5
The prophet came and stayed not long
but sowed the seed for strife and greed,
sent legionnaires to the land of song,
on paths of destruction the word, the creed,
did sow, did poison, did plant the seed,
and houses of death were built so strong
in the bastille of the druids prong.

6
The melys land was a regretful story
with recrudescent evangelizers
basking in glory.
The noble gods hid with sympathizers
and reemerged in dreams of surprises,
in prose and song a nation reborn,
with revenge and glory duly sworn.

7
The word was mightier than the sword
with great gifts bestowed upon the bards
Brythonic tongue transformed afford
and spell was cast in fragment shards,
doomed nemesis in weak facades,
poetic scriptures for saints and lord
to slay sais serpent with royal sword.

8
Spirits and saints joined hand-in-hand
and summoned the Llans from the dust.
The saint of all saints was born to the land
and the heavens rejoiced in glorious just
when Dew consumed the heretic lust.
The valorous Cymbrogos, druids of steel
discovered the enemy’s Achilles heel.
.................................................

9
The warriors of Merlin the magic seer
fought Teutonic invaders with courage and pride
and truculent glory devoid of fear,
a chorus was sung when pagans died
who could not run with nowhere to hide.
And the Cymry ate triumphant in glorious feast,
rejoicing, in slaying the satanic beast.

10
Six hundred and sixty four arias did battle resume
whence the false prophet was chanted to dust
a Cymry spirit in heaven consume,
as messenger of magicians trust.
umbilical spirit of Britons adjust
was severed across the sea.
Decisive crime in this time by the heathens in Whitby.

11
Together in heart but smitten
the great dyke offered hope and permanence
etched forever the land was bitten
bracing dragons eminence
castles fortified in regretful prominence
the battle not ended but only begun
the Saxon foxes did surely run.

12
Black Viking thwarted by Gwynedd king
to dust was sent the pagan black,
rejoice and merry skies did sing
the Cymry land they could not sack,
courage, pride, ardour not lack.
Victory and joy did bring
Rhodri Mawr, the Gwynedd king.

13
Merlin summoned a Prince so brave
and bestowed upon him the gift of nation,
the sovereign soil was his to save,
the Cymry spirit in adulation.
Mercians fell with consternation,
asleep in their graves in the dust of the dyke,
a moment of glory was revered respite.

14
The great law of Hywel did protect
the children of the land.
Few joined with evil King defect
partners and servants at hand.
Welsh fortress wept and turned to sand
The dragon was wounded deeper
by the spear of the keeper.

15
From inferno’s heat,
justice of heaven proved best,
with the serpent beat,
the Dragon summoned bards to his chest
to celebrate chairing in the west,
to the melodia of harpists and pipers breath
the dust danced in the tunnels of death.

16
Fortresses of sinful dark magic grew from the soil,
fornication scorched the land dire,
the demon forced the dragon to toil
then breathed glorious fire
onto the towers which rose on higher.
When the false king relented to the Prince,
the dragon stood proud in acquiescence.

17
With his lords from the east
came the apocryphal king,
aided and summoned by Judas the beast,
whose mercenaries and vagabonds did bring
a sword to cut the tongue of those who would sing.
The dragon dismayed by void of reason,
bled deeply from the wounds of dirty treason.

18
The alien words of Rhuddlan did belch
from the iron ring fortress deprave,
the heart and the soul was ripped from the Welsh
and the old souls screamed from the grave.
The old way replaced with laws from the knave,
Sais justice and taxes, Longshanks and law,
the future looked bleak and culturally poor.

19
The red and white books preserved tradition
in story telling and Celtic tales.
The Mabinogion, the perfect rendition
for all you need to know about Wales.
Pryderi, Branwen, and others in annals
with romance, myth and Aurthurian treasure
ensuring Wales would be known forever.

20
Poetic wonders warmed saddened people,
such as Dafydd ap Gwilym, true master of art,
with words as divine as any church steeple.
Llywelyn and Iolo Goch were a part
of the word which justly refused to depart.
Celtic love and romance and nature and beauty
were written, recited as the poets duty.

21
Llywelyn ap Gruffydd was not the Last
as Madog the Prince prepared to sing
against Edward The First and his deeds of the past
and penchant for taxing any moving thing.
The schiltron at Moydog failed to save him
and was taken by Havering to London Town
again subserviant to the Englsish Crown.

22
From Ifor Bach came Llywelyn Bren
a short-lived rebel from south of the land
who played his part against the King’s men.
absurdly charged with treason at hand
for besieging the sais with his brave Welsh band.
taken to Cardiff and duly slaughtered
in the keep of the castle; hung – drawn and quartered.

23
Welsh spirits were raised by Owain Lawgoch
descended no less, from Llywelyn the Great,
the Gwynedd House man wanted rid of the sloth
to claim his birth-right as the Cymru primate.
Welsh breath was held with hope it’s not late
and the soldier prince named Red-Hand
set about retrieving the melys land.

24
Word traveled far and awoke dragon sleeping,
revolted , reviled and so very riled
when Merlin carnated Glyndwr for the keeping,
Cymry in spirit and soul reconciled
with glorified uprising pure as child.
With the aid of the dead ones,enemy endured
a sweet, sweet journey to purgatory assured.

25
Wild and exotic wrote the great English Bard,
ruled by Emotion and Magic,
he had had quite enough of the sais façade
and the story of Wales that was tragic.
So he rose like a star, was so acronyc,
never speaking his name - taboo,
enter the fray; Mr Owain Glyndwr.

26
The Stratford Bard did sum Welsh King…
"at my nativity, the front of heaven
was full of fiery shapes, of burning cressets,
and at my birth the frame and huge
foundation of the earth shaked like a coward."

This was the fate of Glyndwr who did sack
all English castles and claimed his land back.

27
The true King reigned at last,
and a great feast was readied
ending the fast and ghastly past
consumed by the great ones steadied.
Celtic Princes and allies from afar aread,
the dragon rejoiced in delight
triumphantly feasting all through the night.

28
Merlin held a banquet and humbly received
gifts from the deities of ancient time,
Zeus of Olympus, Cronus and Rhea conceived
feasted on the offerings of the warriors fine,
the fate of the old ones were all entwine
as they filled their bellies with meat from the dust
and wine prepared from the rivers of lust.

29
Andraste, Goddess of victory praised
King Arthur and Arawn, Masters of other worlds.
Taliesin of Bala, Tegid Foel and Ceridwen raised
wrote magical praise of Glyndwr so bold
as the old ones emerged from tunnels with gold,
the darkness lifted and victory revered
as ties with the sais were finally severed.

30
Dark traitors turned the tide in Brecon
and stole the land from the dragons grasp,
Sion Cent poured scornful reckon
and the mortal and vain were bitten by asp,
false hearts upon did arrows cast,
piercing the breast of Cymry pride
and brave, true men, in glory, cried.
Last edited by Merlin on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:36 am, edited 18 times in total.
Amadeus
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:52 pm

Very impressive. I have some minor crits, but have to go to out now, so I will return shorty.

Gareth
Amadeus
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:47 pm

Right, I'm back now, so here we go:
One thousand arias afore the prophet came
was the age of iron that dawned.
Arias - nice way of putting it, but why is it used. Also, is there any point in me saying that it was actualy 1200, but of course, approximations may suffice in this case. In any case, I like this. It gives a very definite setting and time to the poem.
The kinfolk labored in the fields of flame,
and dark tunnels of death were spawned.
I feel that some of the imagery here is a little bit cliche, yet at the same time quite appropriate. I'm not sure where I stand, but perhaps a little reworking of the imagery might be useful, just for experimentations sake?
Many were lost to the dust adorned,
would have been unknown number; infinite,
This reads a little awkwardly, I feel. Perhaps something along the lines of

Many [that] were lost to the dust adorned;
would have been known as an unknown number


What do you think?
if it were not for the courageous Celtic spirit.
I like this. It kind of gives it a very heroic feel, like that of Beowulf.
The tongue of the Keltoi was whispered,
the land was awash in glorious song.
Interesting usage here, and I very much like it. The word Celt is pretty much a 19th century development, as I have come to understand. The Latin Celtus, or the greek Keltoi are much more appropriate, as they give the poem a feeling of bundless age; as though it could ave been written ages ago.
Brythonic words free and belletristic
from Anatolia to Emerald in throng.


Belletristic - like this. It is of course exclusive to the written language of the Celts, which is indeed belletrstic. However, the celts did not write down their language until much later, as it is my understanding, and any written celtic artifacts were written in Greek or Latin.
Anatolia to Emerald
I'm not quite getting this reference. Anatolia is the name for the Asiatic part of Turkey, but what is Emerald? I'm gathering this is a reference to migration, but it was my inderstanding that the migration was from the Iberian Peninsula to Anatolia, and not antolia to 'Emerald' . Of course, the origins of Cetic migration are a very contested one, and so maybe this may want to be ommitted?

Victorious and free with aplomb,
the spirits lived among men
juxtaposed all the same, now, as then.
More good contextual history. The ancestral traditions played a very big part in many of the celtic cultures, especially in the Six Celtic Nations. Are you planning on continuing this theme later on in the poem, because I think you could have a lot of fun with it. Also, the Druidic belief was that after death the soul passes from one to another, which explained the mad ntics during battle.
The Druid alone he presided,
and the Gods came down from on high.
Gods should have a lower case g.

Is it worth also mentioning the fact that Druids believed themselves to be the incarnation of gods, and this is why Irish kings never went anywhere without a Druid in his presence? Just as a point of interest.

The guardian of courageous souls had decided
to plough the fields from the sky.
I'm curious, by Guardian of the Courageous Souls (which should be capitalised, maybe?), are you referring to the god Teutates? Nice farm imagery by the way.
The fiercest warrior shrilled a war-cry
In battles of peace for the land of the learning,
amid abounding feasting, loving and yearning.
This can very muc be used as a metaphor for certain cntemporary issues. Are you planning on taking the Seamus Heaney type satirical view here and making lins with certain cultures, like Heaney did with his bog poems and Ireland?


Seriously, well done. You have a great command of language, and are developing what will be a great story line. I think this will become an absoutely brilliant work, and cannot wait to see the finished version.

Gareth
Merlin
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:39 pm

Gareth,

Thank you so very, very much for an extremely helpful crit - much needed and much appreciated...

I will come back to the crit tomorrow.... :shock:

Just wanted to say an interim thank you....
:D
Merlin
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:48 am

Thanks G...

Arias - nice way of putting it, but why is it used. I thought it would make an apt metaphor for a roughish span of time…
:shock:

The kinfolk labored in the fields of flame,
and dark tunnels of death were spawned.

I feel that some of the imagery here is a little bit cliche, good point, will experiment a little… :lol:

Many were lost to the dust adorned,
would have been void of deathly limit

This reads a little awkwardly, Concur :roll: – concur :roll: – concur :mrgreen: – gave me trouble… I feel. Perhaps something along the lines of

Many [that] were lost to the dust adorned;
would have been known as an unknown number

What do you think? – how about this? :shock:

Many were lost to the dust adorned,
would have been void of deathly limit,
if it were not for the courageous Celtic spirit.



Anatolia to Emerald

I'm not quite getting this reference. Anatolia is the name for the Asiatic part of Turkey, but what is Emerald? I am trying to convey the east to west (geographical) span of the Celts; from Turkey to Ireland – So Emerald refers to Ireland… :shock: :lol:

Gods should have a lower case g. Noted – thanks……


I'm curious, by Guardian of the Courageous Souls (which should be capitalised, maybe?), are you referring to the god Teutates? (Yes – as the tribal protector)

I have penned a few more more stanzas, will post them up with the first part later... :shock: :roll: ...

There will be gaps and work needed...but I think if I can get it written as a first draft , with help and feedback I can improve it as I go along... :)

Have a great holiday...
Amadeus
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:00 pm

I thought it would make an apt metaphor for a roughish span of time…
Ah i thought you may have been doing that. It works. Really nice placement.

Many were lost to the dust adorned,
would have been void of deathly limit,
if it were not for the courageous Celtic spirit.

Personally, I do prefer this, as I feel it reads slightly less confusingly; but at the end of the day, its all down to how you see it :D

I am trying to convey the east to west (geographical) span of the Celts; from Turkey to Ireland – So Emerald refers to Ireland…
Ireland! Of course. Ah what a fucking idiot lol. Ok, see what you mean now :oops: .

I have penned a few more more stanzas, will post them up with the first part later... :shock: :roll: ...

There will be gaps and work needed...but I think if I can get it written as a first draft , with help and feedback I can improve it as I go along... :)
Looking forward to it :)

Nadolig Llawen!!!!!!! (Merry Christmas)

Gareth
Merlin
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:16 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: ..... :shock: :shock: :shock: great G...

...............................................................................
4,5,6,7 & 8 added... :idea:
Amadeus
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:53 pm

Just a few more crits. I really like where this is going by the way.
The warriors Celt did vanquish, admonish,
the legionnaires, the Roman heathen,
away did go, without a reason.
This is a bit too archaic for my liking. It reads awkwardly when it is is juxtaposed with the preceeding contemporary verses, and it isn't very natural to how we now speak. Perhaps something along the lines of

The Celtic warriors vanquished, admonished,
the legionnaires, the Roman heathen,
went away, without a reason


What do you think?
With amour proper the tribes awoke,
The dragons tongue had bravely spoke.
I like this introduction to the Dragon.
5
The prophet came and stayed not long
but sowed the seed for strife and greed,
sent legionnaires to the land of song,
on paths of destruction the word, the creed,
did sow, did poison, did plant the seed,
and houses of death were built so strong
in the bastille of the druids prong.
Very Miltonic Verse haha

The melys land was a regretful story
with recrudescent evangelizers
basking in glory.
This introduction to Wales is very well done - very subtle.
to slay sais serpent with royal sword.

Sais Serpent- the alliteration is a bit hard here, and although I am first language welsh, I initially thought it was French. Then again, I see you are going for a somewhat Paradise Lost feel here, with the Prophet (Miltons "One greater man") and the Serpent. This is well used here, what with the Christian invasion, so perhaps the alliterative difficulty can be a sacrifice for its meaning.
8
Spirits and saints joined hand-in-hand
and summoned the Llans from the dust.
The saint of all saints was born to the land
and the heavens rejoiced in glorious just
when Dew consumed the heretic lust.
The valorous Cymbrogos, druids of steel
discovered the enemy’s Achilles heel.
Llans - are you referring to Llannau here? e.e. Llan = curch

Dew - Initially, I thought this may have been some goddess of a kind, but I think you meant Duw, as in God? Am I right?

Cymbrogos - Good bit of linguistic history there

Achilles heel - again, I'm not sure where I stand with this one. On the one hand, it feels out of place in a verse full of Welsh history, and with a Roman Invasion, when Achiles was Greek; but on the other hand, it feels appropriate in that many Epics of this kind make strong inks to old tales. Perhaps you mght want to replace the story of achiles with something Welsh? Something that pops to mind is the story of Afanc, who was a great sea creature who used to kill people who fell int the water. Then, one day, Hu Gadarn (who would make a nice link to your prophet, as he is sometimes considered to be akin to Joshua or even Jesus, and led the people from Gwlad yr Haf to Wales) sent his Ox into the water after Yr Afanc. Dragging Afanc out of the water, it was discovered that it was weak when away from water, and could be killed. Just a thought, and there are plenty more Welsh tales like this.I ony reference this because I am currenty writing a poem very much like your own based around Welsh Folklore.


Keep them comng! :D

Gaz
Last edited by Amadeus on Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Merlin
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Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:53 pm

Thanks again G....

Will comment in a day or two.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Merlin
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Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:57 am

This is a bit too archaic for my liking. It reads awkwardly when it is is juxtaposed with the preceeding contemporary verses, and it isn't very natural to how we now speak. Perhaps something along the lines of

The Celtic warriors vanquished, admonished,
the legionnaires, the Roman heathen,
went away, without a reason

What do you think? Fair point – it’s a little awkward…and I like your suggestion too – thanks…

to slay sais serpent with royal sword.

Sais Serpent- the alliteration is a bit hard here, and although I am first language welsh, I initially thought it was French. Then again, I see you are going for a somewhat Paradise Lost feel here, with the Prophet (Miltons "One greater man") and the Serpent. This is well used here, what with the Christian invasion, so perhaps the alliterative difficulty can be a sacrifice for its meaning. – I have never read Paradise Lost – but of course, one wouldn’t necessarily have to have read it to be influenced by the theme – I am not drawing on any particular work or poet – at least not consciously… However, I did want to emphasize the Christian invasion – as it’s important – and here lies a little problem for me – because you know the score, G….. there is so much that I could use (historically , themes etc) that it’s a job to know what to leave out…

It’ s like driving on a straight road, until every third stanza, when you hit a crossroads….which road do you take?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Llans - are you referring to Llannau here? e.e. Llan = curch – I am a :lol: Swansea Jack :lol: and unfortunately most of us are not Welsh speakers :( – me included…I mean to use Llan in the sense of a village/community (but could be a church to – but lots of them – as in village Celtic churches)

Dew - Initially, I thought this may have been some goddess of a kind, but I think you meant Duw, as in God? Am I right? …. No , it’s not God…..it should have been Dewi :twisted: – as in St David – but God/Duw is an interesting alternative….particularly as I may have a problem introducing Dewi here , because the historical time line may not be quite right….but in saying that – I didn’t want to introduce him as a physical person anyway – only as spirit…

Achilles heel - again, I'm not sure where I stand with this one. On the one hand, it feels out of place in a verse full of Welsh history, and with a Roman Invasion, when Achiles was Greek; but on the other hand, it feels appropriate in that many Epics of this kind make strong inks to old tales. Perhaps you mght want to replace the story of achiles with something Welsh? Something that pops to mind is the story of Afern, who was a great sea creature who used to kill people who fell int the water. Then, one day, Hu Gadarn (who would make a nice link to your prophet, as he is sometimes considered to be akin to Joshua or even Jesus, and led the people from Gwlad yr Haf to Wales) sent his Ox into the water after Yr Afern. Dragging Afern ut of the water, it was discovered that it was weak when away from water, and could be killed. Just a thought, and there are plenty more Welsh tales like this.I ony reference this because I am currenty writing a poem very much like your own based around Welsh Folklore.

I like the idea of using a similar Welsh themed alternative to Achilles heel…but would be worried it would alienate some readers of the poem – as of course, every Tom, Dick and Harry can associate with the Achilles Heel thing – but thinking about it, introducing a Greek tale is problematic (at this point anyway)…I will think more on that….

Thanks again , G….really appreciate your input… :lol:

Good luck with your Poem :D …hope your gonna post it up sometime….
:shock: :shock:
Merlin
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Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:49 am

Stanza 9.10,11,12 & 13 added..... :shock: (as first drafts) :shock: ... :mrgreen:
Amadeus
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Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:37 am

I'll come back to tem in a bit (probably tomrrow). It's Christmas, and I'm going to ave dinner and a party at a friends house!! Have a good one!

Gaz
Merlin
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:23 am

Hope your dinner went well. Gaz :lol: :lol: :lol:

14 ,15,16 & 17 added...
Amadeus
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:52 pm

Merlin wrote:Hope your dinner went well. Gaz :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks - can't remember : :lol:

I have never read Paradise Lost – but of course, one wouldn’t necessarily have to have read it to be influenced by the theme – I am not drawing on any particular work or poet – at least not consciously… However, I did want to emphasize the Christian invasion – as it’s important – and here lies a little problem for me – because you know the score, G….. there is so much that I could use (historically , themes etc) that it’s a job to know what to leave out…

It’ s like driving on a straight road, until every third stanza, when you hit a crossroads….which road do you take?


Ah ok. A reference such as this (even if it is unintentional) to Paradise Lost does have a ood effect, as many literary critics will be aware of this work. On a seperate note, does any bodyknow the noun for Literaure when describing oneself as a person wo has studied it e.g. Sientist, Mathematician, Geologist, etc??
I am a Swansea Jack and unfortunately most of us are not Welsh speakers – me included…I mean to use Llan in the sense of a village/community (but could be a church to – but lots of them – as in village Celtic churches)
Ah I see what you mean, but the word Llan just tends to get used in a lot of place names, and doesn't describe a vilage itself. For Example Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave". Saying that, it can sometimes translate as 'place of...', but it s more often associated with churches.
No , it’s not God…..it should have been Dewi – as in St David – but God/Duw is an interesting alternative….particularly as I may have a problem introducing Dewi here , because the historical time line may not be quite right….but in saying that – I didn’t want to introduce him as a physical person anyway – only as spirit…
Ah makes sense now lol. Personally, I'd be wary of using Duw here, as it kind of contradicts the contrats between pntheism and monotheism. Then again, this might be a ce little sub-message of the poem - that it doesn't realy matter (although obviously to the people invlved, it does. This is kind of what Heaney says)
I like the idea of using a similar Welsh themed alternative to Achilles heel…but would be worried it would alienate some readers of the poem – as of course, every Tom, Dick and Harry can associate with the Achilles Heel thing
That's a good point actualy
Good luck with your Poem …hope your gonna post it up sometime….
Probably will at some point, although I'm not sure whether its going to be in Welsh or English. I'm muh more confident writing in Welsh, and don't really like translating my own poems for the board.

I'll address the other verses in my subsequent post.

Gaz
Merlin
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:18 pm

Good G...thanks for the feedback.... again...great stuff....will consider some of the points...

On a seperate note, does any bodyknow the noun for Literaure when describing oneself as a person wo has studied it e.g. Sientist, Mathematician, Geologist, etc??

As far as I know - it's simply; critic :mrgreen: :shock: or Literary Critic :shock:
Amadeus
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:27 pm

9
The warriors of Merlin the magic seer
fought Teutonic invaders with courage and pride
and truculent glory devoid of fear,
a chorus was sung when pagans died
who could not run with nowhere to hide.
And the Cymry ate triumphant in glorious feast,
rejoicing, in slaying the satanic beast.


Merlin - just a point of interest that you might want to cosider - the name Merlin originates in Welsh folklore. Merlin is based on a Wesh myth of a guy called 'Myrddin'. Here's something from Wiki:

The earliest (pre-12th century) Welsh poems concerning the Myrddin legend present him as a madman living a wretched existence in the Caledonian Forest, ruminating on his former existence and the disaster that brought him low: the death of his lord Gwenddoleu, whom he served as bard. The allusions in these poems serve to sketch out the events of the Battle of Arfderydd, where Riderch Hael, King of Alt Clut (Strathclyde) slaughtered the forces of Gwenddoleu, and Myrddin went mad watching this defeat. The Annales Cambriae date this battle to AD 573 and name Gwenddoleu's adversaries as the sons of Eliffer, presumably Gwrgi and Peredur.


Is Satanic appropriate here?It does show a sense of Irony in that the pagans view the Christians as Satanic, but I thin Satanic is a bitt ott, and perhaps a pagan link to hell would be more appropriate?
10
Six hundred and sixty four arias did battle resume
whence the false prophet was chanted to dust
a Cymry spirit in heaven consume,
as messenger of magicians trust.
umbilical spirit of Britons adjust
was severed across the sea.

Decisive crime in this time by the heathens in Whitby.
Bit of a chronological issue here - you reference the Teutonic Knights in the previous verse who were from the 12th century, and here state that the time is in the 7th. Indeed the Synod of Whitby is important here, but I wonder if I have missed something wit my history here?

umbilical spirit....sea. - loved this line.

11
Together in heart but smitten
the great dyke offered hope and permanence
etched forever the land was bitten
bracing dragons eminence
castles fortified in regretful prominence
the battle not ended but only begun
the Saxon foxes did surely run.
"Etched.....bitten" - Nice refernce to Offa's Dyke, whcih, when looked at properly, does look slightly as thoug it was bitten. I spent quite a while on the Dyke Hiking from one end to the other last year. got to know it pretty well
12
Merlin summoned a Prince so brave
and bestowed upon him the gift of nation,
the sovereign soil was his to save,
the Cymry spirit in adulation.
Mercians fell with consternation,
asleep in their graves in the dust of the dyke,
a moment of glory was revered respite.


13
The great law of Hywel did protect
the children of the land.
Few joined with evil King defect
partners and servants at hand.
Welsh fortress wept and turned to sand
The dragon was wounded deeper
by the spear of the keeper.

Nice reference here to Hywel Da. Yu might want to refernce Ifor Williams poem 'Armes Prydein' here too, which "called for the Welsh to join a confederation of all the non-English peoples of Britain and Ireland to fight the Saxons. The poem may well be linked to the alliance of Norse and Celtic kingdoms which challenged Athelstan at the Battle of Brunanburh in 937. No Welsh forces joined this alliance, and this may well have been because of the influence of Hywel; on the other hand neither did he send troops to support Athelstan."[Wikipedia] Incidently, there is also a mention of Myrddin (Merlin) in this poem too.
14
From inferno’s heat,
justice of heaven proved best,
with the serpent beat,
the Dragon summoned bards to his chest
to celebrate chairing in the west,
to the melodia of harpists and pipers breath
the dust danced in the tunnels of death.
Inferno - perhaps another accidental reference, this time to Dante's 'Inferno' from the 'Divine Comedy'? Works well.

I like the way you bring in the history and chronologica movement so well. Now we are in the 12th century I believe, with Lord Rhys of Cardigan, and his eisteddfod in 1176, after paying a tribute to Henry II.

15
Fortresses of sinful dark magic grew from the soil,
fornication scorched the land dire,
the demon forced the dragon to toil
then breathed glorious fire
onto the towers which rose on higher.
When the false king relented to the Prince,
the dragon stood proud in acquiescence.
16
With his lords from the east
came the apocryphal king,
aided and summoned by Judas the beast,
whose mercenaries and vagabonds did bring
a sword to cut the tongue of those who would sing.
The dragon dismayed by void of reason,
bled deeply from the wounds of dirty treason.

You might before this point want to mention the civil war as a result of a power struggle in Gwynedd, which then lead to the arrival of Llywelyn fawr. This is a pretty important part of Welsh history. The death of Llywelyn a the hands of the English is also important.

I think that you references to towers and apocryphal Kings and princes and Judas etc may be a bit too vague, and need explaining. I think I know what you mean, but that's because I am well versed on Wlesh History. Not everybody might understand.


17
The alien words of Rhuddlan did belch
from the iron ring fortress deprave,
the heart and the soul was ripped from the Welsh
and the old souls screamed from the grave.
The old way replaced with laws from the knave,
Sais justice and taxes, Longshanks and law,
the future looked bleak and culturally poor.[/quote]

Again, a very good propegation of Welsh history with the mention of Rhuddlan, which then of course conotes Edward the Ist

Looking forward to more.

Gareth
Amadeus
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:28 pm

Amadeus wrote:
9
The warriors of Merlin the magic seer
fought Teutonic invaders with courage and pride
and truculent glory devoid of fear,
a chorus was sung when pagans died
who could not run with nowhere to hide.
And the Cymry ate triumphant in glorious feast,
rejoicing, in slaying the satanic beast.


Merlin - just a point of interest that you might want to cosider - the name Merlin originates in Welsh folklore. Merlin is based on a Wesh myth of a guy called 'Myrddin'. Here's something from Wiki:

The earliest (pre-12th century) Welsh poems concerning the Myrddin legend present him as a madman living a wretched existence in the Caledonian Forest, ruminating on his former existence and the disaster that brought him low: the death of his lord Gwenddoleu, whom he served as bard. The allusions in these poems serve to sketch out the events of the Battle of Arfderydd, where Riderch Hael, King of Alt Clut (Strathclyde) slaughtered the forces of Gwenddoleu, and Myrddin went mad watching this defeat. The Annales Cambriae date this battle to AD 573 and name Gwenddoleu's adversaries as the sons of Eliffer, presumably Gwrgi and Peredur.


Is Satanic appropriate here?It does show a sense of Irony in that the pagans view the Christians as Satanic, but I thin Satanic is a bitt ott, and perhaps a pagan link to hell would be more appropriate?
10
Six hundred and sixty four arias did battle resume
whence the false prophet was chanted to dust
a Cymry spirit in heaven consume,
as messenger of magicians trust.
umbilical spirit of Britons adjust
was severed across the sea.

Decisive crime in this time by the heathens in Whitby.
Bit of a chronological issue here - you reference the Teutonic Knights in the previous verse who were from the 12th century, and here state that the time is in the 7th. Indeed the Synod of Whitby is important here, but I wonder if I have missed something wit my history here?

umbilical spirit....sea. - loved this line.

11
Together in heart but smitten
the great dyke offered hope and permanence
etched forever the land was bitten
bracing dragons eminence
castles fortified in regretful prominence
the battle not ended but only begun
the Saxon foxes did surely run.
"Etched.....bitten" - Nice refernce to Offa's Dyke, whcih, when looked at properly, does look slightly as thoug it was bitten. I spent quite a while on the Dyke Hiking from one end to the other last year. got to know it pretty well
12
Merlin summoned a Prince so brave
and bestowed upon him the gift of nation,
the sovereign soil was his to save,
the Cymry spirit in adulation.
Mercians fell with consternation,
asleep in their graves in the dust of the dyke,
a moment of glory was revered respite.

13
The great law of Hywel did protect
the children of the land.
Few joined with evil King defect
partners and servants at hand.
Welsh fortress wept and turned to sand
The dragon was wounded deeper
by the spear of the keeper.
Nice reference here to Hywel Da. Yu might want to refernce Ifor Williams poem 'Armes Prydein' here too, which "called for the Welsh to join a confederation of all the non-English peoples of Britain and Ireland to fight the Saxons. The poem may well be linked to the alliance of Norse and Celtic kingdoms which challenged Athelstan at the Battle of Brunanburh in 937. No Welsh forces joined this alliance, and this may well have been because of the influence of Hywel; on the other hand neither did he send troops to support Athelstan."[Wikipedia] Incidently, there is also a mention of Myrddin (Merlin) in this poem too.
14
From inferno’s heat,
justice of heaven proved best,
with the serpent beat,
the Dragon summoned bards to his chest
to celebrate chairing in the west,
to the melodia of harpists and pipers breath
the dust danced in the tunnels of death.
Inferno - perhaps another accidental reference, this time to Dante's 'Inferno' from the 'Divine Comedy'? Works well.

I like the way you bring in the history and chronologica movement so well. Now we are in the 12th century I believe, with Lord Rhys of Cardigan, and his eisteddfod in 1176, after paying a tribute to Henry II.

15
Fortresses of sinful dark magic grew from the soil,
fornication scorched the land dire,
the demon forced the dragon to toil
then breathed glorious fire
onto the towers which rose on higher.
When the false king relented to the Prince,
the dragon stood proud in acquiescence.
16
With his lords from the east
came the apocryphal king,
aided and summoned by Judas the beast,
whose mercenaries and vagabonds did bring
a sword to cut the tongue of those who would sing.
The dragon dismayed by void of reason,
bled deeply from the wounds of dirty treason.
You might before this point want to mention the civil war as a result of a power struggle in Gwynedd, which then lead to the arrival of Llywelyn fawr. This is a pretty important part of Welsh history. The death of Llywelyn a the hands of the English is also important.

I think that you references to towers and apocryphal Kings and princes and Judas etc may be a bit too vague, and need explaining. I think I know what you mean, but that's because I am well versed on Wlesh History. Not everybody might understand.

17
The alien words of Rhuddlan did belch
from the iron ring fortress deprave,
the heart and the soul was ripped from the Welsh
and the old souls screamed from the grave.
The old way replaced with laws from the knave,
Sais justice and taxes, Longshanks and law,
the future looked bleak and culturally poor.
Again, a very good propegation of Welsh history with the mention of Rhuddlan, which then of course conotes Edward the Ist

Looking forward to more.

Gareth
Amadeus
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Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:29 pm

Merlin wrote:As far as I know - it's simply; critic :mrgreen: :shock: or Literary Critic :shock:
That;s what I thought, but I was hoping there'd be something better lol.

Gaz
Merlin
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Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:37 am

Not used - replaced
12
Black Viking thwarted by Gwynedd king
to dust was sent the pagan black,
rejoice and merry skies did sing
the Cymry land they could not sack,
courage, pride, ardour not lack.
Victory and joy did bring
Rhodri Mawr, the Gwynedd king.
not used – replaced

I have changed my mind on the above stanza, and do think I ought to keep it (although I have changed it a little – to make it clearer)…

9
The warriors of Merlin the magic seer
fought Teutonic invaders with courage and pride
and truculent glory devoid of fear,
a chorus was sung when pagans died
who could not run with nowhere to hide.
And the Cymry ate triumphant in glorious feast,
rejoicing, in slaying the satanic beast.

Merlin - just a point of interest that you might want to cosider - the name Merlin originates in Welsh folklore. Merlin is based on a Wesh myth of a guy called 'Myrddin'.

Yeah – knew this one – I was in two-minds , and still am whether to use Myrddin or Merlin – I did plump for Merlin…but may revert to Myrddin – not least as it’s my grandfathers name…. :lol:

Is Satanic appropriate here?It does show a sense of Irony in that the pagans view the Christians as Satanic, but I thin Satanic is a bitt ott, and perhaps a pagan link to hell would be more appropriate?
It may be over the top – agree – but I do tend to throw a few of these in,( in things I write)…It is meant to be irony, and a case of throwing it back, as it were – but also in the sense of not so much that satanic beast refers to evil beast – but more to an opposite force….the dualism thing….from a Welsh point of view - of course…
Ah makes sense now lol. Personally, I'd be wary of using Duw here, as it kind of contradicts the contrats between pntheism and monotheism. Then again, this might be a ce little sub-message of the poem - that it doesn't realy matter (although obviously to the people invlved, it does. This is kind of what Heaney says)

Yeah…it is kinda supporting the mono stand, and critics may say that the poem has shot itself in the foot… ….if indeed it is pro-pantheism..

BUT….we cant get away from contradictions in any area of our life, history or culture (imo)…and of course the poem wouldn’t be about Wales at all, with out at least one mention of St David…..I only want him here as being synonymous, a spirit , a guiding force even – almost symbolic……Not forgetting , he hardly represents/mirrors the people of Wales – how many Welsh teetotal , vegetarians advocating asceticism do you know?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

10
Six hundred and sixty four arias did battle resume
whence the false prophet was chanted to dust
a Cymry spirit in heaven consume,
as messenger of magicians trust.
umbilical spirit of Britons adjust
was severed across the sea.
Decisive crime in this time by the heathens in Whitby.


Bit of a chronological issue here - you reference the Teutonic Knights in the previous verse who were from the 12th century, and here state that the time is in the 7th. Indeed the Synod of Whitby is important here, but I wonder if I have missed something wit my history here?

Ah – I see your point….I didn’t actually mean to reference the Teutonic Knights, only Teutonic people(s) in general – I thought it may have been OK to use is as synonymous with the Teutonic east – the Brythonic west and Gallic north….I will look at clearing that-up….
:shock:

Nice reference here to Hywel Da. Yu might want to refernce Ifor Williams poem 'Armes Prydein' here too, which "called for the Welsh to join a confederation of all the non-English peoples of Britain and Ireland to fight the Saxons. The poem may well be linked to the alliance of Norse and Celtic kingdoms which challenged Athelstan at the Battle of Brunanburh in 937. No Welsh forces joined this alliance, and this may well have been because of the influence of Hywel; on the other hand neither did he send troops to support Athelstan."[Wikipedia] Incidently, there is also a mention of Myrddin (Merlin) in this poem too.

I knew of Brunanburh – but not the poem (had heard about it , but never really read it)…will look at working a reference in here – somewhere….
Inferno - perhaps another accidental reference, this time to Dante's 'Inferno' from the 'Divine Comedy'? Works well.
Ah – now I have read Dante’s Inferno , but didn’t purposely reference it….

:twisted:

I like the way you bring in the history and chronologica movement so well. Now we are in the 12th century I believe, with Lord Rhys of Cardigan, and his eisteddfod in 1176, after paying a tribute to Henry II.
Yeah – 12th Century…

15
Fortresses of sinful dark magic grew from the soil,
fornication scorched the land dire,
the demon forced the dragon to toil
then breathed glorious fire
onto the towers which rose on higher.
When the false king relented to the Prince,
the dragon stood proud in acquiescence.


16
With his lords from the east
came the apocryphal king,
aided and summoned by Judas the beast,
whose mercenaries and vagabonds did bring
a sword to cut the tongue of those who would sing.
The dragon dismayed by void of reason,
bled deeply from the wounds of dirty treason.

You might before this point want to mention the civil war as a result of a power struggle in Gwynedd, which then lead to the arrival of Llywelyn fawr. This is a pretty important part of Welsh history. The death of Llywelyn a the hands of the English is also important.
Yes – I do need to bring in Llywelyn the Great, however, I am a little confused :shock: …I understood that he died of natural causes and not at the hands of the English… :?:
Unless you mean (which I think you do) :lol: … LLYWELYN AP GRUFFUDD....


I think that you references to towers and apocryphal Kings and princes and Judas etc may be a bit too vague, and need explaining. I think I know what you mean, but that's because I am well versed on Wlesh History. Not everybody might understand.
This is a reference to the times of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd – with the kinda treason :roll: by minor Welsh princes :roll: , the in-fighting etc :roll: ….

17
The alien words of Rhuddlan did belch
from the iron ring fortress deprave,
the heart and the soul was ripped from the Welsh
and the old souls screamed from the grave.
The old way replaced with laws from the knave,
Sais justice and taxes, Longshanks and law,
the future looked bleak and culturally poor.[/quote]

Again, a very good propegation of Welsh history with the mention of Rhuddlan, which then of course conotes Edward the Ist

Yes…..now this is an interesting time – very sad time for Wales (at least at the start of Longshanks reign)…but in saying that, irony plays her part come the Battle of Bosworth – when of course Wales and the Welsh play a huge part in ending the Plantagenet line…. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gareth,
Thanks so much for your feedback – I am finding it of great help -…..
My current plan is to continue writing the poem – as a first draft….get it to at least a decent presentable, and interesting read stage…then go back and fill in the inevitable gaps….. :roll:
Of course, I am trying to be original, which is difficult when your writing about historical events – in a chronological way to boot…and I want to totally avoid the textbook feel this may give readers….if indeed I am lucky enough to get any readers (other than the forum)…
:lol: In addition to this of course, there’s the usual conflict resolution :roll: and the bringing together of all the contradictions in the poem :roll: – again which is difficult in this type of write…but I have something in mind :twisted: ……..
Merlin
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Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:27 am

Just two stanzas added 18 and 19
Merlin
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Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:49 pm

21,22 , 23 , 24 ,25 and 26 added :shock:
Amadeus
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Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:54 am

Oooh almost there!! :shock: :shock: I'll come back to them later after work.

G
Merlin
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Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:03 pm

more than 2/3 there now , G..(I think :mrgreen: ). :roll: :roll: :wink:

27, 28 and 29 added
Merlin
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Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:36 am

30, added :shock:
Amadeus
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Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:57 am

My appologies for the delay in responding. Just been very tired after lots of work.
Merlin wrote:Not used - replaced
12
Black Viking thwarted by Gwynedd king
to dust was sent the pagan black,
rejoice and merry skies did sing
the Cymry land they could not sack,
courage, pride, ardour not lack.
Victory and joy did bring
Rhodri Mawr, the Gwynedd king.
not used – replaced

I have changed my mind on the above stanza, and do think I ought to keep it (although I have changed it a little – to make it clearer)…
You might want to reconsider the rhye's here. They're a little bit cringeworthy as you have had to alter the sentance structure to accomodate them i.e.pagan black, did bring, etc.

Nice reference here to Hywel Da. Yu might want to refernce Ifor Williams poem 'Armes Prydein' here too, which "called for the Welsh to join a confederation of all the non-English peoples of Britain and Ireland to fight the Saxons. The poem may well be linked to the alliance of Norse and Celtic kingdoms which challenged Athelstan at the Battle of Brunanburh in 937. No Welsh forces joined this alliance, and this may well have been because of the influence of Hywel; on the other hand neither did he send troops to support Athelstan."[Wikipedia] Incidently, there is also a mention of Myrddin (Merlin) in this poem too.
I knew of Brunanburh – but not the poem (had heard about it , but never really read it)…will look at working a reference in here – somewhere….[/colour]


I'll see if I can find a copy for you.

Yes – I do need to bring in Llywelyn the Great, however, I am a little confused :shock: …I understood that he died of natural causes and not at the hands of the English… :?:
Unless you mean (which I think you do) :lol: … LLYWELYN AP GRUFFUDD....


Oops, there's me messing up my history again lol. sorry

This is a reference to the times of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd – with the kinda treason :roll: by minor Welsh princes :roll: , the in-fighting etc :roll: ….


I thought it may have been something like that, although the meaning, at least for me, was quite uncear.


Yes…..now this is an interesting time – very sad time for Wales (at least at the start of Longshanks reign)…but in saying that, irony plays her part come the Battle of Bosworth – when of course Wales and the Welsh play a huge part in ending the Plantagenet line…. :lol: :lol: :lol:


GO WALES! :P

Gareth,
Thanks so much for your feedback – I am finding it of great help -…..
My current plan is to continue writing the poem – as a first draft….get it to at least a decent presentable, and interesting read stage…then go back and fill in the inevitable gaps….. :roll:
Of course, I am trying to be original, which is difficult when your writing about historical events – in a chronological way to boot…and I want to totally avoid the textbook feel this may give readers….if indeed I am lucky enough to get any readers (other than the forum)…
:lol: In addition to this of course, there’s the usual conflict resolution :roll: and the bringing together of all the contradictions in the poem :roll: – again which is difficult in this type of write…but I have something in mind :twisted: ……..


No problem. I'm enjoying it. You have undertaken a huge task, and I must say that you historical accuracy is astounding.

I will come back t the new verses ater.

Gareth
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