Children - Pantoum

[satyr]

Children crying in the dark, starving on the dirty street
Children playing in the park, mum's watching from the bench
The world is unfair, but that's the way it's always been
Don't change the way things are, that's the way we like it

Children playing in the park, mum's watching from the bench
The rich aren't hungry, why should they care about the waifs
Don't change the way things are, that's the way we like it
The greater the difference between them and us the better

The rich aren't hungry, why should they care about the waifs
We aren't greedy, look at how much we give to charity
The greater the difference between them and us the better
We go to watch the dirty urchins grub on the rubbish heap

We aren't greedy, look at how much we give to charity
Liberals try to change the world, to make it a better place
We go to watch the dirty urchins grub on the rubbish heap
They aren't really human, it's all their own fault you know

Liberals try to change the world, to make it a better place
String up the pinko pigs, they want to spoil our thing
They aren't really human, it's all their own fault you know
We've got the army, the police and the big bombs on our side

String up the pinko pigs, they want to spoil our thing
Send out the dogs to hunt down the ugly gutter snipes
We've got the army, the police and all the big bombs
We've even got the Church and God on our side

So don't listen to the voice of conscience or compassion
The world is unfair, but that's the way it's always been
We like ostentatious extravagance and spitting on the paupers
Children crying in the dark, starving on the dirty street

[satyr]

Is it that my poem is so awful that no-one wants to comment on it, or is the pantoum form that puts people of this one?

[Ros]

Hmm. I think people do find the stricter forms difficult to crit. Particularly with a pantoum, it's hard to get a sense of progression with the enforced repetition. I think you've mostly avoided that trap here - there is progression of theme. Unfortunately, I find the theme a bit tub-thumping and unoriginal, and the repetition emphasises that (though that was partly intended, I would imagine). Your images, for me, are too general and cliched to have much personal appeal. I guess people don't like being harangued, and that's how this comes over.

Ros

[satyr]

Thank you for your reply, Ros. I would say that the pantoum is one of the more fun 'forms' to play with but once you start down a 'theme' you are stuck on it.

I had been watching Panorama about the use of child labour in India and the Far East when I wrote this. Perhaps I'd better not post any polemics about the ecology then:).

[Ros]

Oh, I'm not arguing about the morality of your causes - just that, as with all these things, if you can add the personal or the specific, people empathise more with it. There's certainly plenty to be cross about.

[Pauline]

Your poem is not awful at all Satyr.
I have never heard of a Pantoum, so I looked it up and came back to your poem and realised just what is was you were doing repeating the 2nd and 4th line and replacing them to the 1st and 3rd in the following verse.
Very clever stuff.
Listen, I am crap at crits. I just never seem to find the right words to say. I Know what I am thinking but it comes out all jumbled up and I am afraid of showing myself up, so I tend to say nothing, and then I could kick myself because I have let a good piece go by, and I didn't tell the writer just what I got from their poem.
Often I log on to say something, get all tongue tied and log off again.
So please bare with me if I go off in tangents, but I just wanted you to know that this poem touched me.
I also feel that we live in a very unfair and corrupt world.
It rings true to me that the division between rich and poor will always be there.
What galls me is all these mega rich pop/tv/film stars doing "Live Aid, and Comic Relief" stints, getting us working class people (who are often struggling with their own financial battles, just trying to get through the week) donating to underprivileged countries, when they have more money than they could ever spend (and are claiming frigging expenses when they do their little video tape on TV) and then the government tax you on your donation.
Don't get me wrong, I am willing to help anyone in need, (and I often do on a personal level) as I am sure a lot of people are, but sometimes it is easier to turn a blind eye and hope that everything will work out ok. Someone will sort it.
I would like to think that we could change.
Wouldn't that be great.
I found your poem very thought provoking.
Thanks Satyr.

[satyr]

Thank you, Pauline. I had wondered about deleting this piece from here but I won't now. I think the 'fat cats' I was feeling most annoyed about was the juxtaposition of bankers who at that time were starting to make huge bonuses again out of the kids in the factories, and the exploitation of the third world that was driving this world recovery, and people who just went and bought cheap items without questioning were they came from or who worked on them. I appreciate your feedback.

[Pauline]

No, don't delete it.
You have a strong message to put across.
Hey, there is so much shit going on in this world.
We need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Life is for living.
It's not about what we have got , it's about what we can give.

[offelias]

Hey..

I like the topic of the poem and the format you've used.. but even after reading about the technique I find that something still doesn't flow.
Could be the way I read perhaps. To me, there seems to be a lack of rhythm keeping connection throughout, although obviously there is the connection between the verses. Might be wrong.. just my 2c

Good job though and well done for trying something out.
I learnt something new

[Lake]

Hi S,

I think you have a good command of the language and I'm not against the subject and theme. It shows how you care about the children, the society. It's a good thing. Honestly, when I read a poem when it is lablled as a certain form, my attention is immediately drawn to its structure, the meter, the rhyme etc. other than the contents. It is just me and I can't help. I should learn how a form enhances the idea.

Cheers,

Lake

[BenJohnson]

I've taken a long time to eventually comment on this, I need several more hours to a day at the moment. I have popped in to read it several times. The form has me very interested since they are a particular love of mine.

This is probably the freest pantoum I have seen. In strict form it has a rhyme scheme A,B,A,B - B,C,B,C , etc until the end where is goes Z,A,Z,A. You seem to have ditched the rhyme scheme, though at times there appears to be slant rhyme been - street or snipes - side, etc. You haven't stuck with strictly repeated lines either the last stanza lines 1 and 3 don't pick up from the previous stanza at all. The stanza above has altered the lines from the one above.

The variation from the standard is interesting and causes me to wonder whether it is intentional or started as a pantoum but decided it wanted to break free a bit. It is one of the more difficult forms to tackle and succeed with though dogofdiogenes posted a good example here recently viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13203.

I won't comment on the content since I think the other comments have pretty much touched on what I would have to say.

[satyr]

Ben,
I think that in the original Pantoums were unrhymed but some of the European poets do use rhyme schemes. I decided to drop end-rhymes but I frequently use rhymes hidden or embedded in the lines and I guess a few slipped in here:).

The only place I dropped the form was the last stanza:

So don't listen to the voice of conscience or compassion
The world is unfair, but that's the way it's always been
We like ostentatious extravagance and spitting on the paupers
Children crying in the dark, starving on the dirty street

Here the last line is the first line of the first stanza and the second line is the third line of the first stanza but, in this version, I don't use the two lines from the last stanza that I should have done because I wanted to underline the 'social conscience' point. Originally I kept to the form all the way through.

Oh, btw, I think there is a variation of the rhyme scheme that you mention that is fiendishly difficult, possibly abba ... My own view is that 'political' pantoums are/were used as agitprop for anti-colonial and/or other political reasons and frequently don't rhyme, ones about love and nature can and frequently do:). However, as this was my first attempt at the form I was experimenting as I went along.

[BenJohnson]

You are right about the early Pantuns, the descriptions I've read of them are very different beasts to the form in use today. I find the liberties you have taken with the form add interest, the reader picks up the repeat lines and thinks pantoum, but then realised the missing end rhyme and things free form pantoum, then hits the last stanza which mixes it up again.

P.S. just noticed the South Downs on your profile, where about are you from?

[satyr]

Emsworth, half way between Portsmouth and Chichester. I see you are in the New Forest. Do you ever come up this way?

[BenJohnson]

Fairly often, my parents live at Brighton and my sister just outside Arundel.