When ugly old Age catches up with you,
And wraps Her arms of Alzheimers, or Parkinsons disease around you;
Or some other brain or bone deteriorating malady -
Who will stop! - and be a Nightingale to thee?
For we all (if wicked Death is not swifter), will be caught by ugly Age,
And bear the wrath - of Senility's rage!
Our ears will clog and our eyes will dim,
As we struggle to see through plastic rims..
..In this money-driven world, can we really expect
To burden our busy youth?
Or should egocentric politicians
Go face to face with ruth?
For it is to these poor old folk,
Who fought in Great Wars (sacrificing blood, sweat and tears),
That these greedy Hypocrites owe their poke
- and grubby little pilfering careers!
Aftercare
Well Richard I confess to an "hmmmmmm" moment here. Apologies for what follows, but I have read this a half dozen times and have different thoughts each time). I am sure they will appear muddled.
I see a strong and very interesting start with some very good images regarding old age as an impending, unavoidable and bleak future (although I hope that I tend to be somewhat more hopeful! It struck me as a stark contrast to Thomas' "Do not go gentle into that good night... "). After that, I am not sure where this one got to, to be honest. It went where I least expected it too, although the title ought to have warned me.
Senility, Alzheimers etc are strong words..... but "plastic rims' in the last line seems much a less powerful descriptive. Many young people wear glasses and I'd prefer something a lot stronger as a closing to this part. I also can't visualize senilty as "raging". maybe "solitude" or "isolation"?
But the reversion to the past in the second verse, and a commentary on the treatment of those who fought in the Great Wars, with a corresponding condemnation of politicians has me scratching my head. I'd rather see a reconciliation of the question. "Who will ..... be a nightingale to thee". Perhaps there won't be one.... ie. loneliness, frustration.
Finally, I found odd, the mix of modern usage ("pilfering careers", "egocentric"), with more classical terms ("malady"', wrath", "nightingale", "wicked death" "thee", "blood, sweat and tears"). That said, I think the classical terms (if I am correct in describing them so) are an interesting choice with respect to the subject.
There is a lot of promise in this poem Richard, I'd be very interested to hear what inspired you to write this.
I see a strong and very interesting start with some very good images regarding old age as an impending, unavoidable and bleak future (although I hope that I tend to be somewhat more hopeful! It struck me as a stark contrast to Thomas' "Do not go gentle into that good night... "). After that, I am not sure where this one got to, to be honest. It went where I least expected it too, although the title ought to have warned me.
Senility, Alzheimers etc are strong words..... but "plastic rims' in the last line seems much a less powerful descriptive. Many young people wear glasses and I'd prefer something a lot stronger as a closing to this part. I also can't visualize senilty as "raging". maybe "solitude" or "isolation"?
But the reversion to the past in the second verse, and a commentary on the treatment of those who fought in the Great Wars, with a corresponding condemnation of politicians has me scratching my head. I'd rather see a reconciliation of the question. "Who will ..... be a nightingale to thee". Perhaps there won't be one.... ie. loneliness, frustration.
Finally, I found odd, the mix of modern usage ("pilfering careers", "egocentric"), with more classical terms ("malady"', wrath", "nightingale", "wicked death" "thee", "blood, sweat and tears"). That said, I think the classical terms (if I am correct in describing them so) are an interesting choice with respect to the subject.
There is a lot of promise in this poem Richard, I'd be very interested to hear what inspired you to write this.
"Poetry's unnat'ral; no man ever talked poetry 'cept a beadle on boxin' day, or Warren's blackin' or Rowland's oil, or some o' them low fellows; never you let yourself down to talk poetry, my boy." C. Dickens
Hi there...
I'm going to echo the comments about modern/classical - particularly 'ruth'. Lovely word, and I've no problems with archaisms, but it sticks out like a sore thumb here.
Putting content aside, the form of S1 is interesting. Good on the page, with different lines lengths and rhymes adding more to cadence than actual rhyming sake. (would lines 7 and 8 maybe benefit with a bit of tweaking, as they are the only rhyming couplet proper? Mind you, they do draw the stanza to a close, and the second part is obviously a different intent.) ((different voice?)) Maybe a brushing up on the metre of S1 would be in order to make it read a bit smoother - Getting rid of "disease" and tweaking "(if wicked Death is not swifter)" perhaps.
Okay, so that was a bit garbled. I guess what I'm trying to say is make this more deliberately a piece in two parts. S1 a more classical roving expedition, S2 a more to the point statement with modern, clinical language...
Just a few thoughts.
I'm going to echo the comments about modern/classical - particularly 'ruth'. Lovely word, and I've no problems with archaisms, but it sticks out like a sore thumb here.
Putting content aside, the form of S1 is interesting. Good on the page, with different lines lengths and rhymes adding more to cadence than actual rhyming sake. (would lines 7 and 8 maybe benefit with a bit of tweaking, as they are the only rhyming couplet proper? Mind you, they do draw the stanza to a close, and the second part is obviously a different intent.) ((different voice?)) Maybe a brushing up on the metre of S1 would be in order to make it read a bit smoother - Getting rid of "disease" and tweaking "(if wicked Death is not swifter)" perhaps.
Okay, so that was a bit garbled. I guess what I'm trying to say is make this more deliberately a piece in two parts. S1 a more classical roving expedition, S2 a more to the point statement with modern, clinical language...
Just a few thoughts.
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ray miller
- Perspicacious Poster
- Posts: 7482
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:23 am
I thought there were lots to like in the first half, a bit less in the 2nd. I could live without the capitalisation of Death, Senility, Age etc. You don't really need "disease" after Parkinsons, I don't think. The Nightingale line is lovely, though for me it would read as well without the exclamation and hyphen.Sandbanx questioned whether senility rages. It can, most certainly can.
Whilst I wholly agree with the sentiments expressed in the 2nd verse, I think they aren't as well put. Youth and ruth appear very rhyme- driven yet you haven't bothered, or weren't able to rhyme 1st and 3rd lines at all.Plus, I think there needs be more of a bridge between the two verses.
Whilst I wholly agree with the sentiments expressed in the 2nd verse, I think they aren't as well put. Youth and ruth appear very rhyme- driven yet you haven't bothered, or weren't able to rhyme 1st and 3rd lines at all.Plus, I think there needs be more of a bridge between the two verses.
I'm out of faith and in my cups
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
I contemplate such bitter stuff.
Some powerful stuff in here. It's a very bleak portrayal of old age I must say. Not sure about the use of thee. And I found myself wondering who "Ruth" was for a couple of seconds ( I got there in the end though) 
Those pesky politicians could certainly do with remembering why we put them in office sometimes. The blighters!
There are some slightly odd capitals, but overall I much enjoyed the read.
Those pesky politicians could certainly do with remembering why we put them in office sometimes. The blighters!
There are some slightly odd capitals, but overall I much enjoyed the read.
I am not a number ... I am a FREE man!
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Nash
I really like your use of capitalisation here Richard, sort of personifies the conditions, makes them into demons in that 19th Century way. I think that 'thee' could be an archaism too far though.
I definitely agree with Sandbanx about the ending of the first stanza, plastic rims does seem a bit of an anti-climax after the huge issues that precede it.
I'm not so enamoured with the second stanza, to me it reads totally differently to the first, this could of course be intentional, but it does seem a little too preachy for my tastes.
I definitely agree with Sandbanx about the ending of the first stanza, plastic rims does seem a bit of an anti-climax after the huge issues that precede it.
I'm not so enamoured with the second stanza, to me it reads totally differently to the first, this could of course be intentional, but it does seem a little too preachy for my tastes.
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Richardthelionheart
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:52 pm
Thanks everyone for your invaluable time and wonderful critiques. This forum is really making me think about my work, and whilst I don't agree with all your criticisms, I do value them. In response to said criticisms:
The poem as a whole was meant to portray the coming of old age and its related dilemmas/ailments (stanza 1), and the help (or 'lack of' in this case) that you'll receive from the State.
POOR old folk do not wear gold-framed spectacles. Indeed, mostly they are broken plastic ones usually held together by sticking tape or elastoplasts - oddly, I thought this was the strongest point of the whole piece.
Senility's rage - when pensioners become confused through their inability to remember things, and lose their temper in frustration.
The reversion to the past in the second stanza, is to show how much these people gave to their country, and how little they get in return!
What was my inspiration? - My ex-father-in-law and his broken plastic glasses, that kept falling down when he was reading the papers. Amusing to most of the family, but pitiful to me.
The use of modern/archaic words or language; if a word exists in the English language (be it new or old), is it not there to be used? If not, what is it's purpose?
Point taken on use of 'disease' after Parkinsons. Thanks for that one.
Also the lack of rhyme in lines 1and 3 in stanza 2, I'll re-draught to my original, which for some strange reason I changed when posting, thanks.
Re; the capitalization of the 'immortals' - had this discussion on a different thread. Wilfred Owen uses capitals in most of his work (e.g. - The End), but it has been shown to me that other poets do not use them. Surely this is down to opinion/preference? Personally, I think it makes a piece more powerful.
I used the hyphen after 'stop!' because I wanted a long break after it to give the reader time to think about who will help them in their old age, before going on to the connecting point of a 'quality' nurse.
Hope my replies help you in the understanding. Thanks again for your valuable time and critique, much appreciated. Lionheart
The poem as a whole was meant to portray the coming of old age and its related dilemmas/ailments (stanza 1), and the help (or 'lack of' in this case) that you'll receive from the State.
POOR old folk do not wear gold-framed spectacles. Indeed, mostly they are broken plastic ones usually held together by sticking tape or elastoplasts - oddly, I thought this was the strongest point of the whole piece.
Senility's rage - when pensioners become confused through their inability to remember things, and lose their temper in frustration.
The reversion to the past in the second stanza, is to show how much these people gave to their country, and how little they get in return!
What was my inspiration? - My ex-father-in-law and his broken plastic glasses, that kept falling down when he was reading the papers. Amusing to most of the family, but pitiful to me.
The use of modern/archaic words or language; if a word exists in the English language (be it new or old), is it not there to be used? If not, what is it's purpose?
Point taken on use of 'disease' after Parkinsons. Thanks for that one.
Also the lack of rhyme in lines 1and 3 in stanza 2, I'll re-draught to my original, which for some strange reason I changed when posting, thanks.
Re; the capitalization of the 'immortals' - had this discussion on a different thread. Wilfred Owen uses capitals in most of his work (e.g. - The End), but it has been shown to me that other poets do not use them. Surely this is down to opinion/preference? Personally, I think it makes a piece more powerful.
I used the hyphen after 'stop!' because I wanted a long break after it to give the reader time to think about who will help them in their old age, before going on to the connecting point of a 'quality' nurse.
Hope my replies help you in the understanding. Thanks again for your valuable time and critique, much appreciated. Lionheart
I read this poem with interest. Since I am an octogenarian plus, I feel I am qualified to comment on the content.
Fortunately I have none of those nasty things you write about ; they are not universal but living a long time has
many disadvantages such as losing friends and family and going to many funerals. At least we ancients don't have to
worry about global warming. There is no such thing as " oap's. I know three millionaires in good health despite 80 years.
The poem. Previous commentators have commented on the ideas which are excellent but I feel I must
introduce a note of criticism. The poem lacks any kind of form and could benefit greatly from some
compression. "Contractillity is the first grace of style" I know you may think I am old-fashioned etc. etc.
but I think before discarding, rhyme, scansion, forms such as sonnet, lyric etc. one should master them.
The tension between form and content produces great poetry.Sorry to niggle. I did enjoy it
but it could be so much bettter.
Fortunately I have none of those nasty things you write about ; they are not universal but living a long time has
many disadvantages such as losing friends and family and going to many funerals. At least we ancients don't have to
worry about global warming. There is no such thing as " oap's. I know three millionaires in good health despite 80 years.
The poem. Previous commentators have commented on the ideas which are excellent but I feel I must
introduce a note of criticism. The poem lacks any kind of form and could benefit greatly from some
compression. "Contractillity is the first grace of style" I know you may think I am old-fashioned etc. etc.
but I think before discarding, rhyme, scansion, forms such as sonnet, lyric etc. one should master them.
The tension between form and content produces great poetry.Sorry to niggle. I did enjoy it
but it could be so much bettter.
I love the gentleness in the poem, but I must confess I found S2 a bit "telly"! But that does not take away anything from the effort and the thoughtful observations that have been used in it. Maybe, as Petronius has mentioned a bit of 'compression' would add to its glitter. Thanks for sharing.
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Richardthelionheart
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:52 pm
Hello Petronius. Thank you for your much valued time and critique. I would very much enjoy a conversation about some of the comments you make, alas, so little time. It,s your gentle critique I need to enquire of. I am a beginner, here to learn. I want to learn. Anyway, first point - how are you defining 'form'? The poem has a central theme with 2 aspects, thus 2 stanzas. I don't think there is enough there to create a third, yet too much for a single? Can you explain more please? - As for the compression, this began life as 4 stanzas, so you'll appreciate I have already compressed it somewhat. Which points or lines could I omit without affect the poems impetus, rhythm or it's impact? Or is this something one has to discover for oneself? ...... Thanks again for your precious time. Glad you enjoyed. Lionheart.
Greetings Richard.
I suppose I asked for it. I think it took about two years to give my students some conception of form. I suppose ,
although it's a bit of a cop out, the best I can come up with is that it is clear when it isn't there. There are many ready made
forms avaiable : sonnet, limerick,haIku, etc. etc. and it is good training to try one. Perhaps something more concrete
would help. Some principles may help. Always prefer the anglo-saxon. Read your poem aloud. When you are satisfied
that you have created a masterpiece put it away for a week, month year and the read it again. Rhythm and rime can bind a
poem together or can disrupt it. As I said it would take years and I don't think I have too many left. Look at the first two
lines again crtically. "catches up with you" must go. It is clumsy with redundant "up" and " with" Why not :-
When old age comes, an unwanted lover,
and wraps disease around you....
No poet could deal with Alzheimers or Parkinsons or bone deterioring malady. The late Quiller-Couch's dictum :"always prefer
concrete to the abstract" does not apply to poetry. Poetry thrives on ambiguity. I am conscious I have't done much to help
you. Persevere. You have talent. Be prepared for a life of constant failure. Every good poet is not easily satisfied. P.
I suppose I asked for it. I think it took about two years to give my students some conception of form. I suppose ,
although it's a bit of a cop out, the best I can come up with is that it is clear when it isn't there. There are many ready made
forms avaiable : sonnet, limerick,haIku, etc. etc. and it is good training to try one. Perhaps something more concrete
would help. Some principles may help. Always prefer the anglo-saxon. Read your poem aloud. When you are satisfied
that you have created a masterpiece put it away for a week, month year and the read it again. Rhythm and rime can bind a
poem together or can disrupt it. As I said it would take years and I don't think I have too many left. Look at the first two
lines again crtically. "catches up with you" must go. It is clumsy with redundant "up" and " with" Why not :-
When old age comes, an unwanted lover,
and wraps disease around you....
No poet could deal with Alzheimers or Parkinsons or bone deterioring malady. The late Quiller-Couch's dictum :"always prefer
concrete to the abstract" does not apply to poetry. Poetry thrives on ambiguity. I am conscious I have't done much to help
you. Persevere. You have talent. Be prepared for a life of constant failure. Every good poet is not easily satisfied. P.
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Richardthelionheart
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:52 pm
Hello again Petronius. Thank you for your swift response, and on the contrary, you have done much to help. I have much to learn and you have put me on the right path. - I think I understand your defining of form, and will try to keep it in mind when writing. Also, 'poetry thrives on ambiguity', I had never heard this phrase - now its pasted on my wall! - Your opening lines are better than mine, tho I tried to paint Age as a looming witch/ogre - but I get the point. Perhaps I'll never create a masterpiece, but I will enjoy trying. And I am prepared! - You're a fine teacher. I'll look out for your work and try to glean more. Thanks again for your invaluable time and advice. Lionheart.
Hi Richard,
I’m with you on the plastic rims, keep them in.
Like most much preferred S1 to S2. I wasn't keen on the exclamation marks, I don’t think they add much. And I do agree with Petronius about form, but I’m a bit of a stickler for this. For me the only acid test is reading it aloud and feeling it flow (or not), this is really hard when you’ve written it yourself. A bit of beat counting also doesn’t hurt, but this may be terrible advice! Loved Nightingale, didn’t rate Ruth. “Grubby little pilfering careers” to me this just sounds a bit rant-y, also why are hypocritical? Is this really what you mean? Are politicians these days really that different? In fact is anything these days really that different? Perhaps the difficulty with sight is really due to the rosey hue within those plastic rims .
Nicky B.
I’m with you on the plastic rims, keep them in.
Like most much preferred S1 to S2. I wasn't keen on the exclamation marks, I don’t think they add much. And I do agree with Petronius about form, but I’m a bit of a stickler for this. For me the only acid test is reading it aloud and feeling it flow (or not), this is really hard when you’ve written it yourself. A bit of beat counting also doesn’t hurt, but this may be terrible advice! Loved Nightingale, didn’t rate Ruth. “Grubby little pilfering careers” to me this just sounds a bit rant-y, also why are hypocritical? Is this really what you mean? Are politicians these days really that different? In fact is anything these days really that different? Perhaps the difficulty with sight is really due to the rosey hue within those plastic rims
. Nicky B.