Husband, Father, Brother, Son (New version)

[NorwichPoet]

(V2) Updated on combined advice and also some other formats I had been playing with. (V1) This was written a few years ago now, so ignore any sentimentality - please treat it as a piece of writing (you won't hurt my feelings - honest)!

V2
It seemed so simple, words on stone.
Polished faces of cold granite in the catalogue,
demanding name, date, loving statement,
offering first eighty characters free.
My mind as blank as their countenance.
Wine failing to draw inspiration.
It should be easy, yet I think of only four words.
Husband, Father, Brother, Son.

Does this fail him? His ideals? His compassion?
His dreadful warbling baritone
heard over the church choir.
His gangly legs extruding from too short shorts.
Atrocious knitted sweaters bought with delight.
His damp eyes marvelling at our newborn son,
his golden laughter,
his smile.
The way he shoved his glasses on his nose,
how his tongue nudged his moustache when deliberating.
His mediocre lasagnes, his flip-up sunshades.
His determination to build the train on that last Christmas Eve?


.......
V1
It seems such a simple thing to do, the words for the stone.
I stare at the blank face of the cold granite in the catalogue.
I thought it would be easy; name, date, loving statement,
but this man was more than words on a stone.

How can I list the ideals he stood for?
the compassion he had for other people?

His laughter; his dreadful singing voice;
his gangly legs and awful sweaters;
the tears he cried when our son was born,
his smile.
the way he pushed his glasses up his nose,
the way he stuck his tongue out when concentrating,
his mediocre cooking, the flip-up sunshades,
his determination to build the train on that last Christmas Eve?

My mind is blank. I think of only four words.
The most that this loving, funny, passionate man was
to the women and child he has left behind.

In memory of a Husband, Father, Brother, Son.

[Antcliff]

Hi

I'll consider it just as poem then, as you request.

I like the stress on quirks and personal details. For me the best line is one about the train.

Good universal theme I think...doing something with justifying the formulaic expressions on gravestones. Such words seem formulaic...until we need them.

Quibbles. ln.4. I would think everyone is more than words on a stone. So "this man" seems an odd thought. And "left behind" is too formulaic for me. Something else needed there perhaps?

Cheers,
Ant

[NorwichPoet]

Thanks Ant,

Funnily enough, despite re-reading and editing it before I put it here, it wasn't until I posted that I realised I had used the word 'stone' in S1 and S4. Your point about "this man" then fits - though I suppose there was an internal anger that 'this man' was more, and a selfishness in grief that makes you feel you're the only one. But then only I can see that as I am the author - so work to be done on that line.

Glad you like the one about the train as it was the line in that central block that I felt least confident about.

Totally accept that 'left behind' is indeed twee.

Really appreciate that, I shall mull it over and hope for more comment before resubmitting.

Big thanks

[David]

Hi. I like the details too, and the repetition of stone jarred for me as well.

I'm not wild about lines 5 and 6, because they don't seem to relate to the details that follow (and also seem a little wildly eulogistic, although I accept that they may well be completely accurate), and I'm sure you don't really mean the way he pushed his glasses up his nose (although of course I know what you do mean).

The details are very good, though.

Cheers

David

[NorwichPoet]

Hi David

This is what I like about critique - what seems perfectly reasonable to one, can be completely misinterpreted by another! Yes, of course I mean spectacles - why didn't I see that, did make me giggle!

Yes might drop lines 5 & 6 and replace with something more quirky/less eulogistic.

Thanks!

[David]

Yes, it's a tricky thing, this critique. I knew you meant glasses as in spectacles, it's just that I thought that you might need "on" to avoid the other, more comical interpretation - no?

[NorwichPoet]

You're spot on David - except I can't help having an alternative vision (considering it's about my late husband), it's very funny!! I shall amend either to spectacles or on - whichever scans best

[Arian]

Yes, it's obviously heartfelt, though the language strays into overfamiliarity rather too often for my taste. Still, there are some engaging lines. I like the beginning particularly.

Overall, I think about this pretty much what I think about mic's piece of similar inspiration here
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16838

cheers
peter

[NorwichPoet]

language strays into overfamiliarity rather too often

Thanks Arian

As I have said I am a new poet, what do you mean by "language"? Appreciate the feedback. Thanks for the link to the other poem.

NorwichPoet

[RichardSanders]

I was reluctant to provide feedback until I saw your added comment about not considering sentimental aspects.

I like the first section about the words on stone. I do think it could do with some buttoning down.
Something like this perhaps:

It seemed so simple; words on stone
blank granite faces in the catalogue
a name, a date, a loving statement
But mere words on stone deny him.

As for the rest of the poem: I like the idea of naming personal quirks and habits. I like the train thing a lot but the other quirks, strike my as too common and unsurprising to realy give a sense of a unique identity.
Also, to write a poem about this subject I would expect (as reader) to find a rather unique and insightful eulogy as a conclusion instead of the cliché you end with.
I assume you intended the reader to get a sense of who "he" was. I'm sorry but I merely got a general impression of any husband, father. Even the brother and son aspects don't realy come through.
To improve the poem, digg deep and look for things that are uniquely "him".
Some contrast between the cold impassionate and hard granite and his warmth and passion might be a good way to go.
The same goes for the emotionlessness of the catalogue in contrast to the activity of thinking about who "he" was.


Hope it helps.

Kindest,
Richard.

[Ladyhawk]

I like the quirky characteristic from the train image. I can see why line 5 and 6 seem not needed and yet you were reflecting, like arguing with yourself about the way to do this. It is the little things that makes a person unique and I think this has more interest for a number of reasons. The short and abrupt stanza certainly reflects the blow in which news tends to shock people. Like it!

[Arian]

what do you mean by "language"?

er...well, language, really. The words you use and the way you string them together.

the tears he cried
stuck his tongue out
My mind is blank

are some examples of phrases where you might consider trying to find a fresher, less familiar, way to say what you mean. Of course, some "ordinary" language is forgivable, and even desirable, in a poem, but if the piece is dominated by it, it begins to lose (some would argue) poetic value. Saying things in new ways is one of the defining characteristics of a poem.

Cheers
peter

[Antcliff]

the tears he cried
stuck his tongue out
My mind is blank

are some examples of phrases where you might consider trying to find a fresher, less familiar, way to say what you mean. Of course, some "ordinary" language is forgivable, and even desirable, in a poem, but if the piece is dominated by it, it begins to lose (some would argue) poetic value. Saying things in new ways is one of the defining characteristics of a poem.

As Peter nicely says.

If you go back to earlier post it was not so much the "tweeness" of the "left behind" line..a word I did not use...but the formulaic (i.e. very familiar) expression. Notice the lack of that in the (for me) good train line...which says so much more about him and moved me.
Cheers,
Ant.

[NorwichPoet]

My goodness - such feedback!

You have all been so very helpful. Please bare with!

1. I feel the need to take this one straight back to the drawing board - funnily enough 2 things happened tonight which reminded me of a couple of his quirks - so I'll dig deep for more of those.

2. I shall drop the cliches and the "regular" language and look to more interesting ways of saying things.

3. I shall also shortly post a much more recent (and less sentimentally driven) piece and compare the posts here to any comments that may receive.

Thank you all so much!

[NorwichPoet]

One question - does one post a revision (with original) under a completely new thread? Or edit original post?

Thanks
NP

[RichardSanders]

Usually just mark the original V1 and put V2 above it.
You can do so using the edit button. It helps to add (edited) in the title too so people see there is something new.


V2.

.....


V1.

....

[Antcliff]

Hi
Quick learner..
Seems much better to me..
Cheers,
Ant

[RichardSanders]

A giant leap forward if you ask me.
Well done.

Kindest,
Richard

[NorwichPoet]

My goodness, thanks!

Like I say I wrote the original years ago, the emotional detachment from the event these 9 years later (and lots of other poetry writing since) has probably done it good.

Thanks chaps - you've made my day!

[Arian]

Yes, an improvement for sure.

I like the ironic note struck by...

offering first eighty characters free.


Cheers
peter

[Nash]

Hello NP, I don't think we've met before, welcome to the board.

Yes, I'd agree that the new version is an improvement on the original but I still think more could be done with it if you wanted to. S1 seems just slightly choppy to me with all of those single lines ending in full-stops. Are the tenses a little mixed up there too? I'm not an expert on that sort of thing but something seems not quite right to me.

I like the last line, without wishing to delve or bring up bad memories, I'm reading it to mean that he knew that he didn't have long left and he was trying to get everything done? Reminds me of my experiences with my dad a few years ago.

Thanks,
Nash.