Girls

[Halfwrittenpoem]

Little girls blossoming
in a society where
razor hands
cut off rose
laying petals
for culprits to walk.
Too tall, too short,
too curvy or not,
comparing themselves
to airbrushed bodies;
loathing what they've got.
Growing up as the weaker sex-
paid unequally,
groped nonconsensually,
treated discriminately,
dissatisfied sexually;
plotting a quiet revenge
from behind the guise
of a tear stained Kleenex.
Growing up awestruck by
the glossy sheen of magazines,
selling a Fair and Lovely face
that melts away quickly,
due to the rise of acid sales.
Growing up into women
bossy for having an opinion,
neurotic for expressing emotions,
uncouth for raising their voices,
whores for wearing mini skirts.
Growing up into ladies
with a knack for gossip,
with a big mouth claiming
they can do everything
a man can do;
so how come they haven't
successfully oppressed
an entire gender?

[Boat]

Hello, Halfwrittenpoem.

I'm not sure if this is a poem or a speech?

The first six lines I don't get.

The rest seems to be a rant about how unfair the world is for women at the hands of men. Not that original.

Your closing question doesn't make sense to me. Usually the bigger, stronger sex dominates, that's natural and history bares this out. But in the artificial environment that we now live in who's to say that in the future women won't be able to dominate an entire gender given the chance. Some certainly show the inclination to do so now.

Rants about nature are fruitless in my view. If you think that women are hard done by by men go ask a black widow spider how he feels about being eaten by the bigger, stronger, dominant female after mating.

Men don't dominate women because of gender, they do it because they are bigger and stronger. Men dominate other men that are physically weaker than themselves. It's not a gender issue but a size and strength one which is why your closing question makes no sense to me.

Sorry just not my cup of tea.

Regards.

Pat.

[Luce]

I get the impression that this poem got inspired by something, an incident, a piece of history and you became enraged.

Make that the poem. Paint a fresh image. Hammer that image down until it's cold sharp steel.

Yes, it's a tired subject but so is love but it doesn't stop poets from writing about it.

Luce

[Ros]

Not sure what you're trying to do here. You seem to reference some specific cultural practices or activities

razor hands
cut off rose
laying petals

selling a Fair and Lovely face
that melts away quickly,
due to the rise of acid sales.

but in the rest of the poem generalise widely about the experience and thoughts of women as a whole, and then seem to sneer at them all with the ending. Far too many stereotypes for my liking, I'm afraid.

Ros

[JJWilliamson]

Is this referencing the acid attacks, and attacks in general, on girls who spoke out in favour of womens' rights for education and against areas where social, political and domestic inequality existed? You seem to be saying, "If you're so good, how come you're still in the shit". It seems woefully outdated if that's the case. You might be making a serious point, but for the close, where I find myself in agreement with Ros.

There are cultural differences that could carry part of this poem but I'm not sure, at all, if that's your intent. The point of view is also rather skewed, and I don't mean that as a supporter of feminism, but more as an observant citizen. The notion of "It's a man's world" is still pertinent but not to the same degree. In addition I always feel this kind of rant lacks balance, as if the whole world is anti-women. Not all men (or women) would subscribe to this point of view.

I'd focus on the premise and follow that. If you were using humour I'd scratch all of the above because a tongue in cheek onslaught often belies the speaker's intent, and so the point is made by adopting the converse position.

I recognize that I could be missing the point entirely.

Best

JJ

[Pauline]

Whoa! I smell pig here.
Not keen at all with your unoriginal misconception of young girls growing up.
You list steryotypical descriptions of male discrimination.
You offer nothing new/fresh. No empathy.
This stirs me, but not in a good way.
Sorry if I've read it wrong, but that's what I get from this.
It's a long debated subject.
Now if you could put a new slant on it and make it more personal,
then it may make a good read.
Don't sit on the fence, state your case.
Whichever side you chose to land.
Go on, be brave.

[David]

I quite like it, although I was puzzled by the acid sales - I thought of acid attacks, as JJ did.

Cheers

David

[bodkin]

Hi HWP,

This seems straightforward to me: you are bemoaning the unfair risks and pressures that contemporary girls find themselves subject to in various societies.

And at the end you're being ironic about any claim that women have already achieved full equality, and sarcastic about the moral stance of the male gender -- since you're asking why haven't the women done the same bad thing that the men have. The two answers presumably being: (i) because (ironically) they haven't achieved equal power and (ii) and (sarcastically) they wouldn't want to anyway...

So for me your intend is clear and well-intentioned.

As a performance-type, rant poem this seems like it might work well. It's got lots of short punchy lines with direct end rhyming and consonance.

Where it is weak is in the areas already mentioned. e.g. that the images are all rather well used and there's quite a lot that is expressed with a degree of abstraction. e.g

"[you are accused of being] bossy for having an opinion" -- This isn't totally abstract, but without (examples of) an actual accusation, and an actual opinion, it is still abstractly expressed. To get right into the meat of it, you need to show it as a specific occurrence that the reader will extract the moral from for themselves.

Regards,

Ian

[Boat]

You might be right there, Bodkin, if so I might have to revise some of my thoughts.

We'll find out soon hopefully.

[Antcliff]

Hi!

This seems straightforward to me: you are bemoaning the unfair risks and pressures that contemporary girls find themselves subject to in various societies. And at the end you're being ironic about any claim that women have already achieved full equality, and sarcastic about the moral stance of the male gender -- since you're asking why haven't the women done the same bad thing that the men have.

Regards,Ian

Yes, I read this as Ian suggests. Straightforward in complaining about the risks and pressures.

But I think it may be a little too straightforward in some places. I am not sure who the audience would be that doesn't know...

paid unequally,
groped nonconsensually,

And some of the complaints about unfair standards have been extensively aired elsewhere for decades...

Growing up into women
bossy for having an opinion,
neurotic for expressing emotions,
uncouth for raising their voices,
whores for wearing mini skirts.

Of course that is not to say that these complaints about unfair judgements/standards are not well grounded, or the problems not genuine and ongoing. Of course. But don't these bits, as parts of a poem, lack a certain freshness/interesting slant on familiar facts?

Best wishes,
Seth

[Halfwrittenpoem]

Pat, Luce, JJ Williamson, Ros, Pauline, David, Ian, Seth - thank you for taking the time out to read and analyze this piece.
I feel like the message I was trying convey through this rant was not clear enough to most. (Ian and Seth's analysis was spot on, though.) I will try to give a little bit of context as to why I chose to write about this topic if that helps.
I was not inspired by any random incident in the daily newspaper or television(which is common where I am from- India), but with a whole series of violence and discrimination against women that have been piling up one after the other over the time, the pattern to subtle to be noticed.
There is a polarization in society over the topic of woman empowerment and safety- the upper middle class from metropolitan cities have been adopting the western culture of free speech and demanding rights, while the lower middle class and the population below poverty line is still helpless and oppressed regularly. This has created a complete chaos in the justice system and people have been taking law into their own hands.
It's the duality of the society, where the uneducated women of lower social status are being exploited and the blame is being thrown on the feminist women trying to break the gender hierarchy that really inspired this piece.
There is a pressure on woman to be beautiful and presentable and that has become the very excuse to justify most of the rape and molestation cases.
The acid being referred to are acid attacks which are very common in India. Men use it as a revenge against any woman that rejects their romantic proposals.
http://m.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-news ... 7vFXO.html (An article for the same).
I understand the poem was not strong enough for the message to be passed on and I will use critiques to work on the weak areas.
Anymore suggestions are always welcome.
Regards,
HWP.

[JJWilliamson]

A reference to location would make all the difference. In fact if you worked your reply into the poem somehow,
I think you'd be onto a winner. Call upon your knowledge of the social order that currently prevails, the caste system,
if that's applicable, and any modern influences. Make more of the acid attacks. I certainly wasn't aware of this form
of extremism in the way you describe it. Acid mutilation is a terrible crime. And for what?

Change the title and take me to India, where my imagination can run riot.

I would never have nailed the premise the way Ian and Seth did, but I think you have a glorious opportunity here.

Hope to see you revise this piece

Best

JJ

[Luce]

HWP - I had a strong feeling that something triggered the poem. In your case it was the continued abuse/inequality of women where you live. Whatever the case, run with it. I'd focus on the acid attacks or something else indicating violence toward women speaking out. Focus on one woman. Don't speak in general terms. Present this with "in your face/fresh" imagery.

You can concentrate on a woman speaking out or a woman trying to conform to impossible standards.

Luce

[David]

Yes, Ian's take on it was mine as well, but I greatly admire his diligence in setting it out, unlike my much more impressionistic remark.

I think the poem is pretty strong (but interestingly, it seems, quite easily misread).

Cheers

David

[k-j]

I'm another who liked it on first read and was surprised by some of the comments. I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier.

You're missing a preposition after "walk" e.g. on, upon, across etc.

Poem really begins at line 7 and you could consider losing the first 6 lines.

The repetitions and rhythm give the poem drive and power.

"Tear-stained Kleenex" is rather a mawkish image?

I think you should be more forthright about the acid (which I did understand on first reading).

And I thought the ending was very strong, a very strong rebuttal of the cant about gender equality.

A good poem and not an easy subject.

[Boat]

Then I think a thumbs up to you too, David, for understanding this one where I was lost.

Seems obvious now.

[Firebird]

I understood the irony and sarcasm intended, and liked the natural rhymes and rhythms of the piece, but just think there's too many generic ideas here about gender to keep me interested. I do like k-j's suggestion though of starting the poem on line seven.

Cheers,

Tristan

[Pauline]

Hi HWP.

Then I think a thumbs up to you too, David, for understanding this one where I was lost.

Ditto.

Seems obvious now.

Not to me.
The poem I read was nothing at all like the response you gave HWP.

Your response to the comments, now THAT'S the poem.
I don't mean that literally, but it has undercurrents of passion, anger, strength........
and the message is clear.
Now if you could channel those emotions,
become THAT girl,
and spit in the face of the discriminators, rapists, oppressors,
then that would be a mighty poem.
Find your voice.
Not only would it be a great read, I think it will give you a strength,
an enpowerment.

You've got me stirred up again HWP
and this time I'm on your side.

Change the title and take me to India,

Take me there too.
Good luck with your revision.
I look forward to reading it.

[Moth]

Reading this I did find myself thinking that this must be about a society where women really are treated as second class citizens because had I thought you were describing what goes on in the West I would have had a similar reaction to Pauline. The only thing which I don't understand and which confuses your message is this "ladies... with a big mouth." Doesn't this make then make the poet unsympathetic?

[k-j]

The only thing which I don't understand and which confuses your message is this "ladies... with a big mouth." Doesn't this make then make the poet unsympathetic?

I read that as ironic. Appropriating the words of the misogynistic society.

I don't think you need to "Indianise" the poem. Although not so pervasive in Western societies, most if not all of the issues/attitudes you describe still apply to some extent.

[Moth]

to a very small extent which tends to be blown out of all proportion. The majority of men (the silent majority - and that's the thing) are actually more than fair towards their womenfolk and all too often it's them who get the raw deal, so take India out of the equation and this would simply read as a very outdated feminist rant.

[Halfwrittenpoem]

Thanks to everyone for their ever helpful suggestions. There will hopefully be revision of this piece soon as it's a topic I feel too strongly about.
JJ- I will surely take your idea of incorporating more Indian elements into the poem on board. I was earlier skeptical because I realized a lot of cultural references would be missed by most readers.
Luce- The basic idea did start of as a single woman's rant, but along the way I realized that what irked me the most was the media's way of handling sensitive news of crimes against women. It lacked empathy, was filled with biased opinions and political intrigue. Hence, I chose to write the rant in an ironic and sarcastic manner, devoid of any sympathy or sensitivity. It's why this poem is being received in so many different ways and I'd like it to remain this way.
K-j and Tristan- I realize the first six lines don't work well with the rest of the poem and I plan to scrape them off.
Regards,
HWP.

[bodkin]

Thanks to everyone for their ever helpful suggestions. There will hopefully be revision of this piece soon as it's a topic I feel too strongly about.
JJ- I will surely take your idea of incorporating more Indian elements into the poem on board. I was earlier skeptical because I realized a lot of cultural references would be missed by most readers.
Luce- The basic idea did start of as a single woman's rant, but along the way I realized that what irked me the most was the media's way of handling sensitive news of crimes against women. It lacked empathy, was filled with biased opinions and political intrigue. Hence, I chose to write the rant in an ironic and sarcastic manner, devoid of any sympathy or sensitivity. It's why this poem is being received in so many different ways and I'd like it to remain this way.
K-j and Tristan- I realize the first six lines don't work well with the rest of the poem and I plan to scrape them off.
Regards,
HWP.

With this first version, I was able to absorb this in a very cross cultural manner. India did not occur to me, but I was able to easily identify places where each thing you mentioned was a problem. I wasn't aware of the high level of acid attacks in India but I was aware of it happening rarely in other places. (To my mind this is _evil_ and I hope it can be addressed before very long.) Anyway my point is that I think this can work either tightly tied to India, or else set more broadly in "Anyland". Although being specifically in India would help you pull in detail.

So, what I am getting at is the connection between my earlier reply and these later observations... Various angles have come up:
cultural - tie it in specifically to india
personal - you feel strongly about it
character - you could put the words into the mouth of somebody, such as a young woman
media - you pulled this out as a particular point that strikes you

If we take all those in the context of the general points which are "show don't tell" and "use specifics not generalities" (these two are often pretty inseparable...) then to my mind your decision here is to pick *some* of the above angles and use them to build a up-close and visceral experience from them:

e.g. you could go with personal + media and show yourself reacting to the news, maybe you're in some situation which contrasts with what's on the radio... or maybe your trying to read the paper with some more fortunate girl children playing beside you

OR you could go character + media and have some other character (most obviously a young girl, but not the only approach) in a similar situation

And I think how specific to India you make it can almost be chosen separately. e.g. it will change the environmental and cultural details that you insert, but it needn't have much of an impact on the actions or the characters. Not unless you come up with some character who could only exist in India...

Looking forward to hearing more on this,

Ian

[Halfwrittenpoem]

Ian,
Thanks for the great suggestions. Will surely use them while revising
Regards,
hwp.

[ManOfWar]

this poem had some really good parts

but between that it became boring,

because you used long ago feminist culture that has moved on,

it was a poor write, but don't let me get you down

have a look at the way ray or david write

they produce some very lovely element to their poetry