.

[Arcadian]

...

[camus]

A little harsh I thought, much to ask from a mere aspirant?

Your surreal examples of bizarre things that happen right next to each other: lend themselves more to other arts than poetry, just an opinion of course.

There are certainly some lessons in there I should aspire to.

Lets see how wrong I am!

cheers
Kris

[Minstrel]

I don't for one minute think this is how you would speak to or seek to inspire any form of aspirant Arco.
That said, as a stepping out from yourself into a different, and almost alien type of character I think its really quite excellent/ skillful, and with some great and unusual images.

'a thin stream of sugar dropped into a tigers eyeball'

'a frog burps a shiny platinum marble'

'a island continent formed of green volacanic glass'

but why the Lewis Carrol image? are the other images already known? or was that deliberate?

Still interested?.....can't help liking that.

Thing is, I probably agree with what you are saying, and the way you've said it. Brutal as it may be.


Cool.

[Arcadian]

no , you are right camus , spot on

arco

[camus]

I'll get me coat.

I did wonder whether the "N's" (don't you just hate that!) voice was yours or not, sorry to have doubted you!

cheers
Kris

[Arcadian]

my apologies to all

I posted the wrong poem to be reviewed -- it should of been " One Cosmic Day" , instead of "The Artistic Aspirant"

sorry folks
arco

[kozmikdave]

I might have cut my losses on the last one and left it there to think about itself. Posting the new poem in place of the old makes no sense at all as the comments refer to different lines and thoughts. You can't really leave the comments from the previous ones because it makes the previous respondents look pretty stupid as well. If you don't want it to remain, you can ask to have it removed along with all the comments and start again with the new poem in its own thread.

Anyway, for what its worth, the writing was clever but IMO, overdone, from a Kozmik point of view, that is. By the time I got to "comet" I was hoping it was about to end - a kind of death by analogy. But you know me, Arco, just a simple man with a simple mind.

Cheers
Dave

[Arcadian]

hey Kozmik

am I to thank you for the administrivia ? - I said Sorry, cosmic debris does happen, so what else do you want ? -- blood ?

being a simple man has nothing to do with critiquing, which brings me to my point
why is it over the top ?, and no ! it is not an analogy but a contrast, between well known phenomena and a well known cultural event, so what theory did I use to articulate my ideas in the text ? - did it work ?, I personally think I used the right model and the fit is nice, so I await your well reasoned argument if you beg to differ

all you provided in your critique ( if I can call it that) was an opinion ( we don't care if you are simple man - you are here in this workshop to analyse the text, with pertinent comments or suggestions or deconstructions so let me help you with a reference ( you do want to advance don't you ? - if not why are you here ??? )

have you read the grand narrative of Marx ? - the essence of critical theory ?

"You can analyse and form value judgements on any cultural phenomenon: litereature, art , music, political systems, sport etc"

if you have, then use some theory ( explain your choice ) to analyse the cultural artefact and the context presented

lift yer game moderator and stop wasting our time with bar room chatter

Arco

[Minstrel]

I think you are selling Dave very short here Nicholas. He's one of, if not the hardest working moderator on here. They get little enough thanks as it is without being lambasted by respected posters.
One of their jobs, I think, is to ensure the threads are readable/ understandable to anyone browsing the site. This one now isn't, surely you can see that.
Besides, the poem deserves its own thread.

' Stop wasting our time with bar room chatter ' entirely agree with that.

Back to the poem.

' The virginian slim
back burned in an afterglow
behind a well known gaseous nebulae '...................Does this mean she's farted?

Now where's me pint?

[cameron]

Well said Minst.

As an ex-moderator yourself, arco, I would have hoped for a greater degree of understanding.

Dave - you work as a mod (on PG) is much appreciated. Hope this sort of thing doesn't put you off.

Cheers
Cam

[kozmikdave]

Ouch!!!

all you provided in your critique ( if I can call it that) was an opinion

IMO means "In my opinion"

you are here in this workshop to analyse the text, with pertinent comments or suggestions or deconstructions

Sorry, didn't read the contract. So I can analyse but not express a gut reaction.

you do want to advance don't you ?

Not to this level of self-gratifying bullshit!

if not why are you here ???

Ahh, the age old question....

Arco, you seem aggitated. I reacted as much to the fact that you had done something really dumb. I'm sorry if it hurt your pride. Completely turning a thread on its head by saying you posted the wrong poem, and then replacing it with a completely different poem, is confusing and thoughtless. The thread that follows a poem is not random, it becomes a reference for later readers.

Your attack on me is OK mate, I'm used to dealing with pubescent teenagers and they do that all the time so I won't take it personally.

My comment probably would have been different if I'd come across it with no context. I'd have tried to nut it out a bit more. But it did come with context....

Cheers
Dave

[Arcadian]

ha!

you can talk Mr Cam!;

Mr invisible himself that rarely make crits -- the only thing you do with panache is post 'almost' all of camus poems on the feature poem section offering no explanation what criteria you used for your selection ( I must say half the time it is plagiarised ideas from forum members stuff anyway ! hint, hint, nudge, nudge)

it begs the question are you his brothers keeper ?, perhaps you can call your site "Camus Poets Graves" and save us all the trouble ( perhaps there is a camus poets grave chapbook to be marketed soon by you ? )

stop being hypocritical and autocratric and lets see more stuff from you Cam, as a site owner, lead by example


now where's me pint

Arco

[camus]

I must say half the time it is plagiarised ideas from forum members stuff anyway !

If that is refering to me Arco? - if so then please give examples of plagiarism.

If I ever plagiarise, it is from song lyrics, I make no bones about that, but never ever from other forum members stuff.

You really have a bug up your ass don't you.

I take back my comment "sorry to have doubted you!" I guess it was your real voice!

You are turning out to be a real nasty piece of work!

Also "'almost' all of camus poems" - that's bollocks, he hasn't posted nearly enough, I have some little crackers that were tragically overlooked!

I suggest moving on up to everypoet, you'd fit in well there.

[Arcadian]

I realise criticism is a two edged sword camus,

and Im sorry If I hurt your feelings , but how often have we seen you borrow titles for your opening poem from others (why don't you simply call them something else and you yourself has said, you are starved for ideas sometimes -- it would be good to acknowledge that from time to time -- thats all camus, nothing more or nothing less -- happier now ?)

(so don't ask me to list them , you are intelligent enough to scour pg posts and see for yourself , if you are so schocked)

besides criticism wasn't directed at you, at Cam's practices mainly, which can hardly be called objective

nastiness was not the intention; mere observation. Are we suppose to shudder and not raise issues or concerns as we see them ?

[camus]

happier now ?

No I'm not, you accused me of plagiarism, please give examples. I have no idea to what you are referring?

My feelings are of no consequence, your accusations are.

"besides criticism wasn't directed at you, at Cam's practices mainly, which can hardly be called objective"

Have you browsed the rest of the website? that's what Cam does. Being in the game I presumed you realised what is involved in the upkeep of a website of this stature? This isn't just a forum!

Cam can talk for himself, more eloquently, but it seems you just don't understand the dynamics Arco.

[cameron]

Arco,

You obviously haven't looked at "Featured Poems" recently. There are 25 poems on the first page - which break down as follows:

3 camus
3 barrie
3 david
2 kj
2 ccvulture
2 kim
2 keith

etc etc

Hardly the "camus show".

Cheers
Cam

[Arcadian]

Sir Cameroon

my count is 11 out of 61 camus poems "featured" (pages 1 to 3 ), out of a total 576 who are forum members who submit posts -- pretty high percentage or bias I would say, again an observation, numbers do not lie -- in the end who cares, but why have you chosen these ? - you offer no explanation or critique.

Is it a Cam whim ? like admiring Ted Hughes and saying he is brilliant ? or some mystery that you recognise as worthy ?

If you like camus stuff so much, create a separate page ( I have no problem with that )- idolise him if you like, but don't try and sound neutral in this forum , because you are obviously not.

transparency and clarity for all forum members too much to ask ?

[camus]

Arco,

Your poetic best is in the explanation of your poems, otherwise, it's often pompous crap.

Mine is often childish rubbish, I accept that, I suggest you do the same.

[Bombadil]

I see a very simple solution really. Put more of my shit (or Arco's) in the Feature.


Herr Arco,

If I remember correctly, when you quitted your position as moderator, you removed your entire body of work from the site. Now, I've had a few, so I might not be spot on here, but I think that might have applied to your Features as well.

I understand rubbing each other wrong now and again. Can't we all just get along?

Apart from that, I have nothing to offer.

Cheers,

Keith

Holy shit. I've become pseud.

[camus]

Keith I like your Pseud impression, i guess it's now required.

That said this is paranoid nonsense.

I must say half the time it is plagiarised ideas from forum members stuff anyway

Arco I'll ask one last time to give me examples of MY plagiarism.

Otherwise stop pissing and moaning and start posting some poems.

[Arcadian]

AS, Camus, you are right, I think I'll have a few, then start posting some more ( ..I will scale down the pomposity and see where this takes me - LOL )

camus I meant plagiarised title, themes etc ( my title: "sand castle" ) your title "sand castles", there have been others, over the years, but as you say no moaning more posting...fair enough

imagine this you get an idea pen down a "pompous" poem that sounds childish or ridiculous ( are poem thats meant to capture feelings ?) and then you see the same title else where in the forum ? how do you feel ? -- this is my point -- as I never bagged your poetry Camus ( as there is one outstanding one in my opinion that was never featured )

Arco

[camus]

( my title: "( my title: "sand castle" ) your title "sand castles"," ) your title "sand castles",

Ahhhhhhhhh at last the paranoid burial mound.

For fucks sake, I live in a coastal town, sand is it's trade, I stroll on it every other day, I write poems about it, it's in my shoes at this very moment.

I can't even recall your poem "sand castle"

Game over.

[Bombadil]

"over the years"

Now, if that's not the best testimony to the site, I don't know what is.


We have years people, years.


I've had enough liquor to get sentimental. Bugger.

[camus]

Indeed,

I just rambled on to find out what I had been plagiarising, now I know.

Get some sleep Arco, I guess my latest Our Cosmic Way will have to be scrubbed!

Peace.
Kris

[pseud]

Part A - Critiquing the Poem.

I would start with the girl and then transform her into something Cosmic, not the other way around. I got through 3/4 of the poem with no clue as to what this poem was refering to. Maybe that was on purpose, maybe not, but the girl/cosmos thing made me feel like I didn't know the girl at all. It was the outside of her being described, not the inside. Again, could just be my preferences talking.

One other thing:

not saying any word

- redundant line, in my opinion, when followed by:

(but expressing without words):

(without is established twice)

------------------------
Part B - Kicking the Dead Horse. Again.

Why this militant attitude? By all means, get off your soap box! It's very simple really: Kris is a good and prolific writer. That explains the ratio of poets : features. Do I think Kris is the only good writer on this board? Of course not, but his features are deserving. Cameron may not be able to say it and still look even-handed (what a clever debate trick you've employed, friend), but I will.

I suppose that gets to the purpose of the feature: we can't feature all good poems. It's just not possible. We also can't worry too much about featuring someone too many times. If we do, the emphasis is taken off good work and placed on something else.

Besides, the MODs as a group have a role in the choosing and not just Cam individually, you of all people should know this.

And while we're at it, lay off Cameron for his "silence" too. Why should we care? Maybe he has a busy life! Maybe he writes other stuff (plays, novels, scripts, etc.,) and just gets sick of words someimes! Maybe the time spent on here is devoted to making sure the site doesn't crash and there aren't any needless fights (i.e., this). Or maybe he spends a lot of time perfecting the little bit he does write.

"lift yer game (ex-)moderator and stop wasting our time with bar room chatter"!

- Caleb

PS: Keith, I am so proud of you.