Glorious Night

[Kilravock]

I dont use punctuation in my poems; I fell that a poem, like a thought, is rough and full of personal passion; passion isnt punctuated!

O night
Falling down into the
Abyss of the soul
Glorious night
The twist of life’s
Symphony projected
Come bear the one
Who dwells in your
Presence bring me
To the one Holy Light
Fall upon me in
Rapturous fervor
Lift me up in your
Sun- longed passion
Hide me with the One from whom
All mercy abides
Soothe the aching pain
Of weary toil and
Dwell O prophet with me
Until the morning
When the light of yonder glory
Is the only light I wish to see

[Wabznasm]

Welcome to the forum.

And, er, thanks for that little manifesto there.

I'll comment on this later, but for now I just want to let you know that it's usually a given for a new member (or any poem posting member) to provide a few critiques before endeavouring to ask for some in reply to their own poem. It keeps the snowball rolling. We don't want it to melt now, do we?

Welcome once again.
Dave

[barrie]

Passion conveyed to others by poetry uses written language - Written language needs punctuation to convey the various subtleties that words alone can't usually manage. The passion of Shakespeare, Dylan Thomas, Thomas Hardy and many others is not dampened by punctuation.

Of course there are poets who don't punctuate, but they don't write hymns.

SWEET BEING -----Paul Hunter

The deer will eat
an apple tree clean to the ground
in its leafy infancy
and should it reach again
for a while strip its skin
grind to nothing its twigs
as a delicacy

but amid confused abundance
should one grow
out of reach overlooked
its truck gets unpalatable
rough
the sweet being
once all one
no longer evident
under scarred heavy bark
the sweet being
sensed now as longing overhead
as flower and fruit

Why not try checking your spellings before you post - take a bit of time. And as Wab says - comment on the works of others - give and take.

Barrie

[Kilravock]

I rarely critique others poetry, I do not feel that I can provide them with appropriate help without the potential of hurting others feelings.

To the other man: puctuation takes away the free movement of the poem from the mind of the writer to the mind of the reader by making it pass through channels that do not add to the point of the poem. I was considering adding some punctuation, but since I wrote the poem in a limited amount of time, I stuck by my own philosophy on punctuation. I can conceed that many great poets did make great use of punctuation without damaging the dramatic effect; so I am open to the use of punctuation, and have experimented with puncuation a little bit.

[Wabznasm]

Kr,

Sorry to hjack your thread a little - I WILL comment on this soon... moving out at the moment though.

Sadly, critiquing others is the rule of the forum. New posters (and old posters) are obliged to comment on others before posting anything themselves.
See viewtopic.php?t=64

As for hurting our feelings: don't worry. We're all thicked skinned and I'm sure we can all take it.

As for punctuation.

I find this sentence striking: so I am open to the use of punctuation, and have experimented with puncuation a little bit. - usually writers become utterly familiar with punctuation and experiment with the lack of it. You can't fully experiment something (with 100% success) without knowing the system inside out. Otherwise, there's nothing to experiment with. It, comparatively, becomes the norm which it shouldn't be.

Anyway don't worry - I'll comment on this in a few days (it would be nice if you critiqued a few other writers here first though).

Dave

[oranggunung]

Kilravock


I dont use punctuation in my poems

Aha! Caught you out! There are hyphens in this one.


I rarely critique others poetry

Would you like them to critique yours?


I wrote the poem in a limited amount of time

Is this fair to your audience? If they are making an effort to read, assess, understand, or even enjoy your work, shouldn’t you invest a little more time in the product?

og

[twoleftfeet]

I thought, initially, that this was Bible-thumping schmaltz, but having read it a few times, I think it is quite clever.

Please get your act together with spelling and punctuation (lame excuses
are not acceptable) if you want people to bother reading your stuff.

Geoff

[Kilravock]

Well, I thank everyone for their intrest. I will start Criticizing everyone's poetry. I will not be rude though. I do apologize for writing the poem in a short time, I was at work. That is not a lame excuse! I do like the man who stated that at first it was a bible-thumping rant, I couldn't be more pleased. Swedenborg said that when a man wrote from a religious perspective and his readers can tell that it is religious he has accomplished his goal. I am not a Swedenborgian, but it is a nice thought anyway. Hyphens are not punctuations-Jacob Grimm-they are aides for pronunciation. I mispoke when i was talking about my former use of punctuation; I have tried it several times, but found it to dampen the expereince, so I stopped. I will post one of my punctuated poems at a latter date.[/u]

[kozmikdave]

Gidday

You've posted in "Experienced" so I assume you can take a bit of criticism. Despite all the excuses as to lack of punctuation and appalling spelling, it is still difficult to read and you have had time to reply to the crits, but not time to press the edit button and fix up the mistakes. We can all make mistakes, but usually pride ourselves with fixing glaring errors.

Here's a tip: Try writing it in your word processor first and don't ignore all the green and red wiggly lines under the words and phrases. They are there to tell you something. Just cut and paste your final draft into the editing screen on this site. Easy really.

Unlike Geoff, I can't find too much in this apart from a religious rant. It is not at all clear what it is you are trying to say, mainly due to the lack of punctuation and the misspelling. For example, does "prescence" mean "prescience", "presence", or something else? The language used makes it sound too much like a psalm without much substance for me. Hey, prove me wrong.

Oh, BTW, welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Dave

[thoke]

Urm, I wouldn't call it a 'rant' exactly. But it is overdramatic, and the archaic language makes it seem like you're focusing too much on making it look like a good poem, rather than actually be a good poem. I think you should try and find your own voice.

Plus, I just can't relate to the religious theme at all. There's nothing for me here. It's not your fault that I'm an atheist, so maybe you can't be blamed. But I wouldn't normally discredit a poem just because it has religious overtones, so I think the real problem is that this is a bad religious poem. Sorry.

Ben

[twoleftfeet]

At the risk of being wrong - this is what I think it is about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul

Geoff
btw I never said "rant"

[juliadebeauvoir]

BTW,I think the word was 'schmaltz'...which I believe is also a word for Goose fat... in the event that you would want useless information!

Here's my two cents:
I could go on and on about structure, meter, and other things but I won't. The real underlying problem with this piece is that it reads like a grocery list.
I have no problem with meaningful, religious poetry. I have written some myself. But lines such as, " Dwell O prophet with me" are very sterile and have very little impact.

Kind of like when someone reads a prayer out loud for a group of people from a piece of paper! I think the only result is that the people around you think you are 'super religious'. I don't think God is impressed at all. These things should come from the heart.

I say go back to the drawing board and really put down what you feel about your relationship with God and how it impacts your life. Please try to punctuate. There is still plenty of passion even if it is punctuated.
I suggest you study old hymns such as "Amazing Grace"--lovely to read and to sing.

Cheers,
Kimberly

[Kilravock]

I am shocked that no one attempted to tell me their opinion of what the poem means; which anyone with half a nano of Christian theology could get. The poem is a representation of the way in which GOD paradoxically interacts with man. Did not anyone wonder why the prophet that shows GOD happens to be darkness? And what is this darkness in which the Pilgrims dwell? Sin and humanity. And it is paradoxical in the fact that we need to acknowledge the darkness in order to respond to the light. So the poem is really just an exegesis of the process of salvation. And to the one who questioned the sincerity of my poem I say this: I don't write poetry trying to make it great; I write poetry in order to express the things that can only be expressed through poetry, the good, the bad and the ugly. This is one of my favorite meditations, the theodicy of existence, and the intense longing of the individual for the GOD behind the darkness. So if my poem appears UN truthful then I am stumped for nothing can be more realistically me. I did appreciate the man who said it reminded him of "The Dark Night OF the Soul"; St.John of the Cross truly exhibits poetic theology, and his writing has pushed me from the "slough of Despond" many times. I am truly indebted to him. To the atheist, wake up!!! Poetry is a wonderful exhibition of Divine creativity; quit playing around!

[madawc]

I hope you are not thinking of coming along with collection plate!

When the light of yonder glory
Is the only light I wish to see

I fear that it has blinded you pilgrim.

Madawc

[thoke]

And to the one who questioned the sincerity of my poem I say this: I don't write poetry trying to make it great; I write poetry in order to express the things that can only be expressed through poetry, the good, the bad and the ugly.

It's all very well saying that, but I'm afraid it just doesn't come across in the poem. Your sincerity is lost amongst all the archaisms, in my opinion. I don't necessarily doubt your sincerity - I doubt your ability to express it in the form of a poem.

To the atheist, wake up!!! Poetry is a wonderful exhibition of Divine creativity; quit playing around!

Poetry is just an exhibition of the creativity of poets.

[Kilravock]

Nonsensw! Where do you think human creativity comes from! Human creativity is simply the reflection of Divine Creativity. I would think that anyone would accomplish that. As for my ability as a poet, your oppinion is appreciated; but of little consequence. I like archaism, and believe it to be wonderful. I use it a lot. lol.

[thoke]

Human creativity comes from humans.

Fair enough to the second thing.

Ben

[Dagdason]

I see that you are passionate about your beliefs and believe that you are passionate about your poem, however I would answer your stipulation about puncuation with this simple thought.

Even the most profound of spiritual writings are puncuated, thus giving the devotee the basis for their expression of faith. Otherwise faith would be a pointless slathering of emotions with no solid foundation. Even a river is puncuated with objects that give it's travels meaning and beauty.

Belief in God must have meaning apart from raw unfettered attachment or devotion. Puncuation gives meaning to the written word as works give meaning to faith.

True profound belief in God is puncuated by divine inspiration, divine moments of action (hence the divinity of Christ through self-sacrifice and unconditional forgiveness and love, Buddha's willingness to forgo earthly pleasures to become closer to the Divine), not just unrelenting devotion.

As to critiquing your poem, I would ask you to critique here for us. Give us your observations on its content; since I doubt you would insult yourself, you should fare well through your own observations and as a body we would surely give pause to you ideas on it.

[Incusblack]

First, I'm amazed at all the hostility to a religiously motivated work. I never looked to see if it was just one hater or if is the general atmosphere of the forum. (speaking of which, hello everyone)

As for the poem itself, the content is reminiscient of George Herbert--who is great at the sort of theme. Much more thought should be put into the structure though. Nothing wrong with archaisms if you are seeking to conjure up a sense of the ancient. Robert Fitzgerald's English translation of Virgil's Aeneid does just that.
One more comment on punctuation. You can't escape it. The poem is punctuated--you've just left us to guess how it is. Truth is you had some proper way for it to be read in your mind. We, unfortunately, simply have not been let in on the secret. Inc.

[pseud]

K -

I'm no stranger to Christianity but I have to admit didn't get much from this either. Nothing wrong with a religiously-motivated poem, at all, but the archaisms and religious cliches cloud this one a little too much I think.

O night, Glorious night... - I think of Cartman from South Park singing Oh Holy Night.... when I read these lines - O night divine...I'm sorry but it's just where my mind goes...

Abyss of the soul - these are vague words - do you think of the soul as a big blob of nothingness? That is how it comes across.

Rapturous fervor - it would be better to demonstrate this fervor instead of just mentioning the words. And what is a "sun-longed passion?"

Hide me with the One from whom
All mercy abides - How do you abide from something? I've heard of abiding in but not abiding from.

Words like "abide" and "dwell" and "yonder" also tend to make this poem seem old fashioned...not that old fashioned is inherently wrong but consider that when the hymn writers or Shakespeare or Herbert or Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote poetry on religious themes, these words were common place. It would be much more natural to use the language of this day, in my opinion.

Even though I'm negative about this poem, it'd be nice to see you keep at it and keep posting, maybe even try your hand at a few critiques. These are just my opinions.

- Caleb

[Incusblack]

I agree with Pseud on everything but:

"Shakespeare or Herbert or Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote poetry on religious themes, these words were common place. It would be much more natural to use the language of this day, in my opinion."

One does want to capture a natural voice, but not necessarily a common one. Four hundred years ago they did not speak the same way in common talk as they did in their poetry. The language was more natural to them only because they were much more accustomed to a hierarchy of speech, occasion, and purpose which we tend now to reject. In other words they were using "high" talk in much of their literature because they thought it was appropriate to their purpose. We egalitarian westerners like to make everything common and so have lost a taste for glorified or formal speech.

"Rapturous fervor - it would be better to demonstrate this fervor instead of just mentioning the words."

I do agree 100% that a poet should make us feel that something is sublime, not just tell us its sublime. Poetry is not a book report. Inc.

[Rena Hands]

Wow! What an intriguing submission. I have read through a few of the comments/suggestions of other writers to this site and must side with those who state that some punctuation is not harmful to poetry. Neither is the correct spelling.

I realize that I am very, very new to the site but you contradicted yourself with this line…

The twist of life’s
Symphony projected

You used a much needed (’).