This is turning out longer than I expected. It's not finished (yet), but I seem to have got stuck. If anyone can help to jump start me, I'd be grateful.
When I walked from Batcombe to Yarlington,
the sun came too,
walking always at my right hand.
"I'm going south," I said,
"as far as I can go!"
Somerset looked sceptical,
Dorset was a green improbable haze.
"I will go with you," he said,
"because a sweet lady wishes it."
On Bruton's famous high street,
where gently flows the Brue,
there is an opening
between an almshouse and a travel agent.
An unfrequented path climbs swiftly
past outhouses and orchards
to a colloquy of fields and sky,
a sacred stamping ground of sheep.
Here on May mornings, mad for mirth,
they foot it featly,
tracing the secret patterns of the tribe,
the mysteries of nettle, dock and thistle.
Don't go there then.
The baacchanal is heard
nervously
at Lamyatt.
In Wyke Champflower
I saw no sign of Champfleurs; were
they grands seigneurs,
chevaliers preux,
honnettes hommes
qui craignaient Dieu,
or some sort of ragamuffin
rootless second sons,
who conquered Saxon England
in a fit of bloody-mindedness?
They came, they saw, they settled down.
The spit of land they berthed their boat at,
a local prominence now not
to be distinguished from the fertile plain -
it is become, like them,
good English soil.
Castle Cary's chi-chi cheese shops
and picturesque duck pond
did not detain me long.
From a hill above the town
Somerset is spread out like a story book:
Glastonbury and beyond,
the marches of Elfland.
From Batcombe to Yarlington
Wow.
Firstly - I think you have the bones of something really good here - depending on where you take it and how it develops.
I can't offer much help there - and my knowledge of the geography of the area isn't good enough to offer suggestions either - although if there are any standing stones in the general vicinity then they would probaby work in well.
When I walked from Batcombe to Yarlington,
the sun came too,
I like the idea of "the sun came too", but to my ear, the line seems too short? I would recommend either changing the comma to a hyphen, and adding to that idea in the next line, or adding something into the second line, or changing the first two lines in some way eg.
Batcombe to Yarlington, I walked
the sun following in step
now obviously my example isn't exactly well thought out - but hopefully you get the gist of what I mean?
I like the rest of that stanza - although I'm a bit unsure about "because a sweet lady wishes it" - it just sounds so old fashioned.
a sacred stamping ground of sheep. would this be better as - to sheep - or - for sheep?
they foot it featly,
tracing the secret patterns of the tribe,
the mysteries of nettle, dock and thistle.
Don't go there then. I really like this bit, it reminds me of childhood days negotiating fields, and I think the use of "featly" is great.
My french has long ceased to be good enough to comment on that section.
The poem then drifts too much at the so far last stanza - I don't get "chi chi" cheese shops - but this could be a local thing. I like the idea of Somerset spread out, although I think you could pick up on a touch of anthropomorphism to echo the first stanza, and I like the idea of Elfland.
An element of story would be good - why the journey - what is gained or lost. I like the sense of cultural history you currently have, particularly in the third stanza - and that could be an element to pick up on and develop - finishing with some very modern environment?
who conquered Saxon England
in a fit of bloody-mindedness? These lines in particular have a great emphasis which I think will work well with any reader.
I hope this helps?
Firstly - I think you have the bones of something really good here - depending on where you take it and how it develops.
I can't offer much help there - and my knowledge of the geography of the area isn't good enough to offer suggestions either - although if there are any standing stones in the general vicinity then they would probaby work in well.
When I walked from Batcombe to Yarlington,
the sun came too,
I like the idea of "the sun came too", but to my ear, the line seems too short? I would recommend either changing the comma to a hyphen, and adding to that idea in the next line, or adding something into the second line, or changing the first two lines in some way eg.
Batcombe to Yarlington, I walked
the sun following in step
now obviously my example isn't exactly well thought out - but hopefully you get the gist of what I mean?
I like the rest of that stanza - although I'm a bit unsure about "because a sweet lady wishes it" - it just sounds so old fashioned.
a sacred stamping ground of sheep. would this be better as - to sheep - or - for sheep?
they foot it featly,
tracing the secret patterns of the tribe,
the mysteries of nettle, dock and thistle.
Don't go there then. I really like this bit, it reminds me of childhood days negotiating fields, and I think the use of "featly" is great.
My french has long ceased to be good enough to comment on that section.
The poem then drifts too much at the so far last stanza - I don't get "chi chi" cheese shops - but this could be a local thing. I like the idea of Somerset spread out, although I think you could pick up on a touch of anthropomorphism to echo the first stanza, and I like the idea of Elfland.
An element of story would be good - why the journey - what is gained or lost. I like the sense of cultural history you currently have, particularly in the third stanza - and that could be an element to pick up on and develop - finishing with some very modern environment?
who conquered Saxon England
in a fit of bloody-mindedness? These lines in particular have a great emphasis which I think will work well with any reader.
I hope this helps?
Lexi
Is this a sort extension of your topic in Poetry Discussion on Edward Thomas and Englishness?
Where do you go from Yarlington? South to the coast, maybe? Cerne Abbas, Hardy's Wessex? You've plenty of good material to work on from down there. There always the danger of overdoing it, but if its written in this light style, it should prove quite enjoyable. I do agree that it isn't finished, this is just a taster.
I wasn't too keen on all the French though - maybe it's a natural aversion to Normans. I know they're a very important part of our history, but anything in French other than place names isn't really needed.
I'm not really sure about the first verse, because it would start quite strongly with -
On Bruton's famous high street,
I'm also puzzled by your walk only taking place in the afternoon and evenings.
the sun came too,
walking always at my right hand.
If you walked south before noon then the sun would be your left. Am I missing something significant here?
Apart from that, I like it and I would really like to see a much longer work. You've started something here and you really need to finish - we wait.
nice one
Barrie
I forgot to mention it - Maiden Castle just outside Dorchester - that must be worth a mention.
Where do you go from Yarlington? South to the coast, maybe? Cerne Abbas, Hardy's Wessex? You've plenty of good material to work on from down there. There always the danger of overdoing it, but if its written in this light style, it should prove quite enjoyable. I do agree that it isn't finished, this is just a taster.
I wasn't too keen on all the French though - maybe it's a natural aversion to Normans. I know they're a very important part of our history, but anything in French other than place names isn't really needed.
I'm not really sure about the first verse, because it would start quite strongly with -
On Bruton's famous high street,
I'm also puzzled by your walk only taking place in the afternoon and evenings.
the sun came too,
walking always at my right hand.
If you walked south before noon then the sun would be your left. Am I missing something significant here?
Apart from that, I like it and I would really like to see a much longer work. You've started something here and you really need to finish - we wait.
nice one
Barrie
I forgot to mention it - Maiden Castle just outside Dorchester - that must be worth a mention.
Last edited by barrie on Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
David
I like the leisurely pace to this and particularly the observations and descriptions in verse 2. I am not entirely sure where you are going and I am not best qualifed to comment on Englishness. However from the perspective of those across the border I think its a very important issue right now particulalry when we have a PM in denial about his nationality and trying to cloak us all in Britishness - whatever that is. Does that come across as a rant
Back to the poem - I like verse one as an opener particularly the Somerset and Dorset lines but not the "sweet lady"
The French section is important if the intention is to explore English history but maybe a bit too much IMO.
Where do you go - my geography of the area is poor but do you explore effects of modern immigrants, protecting the borders against Europe, influence of Arthurian legends are just some thoughts.
Look forward to news from your travels!
Elphin
I like the leisurely pace to this and particularly the observations and descriptions in verse 2. I am not entirely sure where you are going and I am not best qualifed to comment on Englishness. However from the perspective of those across the border I think its a very important issue right now particulalry when we have a PM in denial about his nationality and trying to cloak us all in Britishness - whatever that is. Does that come across as a rant
Back to the poem - I like verse one as an opener particularly the Somerset and Dorset lines but not the "sweet lady"
These lines I have conflicting views on. Lines one and two are very poetic and set up a rhyming line 4 and then it becomes prosaic. Do I like that or not - not sure?David wrote:On Bruton's famous high street,
where gently flows the Brue,
there is an opening
between an almshouse and a travel agent.
The French section is important if the intention is to explore English history but maybe a bit too much IMO.
Where do you go - my geography of the area is poor but do you explore effects of modern immigrants, protecting the borders against Europe, influence of Arthurian legends are just some thoughts.
Look forward to news from your travels!
Elphin
Merlin, thanks. Don't be bashful - any comments or thoughts you have, I'd be happy to hear.
Lexi - standing stones - good idea! Definitely something of that ilk coming up. The sweet lady bit may make more sense at the end - I have an idea about coming round to it again - but apart from that it is just a splendid example of what Dave the Wab calls "wanky literary references". Hurrah for wanky literary references! I love 'em. I do 'em all the time. And this one is very wanky. (Sorry, boys' / lads' language. Bad habit. Must stop it. He started it!)
Re chi-chi cheese shops - have you never been to Castle Cary?
Anyway, good stuff - especially the agonising about of or for or to sheep - this is the very stuff of poetry! It is a help, thanks a lot.
Barrie - Is this a sort extension of your topic in Poetry Discussion on Edward Thomas and Englishness? You bugger, that's exactly what it is. I've got Englishness on the brain at the moment.
Ah, the French ... it's just a fun rhyming bit, really. Well I had fun - I've got five "eur" sounds. Is that un oeuf? Is it more than un oeuf? I still like it.
I'm afraid it's an actual day's walk, and I didn't get beyond Yarlington, although I took a circuitous route to it. I won't get to Cerne Abbas, sadly, nor to Maiden Castle, but I did get to Cadbury Castle (Arthur!), so watch this excavation.
I'm also puzzled by your walk only taking place in the afternoon and evenings - d'oh! Now look, I know the sun rises in the east, of course I do. I just forgot. Baffled by geography.
I'm not sure I'll be able to make it much longer - maybe as much again. Will that be okay?
Elph, don't worry about not being English. I'm not either, but does it stop me pontificating about it? Pah! Don't let a little thing like that stop you.
Cheers all
David
Lexi - standing stones - good idea! Definitely something of that ilk coming up. The sweet lady bit may make more sense at the end - I have an idea about coming round to it again - but apart from that it is just a splendid example of what Dave the Wab calls "wanky literary references". Hurrah for wanky literary references! I love 'em. I do 'em all the time. And this one is very wanky. (Sorry, boys' / lads' language. Bad habit. Must stop it. He started it!)
Re chi-chi cheese shops - have you never been to Castle Cary?
Anyway, good stuff - especially the agonising about of or for or to sheep - this is the very stuff of poetry! It is a help, thanks a lot.
Barrie - Is this a sort extension of your topic in Poetry Discussion on Edward Thomas and Englishness? You bugger, that's exactly what it is. I've got Englishness on the brain at the moment.
Ah, the French ... it's just a fun rhyming bit, really. Well I had fun - I've got five "eur" sounds. Is that un oeuf? Is it more than un oeuf? I still like it.
I'm afraid it's an actual day's walk, and I didn't get beyond Yarlington, although I took a circuitous route to it. I won't get to Cerne Abbas, sadly, nor to Maiden Castle, but I did get to Cadbury Castle (Arthur!), so watch this excavation.
I'm also puzzled by your walk only taking place in the afternoon and evenings - d'oh! Now look, I know the sun rises in the east, of course I do. I just forgot. Baffled by geography.
I'm not sure I'll be able to make it much longer - maybe as much again. Will that be okay?
Elph, don't worry about not being English. I'm not either, but does it stop me pontificating about it? Pah! Don't let a little thing like that stop you.
Cheers all
David
Perhaps in 80 years time, when people refer to The Poet's Graves School, they'll be crediting the astute literary term 'wanky literay reference' to us. There might even be critics who insist on the second stanza being the most important.
The poem, yes, very you and very good.
In fact, I've only one crit and that's
mad for mirth,
they foot it featly,
These two offending alliterative moments throw the poem back in time. The rest is consciously aware of what it's doing (in other words, it knows it's not Edward Thomas), but this alliteration is over kill in my opinion. Saying that, I value alliteration about as much as the Dutch value their English tourists, so not a lot.
As for going somewhere, hmmm. A few suggestions:
Perhaps change our expectations of who the narrator is. It could be a tour guide, and this is all postcard friendly stuff.
Put the narrator in the poem, get him/her walking around, some philosophy of whatever. Try and mangle some images, tit about with the odd phrase, and let it lead you.
Turn it into something else. An elegy for someone maybe (as in, suddenly drop a 'You' and see where it takes the poem), or even a nursery rhyme.
Basically, most attacks would be worthy as long as they aren't 'But now it's all gone, decay, machinery, bad politicians, bla bla bla', 'cos we've all heard that before and don't want it to spoil the poem.
I reckon, if you want Englishness, you should pick up some Andrew Motion. I know we all slandered him a bit a while back, but I finished one of his collections recently, and while it wasn't HUGELY impressive, it definitely had a sense of Englishness about it. If you can find the poem Fresh Water online, read it. I think that's a master class in how to turn a descriptive, English poem into something really, really special.
Dave
The poem, yes, very you and very good.
In fact, I've only one crit and that's
mad for mirth,
they foot it featly,
These two offending alliterative moments throw the poem back in time. The rest is consciously aware of what it's doing (in other words, it knows it's not Edward Thomas), but this alliteration is over kill in my opinion. Saying that, I value alliteration about as much as the Dutch value their English tourists, so not a lot.
As for going somewhere, hmmm. A few suggestions:
Perhaps change our expectations of who the narrator is. It could be a tour guide, and this is all postcard friendly stuff.
Put the narrator in the poem, get him/her walking around, some philosophy of whatever. Try and mangle some images, tit about with the odd phrase, and let it lead you.
Turn it into something else. An elegy for someone maybe (as in, suddenly drop a 'You' and see where it takes the poem), or even a nursery rhyme.
Basically, most attacks would be worthy as long as they aren't 'But now it's all gone, decay, machinery, bad politicians, bla bla bla', 'cos we've all heard that before and don't want it to spoil the poem.
I reckon, if you want Englishness, you should pick up some Andrew Motion. I know we all slandered him a bit a while back, but I finished one of his collections recently, and while it wasn't HUGELY impressive, it definitely had a sense of Englishness about it. If you can find the poem Fresh Water online, read it. I think that's a master class in how to turn a descriptive, English poem into something really, really special.
Dave
Thanks Dave, good thoughts as usual, and - what can I say? You've done it again! With "tit about with the odd phrase" you've added another indispensable item to the lexicon of literary criticism. I shall be using that one lots.
As for my alliteration, you're right, it is a throwback, but I kind of wanted that. This is supposed to be my William Langland moment. Wanky, eh! (But foot it featly is Shakey, of course.)
I was hoping for plaaudits for my baacchanal. Where's Geoff when you need him?
Anyway, I still seem to be stuck. Having a breather. I'll get up again in a minute.
Cheers
David
As for my alliteration, you're right, it is a throwback, but I kind of wanted that. This is supposed to be my William Langland moment. Wanky, eh! (But foot it featly is Shakey, of course.)
I was hoping for plaaudits for my baacchanal. Where's Geoff when you need him?
Anyway, I still seem to be stuck. Having a breather. I'll get up again in a minute.
Cheers
David